(03-23-2023, 02:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ok. The point isn't the catch percentage. That's the player/scheme that was ran.
My point is that a TE can come in and be a solid contributor as a rookie, which Gresham was.
Eifert put up 445 yards and 2 TDs at a 65% catch percentage his rookie season.
I think you're worrying too much about whether a rookie TE can contribute, but if they can block well and make a decent amount of catches in the passing game, they'll contribute enough IMO.

I think my question is, who is the Tyler Eifert of this draft class?  If Eifert were in this class I have no issues taking him at #28, but I dont see him in any of these guys?

I said in another post if we do not get at least 4.5 yards per in the running game this year I would see it as a fail since 15 teams was at 4.5 or better. I am in the same boat with sacks if we have 40 sacks or more, I will see that as a fail as well. 40 sacks seem to be the middle of the road hope we can come in closer to 30 with our O-line.

Drafting ahead is nice, like we did with Hill. But you usually only do it if:

1) You don't have holes anywhere else, AND
2) There isn't someone you really like who can help you now on the board.

We have a hole at TE1 at the moment. Maybe RT as well. Maybe CB as well (Chido recovery). And we sure could use pass rush help, inside and outside.

If we are confident in Chido's recovery and Jonah stays, then RR and CB are far less pressing.

I think all this talk about positional value is overblown. Itis one thing if you are picking in the top 10 or top 15. We are picking 28th of 31. Just get a guy who can help, at any spot. We took a stash S last year. No way, organizationally speaking, are we gonna be opposed to taking a starting TE.

(03-23-2023, 02:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think my question is, who is the Tyler Eifert of this draft class?  If Eifert were in this class I have no issues taking him at #28, but I dont see him in any of these guys?

What constitutes "Tyler Eifert" in this case?

Mayer and Washington are 1st round caliber that I would target. Mayer is the safe choice, Washington is the ultimate blocker and high ceiling as a receiver.
Musgrave and Kincaid have the athleticism/speed to succeed as receivers, but I dunno about the blocking chops right out of the gate.
Kraft is very appealing, but there's risk with coming from FCS.
LaPorta showed very well too, but he's coming in at an unideal height at 6'3". I think he'll be fine as a starter though.

(03-23-2023, 02:39 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: bengals are in win now mode. A first round selection on a good blocking TE with 400 yard potential isnt worth the selection IMO

I think Michael Mayer could start as a rookie and give you everything CJ and Hayden did...maybe more. He's already a pretty polished blocker, and outside of Smith-Njigba, there may not be anyone better in this draft at finding ways to get open on a consistent basis. He's a perfect fit for this offense and IMO, would be an upgrade from what we've had.

(03-23-2023, 02:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Watching practice tape... well we all stand corrected.  I guess all those analysts predicting him to go as high as #14 missed that tape... They probably only watched his actual GAME tape that showed him handling multiple 1st Round draft picks over and over in the most talented conference.  But sure, take another guy that refuses to test (we have had so much luck with these) and projected to go lower.  

You just cannot let it go can ya. Both guys are slated to go in the first round or early in the second you act like Dewand is a bum. I actually chose Darnell first and changed my opinion to Dewand in the last week. Are you one of the Ohio State haters?

(03-23-2023, 02:48 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I said in another post if we do not get at least 4.5 yards per in the running game this year I would see it as a fail since 15 teams was at 4.5 or better. I am in the same boat with sacks if we have 40 sacks or more, I will see that as a fail as well. 40 sacks seem to be the middle of the road hope we can come in closer to 30 with our O-line.

Interesting... what exactly are you seeing as a fail?   We only rushed for 3.8 yds this season, still made the AFC title game, not really a fail.   We didn't rush for 4.5 in 2021 and made the SB, definitely not a fail.

I understand that wins come easier with better production, but not sure exactly the "fail" aspect?  I'll take the W's over any specific stats.

(03-23-2023, 02:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think Michael Mayer could start as a rookie and give you everything CJ and Hayden did...maybe more. He's already a pretty polished blocker, and outside of Smith-Njigba, there may not be anyone better in this draft at finding ways to get open on a consistent basis. He's a perfect fit for this offense and IMO, would be an upgrade from what we've had.

I already figure he isnt making it to cincy. But if he's there, he's the guy if you want a TE in round 1

Am absolutely fine if the Bengals go OL in 1st because I scream for it yearly and it usually does not come to fruition.

Yet would add that Jackson Carman dominated Chase Young in college as well, if you're looking for high draft pick tape in college.

Looked pretty damn good in the playoffs as well.

(03-23-2023, 02:53 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I think Michael Mayer could start as a rookie and give you everything CJ and Hayden did...maybe more. He's already a pretty polished blocker, and outside of Smith-Njigba, there may not be anyone better in this draft at finding ways to get open on a consistent basis. He's a perfect fit for this offense and IMO, would be an upgrade from what we've had.

Smith-Njigba, I think if he is sitting there at pick 28, we draft Boyd's replacement and then get a rookie TE in round 2.


It would put us in position to trade/cut Boyd and save a lot of cap space.


But again, if a CB slides, that could also be pick 28.

(03-23-2023, 02:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What constitutes "Tyler Eifert" in this case?

Mayer and Washington are 1st round caliber that I would target. Mayer is the safe choice, Washington is the ultimate blocker and high ceiling as a receiver.
Musgrave and Kincaid have the athleticism/speed to succeed as receivers, but I dunno about the blocking chops right out of the gate.
Kraft is very appealing, but there's risk with coming from FCS.
LaPorta showed very well too, but he's coming in at an unideal height at 6'3". I think he'll be fine as a starter though.

Eifert was a solid blocker and receiver, more athletic than Mayer and a better football player than Washington.  

Washington; "high ceiling as a receiver" where does this come from?  Kid had 40 catches in 4 years...?  Not saying he cant, but he has a zero route tree.

I agree with all your other takes, Schoonmaker is another guy that has potential.

(03-23-2023, 02:56 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I already figure he isnt making it to cincy. But if he's there, he's the guy

Don't see Mayer falling either and why I really don't entertain the notion.

Would be more than fine with him as a pick but in no way do I think he is worth trading up for to get. Bengals need their picks this year.

(03-23-2023, 02:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I think my question is, who is the Tyler Eifert of this draft class?  If Eifert were in this class I have no issues taking him at #28, but I dont see him in any of these guys?

I think Mayer is a better all-around TE. Kincaid is just as good a receiver. Washington is a MUCH better blocker and has a higher ceiling. 

I think the organization favors TEs who can block over TEs who are essentially WRs. Doing bith is preferable, but we are more willing to take a chance on the good blocker who is a raw receiver rather than the opposite. 

Marcedes Lewis would be a good vet pickup for us. Irv Smith is a swing. Neither is TE1 material. 

(03-23-2023, 02:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Interesting... what exactly are you seeing as a fail?   We only rushed for 3.8 yds this season, still made the AFC title game, not really a fail.   We didn't rush for 4.5 in 2021 and made the SB, definitely not a fail.

I understand that wins come easier with better production, but not sure exactly the "fail" aspect?  I'll take the W's over any specific stats.

A Superbowl contending team fan cannot expect to improve in the run game when your team is the 4th worst in the league. 4th worst yeah that's a failure maybe you do not consider it a failure till we are the worst out of all teams, but I would rather not wait till then to expect improvement. I guess I am the only one asking for Mixon to be cut as well.

(03-23-2023, 02:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Eifert was a solid blocker and receiver, more athletic than Mayer and a better football player than Washington.  

Washington; "high ceiling as a receiver" where does this come from?  Kid had 40 catches in 4 years...?  Not saying he cant, but he has a zero route tree.

I agree with all your other takes, Schoonmaker is another guy that has potential.

Comes from his offseason workouts and what I've seen in games.
He may be less refined when it comes to routes, but he was effective when he got opportunities - 17.2 YPC at Georgia.
At the Combine, he demonstrated really good speed, agility (shuttle), and explosiveness. Especially at his huge size of 6'7" 264 lbs. Most of these TEs that are even coming in the same ballpark are about 10-20 lbs lighter.
Put me in the camp he would have gotten more opportunities as a receiver if he didn't have All-American and likely Top 10 pick next year Brock Bowers ahead of him at TE.

Again though, there is a bit of risk with that. You are getting hands down an elite blocker though, which Cincy shown in the past they want TEs who can block.

(03-23-2023, 03:04 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: A Superbowl contending team fan cannot expect to improve in the run game when your team is the 4th worst in the league. 4th worst yeah that's a failure maybe you do not consider it a failure till we are the worst out of all teams, but I would rather not wait till then to expect improvement. I guess I am the only one asking for Mixon to be cut as well.

that's really priority number 1 here. the run game is horrendous, and it was worse than 2021

(03-23-2023, 02:24 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I am not really looking at LT's only want a RT. I do not really trust Pollack enough to draft a LT to play RT. Even with coaching excluded all players can not make that switch to the other side so it is a gamble. With Orlando on the team another LT would be unless if he cannot make the switch maybe move the guy to guard but we do not need a guard our hole is at RT and Volson will be ok at LG if he can improve some.

Yes, Harrison has played RT but he sure looks like a LT. The other guy's in Wright and Bergeron also can play on both sides but 
are more RT's, same as Dawand who is all RT. One of these guy's please...

(03-23-2023, 02:26 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Bergeron played RT and LT at Syracuse. I think he is built to play RT in the NFL. Carries the proper demeanor and everything to be a really good one at the position.

Really like Bergeron more and more if Darnell Wright is gone.

(03-23-2023, 02:43 PM)ochocincos Wrote: So what's your solution?

The FAs have been picked pretty clean.
The longer you wait in the draft, the more difficult it is to get an immediate contributor.
Your best bet to get an immediate contributor at TE is Pick #28.

The Bengals MIGHT be able to find a guy left in FA, but are they really going to instill any confidence of having a "win-now" TE

You might say a Day 2 TE is going to be fine, but you won't necessarily know who will fall all the way to the 2nd round selection.
The only guys I see as potential immediate starter TEs in the draft are Washington, Mayer, Musgrave, Kincaid (only really in a big slot type role though), Kraft, and LaPorta.
If you wait until 2nd round selection and teams knowing you desperately need a TE, it's possible all those guys are gone by that 2nd round selection.
There are other guys I like as TE2-caliber guys after those guys, but none of which I would be confident in being a solid starter.

Frank usually doesn't do the whole solution thing lol

(03-23-2023, 03:09 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, Harrison has played RT but he sure looks like a LT. The other guy's in Wright and Bergeron also can play on both sides but 
are more RT's, same as Dawand who is all RT. One of these guy's please...


Really like Bergeron more and more if Darnell Wright is gone.


Frank usually doesn't do the whole solution thing lol

once the jonah thing is figured out, then you can narrow down the solution

right now too many things can happen

(03-23-2023, 03:04 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: A Superbowl contending team fan cannot expect to improve in the run game when your team is the 4th worst in the league. 4th worst yeah that's a failure maybe you do not consider it a failure till we are the worst out of all teams, but I would rather not wait till then to expect improvement. I guess I am the only one asking for Mixon to be cut as well.

Again, the only stat I truly care about is W's.  I get that better stats are helpful, but using the word "fail" is kinda meh....

I dont see us cutting Mixon unless we draft a true stud, and even then...., more likely a pay cut.  No doubt his salary needs to be addressed.

(03-23-2023, 02:48 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I said in another post if we do not get at least 4.5 yards per in the running game this year I would see it as a fail since 15 teams was at 4.5 or better. I am in the same boat with sacks if we have 40 sacks or more, I will see that as a fail as well. 40 sacks seem to be the middle of the road hope we can come in closer to 30 with our O-line.

Means absolutely nothing regarding the running game. Bengals made it to the SB two years ago and the AFC title game this year without a great rushing attack. Plenty of ways to use the short passing game as the running game which they did this past year.

There were at least 7 teams that averaged 4.5 ypc or more that didn't even make the playoffs, a couple more that didn't win a playoff game and another one the Bengals beat in the Bills.

Burrow has proven that he'll also take off when nothing is downfield to get big 1st down conversions.