(03-27-2023, 01:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I think the Bengals think there is no one out there currently that will help the roster, I know most of us disagree, but that seems to be 
the case. Zeke is an upgrade over Joe in pass protection and has better vision, but that is it. Joe is the better runner, faster, more explosive,
better pass catcher and playmaker overall etc.

If Dalton Risner is still out there I would make a play for him though over our backup Guards.

I agree Zeke at this point in his career is not better than Mixon outside of what you already discussed. I think it's closer than some think though. They were both really close on a lot of metrics such as broken tackle percentage, ypc, yards over expected, long runs, ect. The rankings of those don't make either look good either.

Up until the last week there were plenty of backs though who were as good or better who signed for half of what Mixon makes. That's the frustrating part

(03-27-2023, 01:27 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: 2nd round is going to be telling for the Bengals. They can go several different ways in the 1st. I think they go “best player available”, which very well could be a TE or OT, which they need. If Bijan’s available, that’s a no brainer inf the 1st round, but I doubt he’s there.

I think they could even wait until the 3rd round and find a starting RB1.

We don’t need a stud at RB. We just need a change of pace back given we’re a pass first offense.

I feel like a stud RB would be a change of pace from the mediocre plodders that get what's blocked for them. I don't understand the aversion to drafting a game changing back and having him on the cheap for 5 years while we pay big money to the other offensive stars... 5 prime cheap years, then move on.

(03-27-2023, 06:35 PM)TheFan Wrote: I agree Zeke at this point in his career is not better than Mixon outside of what you already discussed. I think it's closer than some think though. They were both really close on a lot of metrics such as broken tackle percentage, ypc, yards over expected, long runs, ect. The rankings of those don't make either look good either.

Up until the last week there were plenty of backs though who were as good or better who signed for half of what Mixon makes. That's the frustrating part

I think Mixon needs to be cut because of his large contract but even with saying that, Mixon is much better running the ball than Elliott.  Elliott had a better line to run behind and still struggled running the ball.  Mixon's O-line did him no favors last year with the expection of a couple of games.  One area where Elliott is better is in pass protection and that may be why we sign him.

(03-27-2023, 11:58 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: I think Mixon needs to be cut because of his large contract but even with saying that, Mixon is much better running the ball than Elliott.  Elliott had a better line to run behind and still struggled running the ball.  Mixon's O-line did him no favors last year with the expection of a couple of games.  One area where Elliott is better is in pass protection and that may be why we sign him.

I mean Mixon consistently ranked in the bottom 5 in multiple metrics that have to do specifically with just the RB regardless of the line. He was bad last year, crappy line or not. I don't recall the exact names of them but both Rapien/Liscow and Dehner/Jay talked about it regularly. 

Mixon averaged 3.9ypc
Perine averaged 4.1ypc
Williams averaged 3.8ypc (only had 6 attempts)

Mixon averaged 7.4ypr
Perine averaged 7.6ypr
Williams averaged 15ypr (only had 3 targets)

One of those is making exponentially more than the others. That's the problem. He does nothing beyond 2nd string backs. He was worse than Perine this year who's making only 7mil over 2 years. And Perine can at least actually play on 3rd downs. 

(03-27-2023, 01:32 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know we don't need a WR, but Addison is a freak and you could trade Tee in that scenario for a couple nice picks!

Addison is 5'11" 173 pounds, short arms and runs a 4.49 fourty.  Im not sure I would count on him being a replacement for Tee. 

(03-27-2023, 11:40 PM)jason Wrote: I feel like a stud RB would be a change of pace from the mediocre plodders that get what's blocked for them. I don't understand the aversion to drafting a game changing back and having him on the cheap for 5 years while we pay big money to the other offensive stars... 5 prime cheap years, then move on.

100% agree. You really can't do worse than the RB room we currently have. A cheap RB opens up a lot or money for way more important positions where a 2nd contract is actually worth it. 

(03-28-2023, 12:46 AM)TheFan Wrote: I mean Mixon consistently ranked in the bottom 5 in multiple metrics that have to do specifically with just the RB regardless of the line. He was bad last year, crappy line or not. I don't recall the exact names of them but both Rapien/Liscow and Dehner/Jay talked about it regularly. 

Mixon averaged 3.9ypc
Perine averaged 4.1ypc
Williams averaged 3.8ypc (only had 6 attempts)

Mixon averaged 7.4ypr
Perine averaged 7.6ypr
Williams averaged 15ypr (only had 3 targets)

One of those is making exponentially more than the others. That's the problem. He does nothing beyond 2nd string backs. He was worse than Perine this year who's making only 7mil over 2 years. And Perine can at least actually play on 3rd downs. 

What's the stat on the percentage of times Mixon was hit in the backfield before he was even able to make it to the line of scrimmage?  I know in 2021 the Bengals running backs were hit something like 53% of the time before they could make it to the LOS.  Thats inexcusable.  I think the O-line probably did better in 2022 with the 3 additions but I bet the number is still high.

I am not a Joe Mixon hater, but I have to say I really cannot remember the last time he broke one and took it to the house. If he's not running into the back of our linemen, he's breaking free then slipping and falling down. The guy has lost his balance for some reason. ONe would think after continually slipping and falling, he would go to different cleats.

(03-27-2023, 06:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We can actually designate Mixon a post June cut right now...

But I doubt we do this until after the Draft.

right no reason to let your RB go until you got a new one

(03-28-2023, 12:56 AM)TheFan Wrote: 100% agree. You really can't do worse than the RB room we currently have. A cheap RB opens up a lot or money for way more important positions where a 2nd contract is actually worth it. 

We've grown so used to blaming the offensive line. We're discounting the fact that there are guys that can make people miss tackles.

There are only so many plays (and players) to spread the ball to. You don’t want to take the ball out of Burrow’s hands. We need a RB to keep opposing defenses honest…maybe 15, on the outside 20 carries/game. I agree having a good one is better than having a mediocre one. I also agree that it’s not all the OL’s fault regarding Mixon’s YPC mediocrity. I do like him in the passing game. But, now we’re faced with the same dilemma……how many outlets can be fed in this offense. There are too many other much, much better options there.


Get a guy in the draft. Save the Mixon money for more important things. Zeke? I don’t see him fitting into any of this at all. If you only want him as a blocker, for a RB he’s good at it. But, again there are better options that will be cheaper.

(03-28-2023, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I am not a Joe Mixon hater, but I have to say I really cannot remember the last time he broke one and took it to the house. If he's not running into the back of our linemen, he's breaking free then slipping and falling down. The guy has lost his balance for some reason. ONe would think after continually slipping and falling, he would go to different cleats.

Mixon has never had break away speed but made up for it with other good qualities. That said Im ready for some new blood back there with adding a  homerun threat hopefully.  

(03-28-2023, 10:39 AM)kalibengal Wrote: Mixon has never had break away speed but made up for it with other good qualities. That said Im ready for some new blood back there with adding a  homerun threat hopefully.  

That’s funny. His 40 time at the OU pro day was 4.43. At 6.1 220 pounds only a handful of running backs his size are faster in the last 5 years. Mixon still has one of the best TD ratio to touches of any back in the entire history of OU. You have to have breakaway speed to do that.

(03-28-2023, 10:01 AM)Graphicguy Wrote: There are only so many plays (and players) to spread the ball to.  You don’t want to take the ball out of Burrow’s hands.  We need a RB to keep opposing defenses honest…maybe 15, on the outside 20 carries/game.  I agree having a good one is better than having a mediocre one.  I also agree that it’s not all the OL’s fault regarding Mixon’s YPC mediocrity.  I do like him in the passing game.  But, now we’re faced with the same dilemma……how many outlets can be fed in this offense.  There are too many other much, much better options there.


Get a guy in the draft.  Save the Mixon money for more important things.  Zeke?  I don’t see him fitting into any of this at all.  If you only want him as a blocker, for a RB he’s good at it.  But, again there are better options that will be cheaper.

Right, so we need a RB that has proven he can block on the NFL level more than we need one for anything else. Zeke, for all he has lost in the run game, is still one of the better blockers out there. I'm not sure I want to trust Burrow's protection to a rookie.

(03-28-2023, 01:15 AM)007BengalsFan Wrote: What's the stat on the percentage of times Mixon was hit in the backfield before he was even able to make it to the line of scrimmage?  I know in 2021 the Bengals running backs were hit something like 53% of the time before they could make it to the LOS.  Thats inexcusable.  I think the O-line probably did better in 2022 with the 3 additions but I bet the number is still high.

Oh for sure our Oline is part of the problem but our backs also just aren't good. That's why I posted all 3 backs stats from last year. When Perine is your best back that is not a good position unit. 

But factors like broken tackle percentage, expected yards, etc are stats that usually are not dependent on the Oline and Mixon was awful at all of them. 

Football Outsiders ( lots of people like them the best)
Cincy vs Bills: It wasn't all the offensive line in the running game for the Bengals either. I really thought Mixon ran his ass off and had the best game of his season that I have seen. He consistently made the right read and got into the hole quickly enough so that even if the Bengals weren't perfect up front, he gave them a chance to gain positive yards.

Against Carolina they said: The stars of Week 9 in the NFL were a trio of runners. Joe Mixon had the best running back game in 16 years.

(03-27-2023, 06:35 PM)TheFan Wrote: I agree Zeke at this point in his career is not better than Mixon outside of what you already discussed. I think it's closer than some think though. They were both really close on a lot of metrics such as broken tackle percentage, ypc, yards over expected, long runs, ect. The rankings of those don't make either look good either.

Up until the last week there were plenty of backs though who were as good or better who signed for half of what Mixon makes. That's the frustrating part

Exactly, Mixon is just way overpaid on top of what we discussed.

(03-27-2023, 11:40 PM)jason Wrote: I feel like a stud RB would be a change of pace from the mediocre plodders that get what's blocked for them. I don't understand the aversion to drafting a game changing back and having him on the cheap for 5 years while we pay big money to the other offensive stars... 5 prime cheap years, then move on.

You know what Jason? This actually could be a great way to use the draft the way we do with Corners. This saves you money drafting
these types of positions and they come into the NFL pro ready especially if they are a stud, like say Bijan Robinson for example.

If we draft Bijan, Gibbs or Tyjae Spears I could see us cutting Mixon honestly, just not the time right now.

(03-28-2023, 09:19 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: right no reason to let your RB go until you got a new one

Yep.

(03-28-2023, 09:22 AM)jason Wrote: We've grown so used to blaming the offensive line. We're discounting the fact that there are guys that can make people miss tackles.

For damn sure, would be nice to finally have one of those...

It sounds as if Jerry Jones is about to re-sign Zeke now that the price has dropped.

(03-28-2023, 11:29 PM)Go Cards Wrote: It sounds as if Jerry Jones is about to re-sign Zeke now that the price has dropped.

That’s what they told him. Go get a great deal if you can. If you can’t we will save your spot

(03-28-2023, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I am not a Joe Mixon hater, but I have to say I really cannot remember the last time he broke one and took it to the house. If he's not running into the back of our linemen, he's breaking free then slipping and falling down. The guy has lost his balance for some reason. ONe would think after continually slipping and falling, he would go to different cleats.

Depends on what you consider a big one. Mixon's longest career run is 51 yards, and he didn't score a TD on it.

EDIT: Researched it, and Mixon has 7 career rushing TDs of 10+ yards. His two highest came in the same game. 34 & 23 yard TDs against Jacksonville in 2020.