(03-27-2023, 09:01 PM)Synric Wrote: https://www.outkick.com/nfl-annual-meeting-league-boasts-great-2022-burrow-hurts-herbert-headed-for-extensions-but-not-tua-who-will-go-no-1-trade-market-at-a-standoff/

Thanks for this. Very interesting perspective on the Jonah situation.

(03-27-2023, 08:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Carman has shown he cannot play guard

That’s why he’s a backup

(03-27-2023, 08:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Carman has shown he cannot play guard

True, keep Carman at Tackle.

(03-27-2023, 09:01 PM)Synric Wrote: https://www.outkick.com/nfl-annual-meeting-league-boasts-great-2022-burrow-hurts-herbert-headed-for-extensions-but-not-tua-who-will-go-no-1-trade-market-at-a-standoff/

That part about Belichick showing up late always to avoid talking to the press lol

Well, this is about how I figured things would go (once Jonah requested the trade). The Bengals clearly want a Day 2 pick, probably a 2nd. But no one wants to give that up for a guy who isn't a franchise level tackle and can walk in a year.

Best case for us is he swallows his pride & plays RT for us, well. And takes his $12.6 and leaves. We have 2 years to find/groom/draft a replacement with Collins signed for 2 more years. Bet it Carman or a draft pick.

Even if we are still wanting to unload him, we have to make teams THINK he could play it out for us. Better 0layers than Jinah have requested trades and not been moved yet: Jackson, Rodgers, Ekeler.

(03-28-2023, 12:41 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Well, this is about how I figured things would go (once Jonah requested the trade). The Bengals clearly want a Day 2 pick, probably a 2nd. But no one wants to give that up for a guy who isn't a franchise level tackle and can walk in a year.

Best case for us is he swallows his pride & plays RT for us, well. And takes his $12.6 and leaves. We have 2 years to find/groom/draft a replacement with Collins signed for 2 more years. Bet it Carman or a draft pick.

Even if we are still wanting to unload him, we have to make teams THINK he could play it out for us. Better 0layers than Jinah have requested trades and not been moved yet: Jackson, Rodgers, Ekeler.

Ideally, we keep Jonah, have him play RT for a year, and groom his replacement (or get a veteran next year).

(03-27-2023, 07:12 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I disagree with the bolded comment above.

Teams will know by the end of day 1 if they fixed their OL issue. There is a long time after day 1 until start of day 2 to work a deal if that is the direction the Bengals decide to go.

After today's Zac comments though and after all of our OL issues, I am not convinced the Bengals want to trade Jonah.

ZT had high praise for Jonah work ethic and character today. Maybe it is a smoke screen, but ZT seems to be direct and honest with his answers to the press.

An Oft Injuried OL that needs a new deal is why im only valuing him Around a 3rd...

It be smarter to trade him than force him to a position he doesnt want / cant play

(03-28-2023, 09:21 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: An Oft Injuried OL that needs a new deal is why im only valuing him Around a 3rd...

It be smarter to trade him than force him to a position he doesnt want / cant play

I'd be shocked if they got a 3rd for him. But, let's see.

(03-27-2023, 06:17 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac today when asked about Jonah?

“I’m excited to see him come in and compete at right tackle,” Taylor said.

But given how important culture and buy-in are to Taylor and this coaching staff, is he worried that Williams’ dissatisfaction with the situation can create long-term disruption?
“I’m not,” Taylor responded. “I know that that’s part of the business and for Jonah, he’s always been everything we wanted him to be about. We’ve never had issues with him. Hopefully, we can work through this, and he can come in and compete at right tackle for us. That’s what we’re counting on him to do. Again, every step of the way over four years he’s done everything we’ve asked him to do. He’s bought in. He’s never been an issue, and I don’t anticipate that being an issue.”

Excellent bit of coach speak by Zac, he handles the tough questions with ease and grace.  On the other hand, Williams shows how much he buys into the idea of playing anywhere other than LT by immediately asking for a trade.  The problem is, who exactly is looking to trade for a short armed OT who gave up the most sacks at his position last year?  

If I were Williams, I'd be fighting my hardest to win and hold the starting job at whatever position they offer to him.  Otherwise he might be finding it tough to maintain a roster spot on a good team, like the Bengals.

(03-28-2023, 10:57 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Excellent bit of coach speak by Zac, he handles the tough questions with ease and grace.  On the other hand, Williams shows how much he buys into the idea of playing anywhere other than LT by immediately asking for a trade.  The problem is, who exactly is looking to trade for a short armed OT who gave up the most sacks at his position last year?  

If I were Williams, I'd be fighting my hardest to win and hold the starting job at whatever position they offer to him.  Otherwise he might be finding it tough to maintain a roster spot on a good team, like the Bengals.

I can't blame Williams for asking for a trade to somewhere where he can continue as a Left Tackle. He has the potential to make way more money playing on the left. That said, if they can't make a trade for him, I fully expect him to embrace the right side to remain a starter and maybe move on next year. I think people forget, if you were making a lot of money doing one job, and all of a sudden your boss brought in another employee to take your spot and asked you to work at another spot where you are compensated less for the rest of your career, you'd probably be seeking employment options elsewhere as well. Doesn't mean he's disgruntled, it's a business decision. 

(03-28-2023, 11:30 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I can't blame Williams for asking for a trade to somewhere where he can continue as a Left Tackle. He has the potential to make way more money playing on the left. That said, if they can't make a trade for him, I fully expect him to embrace the right side to remain a starter and maybe move on next year. I think people forget, if you were making a lot of money doing one job, and all of a sudden your boss brought in another employee to take your spot and asked you to work at another spot where you are compensated less for the rest of your career, you'd probably be seeking employment options elsewhere as well. Doesn't mean he's disgruntled, it's a business decision. 

But if no one wants to trade for him and he sees that he is not going to play LT for any other franchise will that change his mind about moving to the right side?

If no team sees him as a LT then he needs to adjust his expectations and try to show he can be a high level RT. I think that’s his best bet at making $ in FA next year.

(03-28-2023, 11:30 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I can't blame Williams for asking for a trade to somewhere where he can continue as a Left Tackle. He has the potential to make way more money playing on the left. That said, if they can't make a trade for him, I fully expect him to embrace the right side to remain a starter and maybe move on next year. I think people forget, if you were making a lot of money doing one job, and all of a sudden your boss brought in another employee to take your spot and asked you to work at another spot where you are compensated less for the rest of your career, you'd probably be seeking employment options elsewhere as well. Doesn't mean he's disgruntled, it's a business decision. 

That's a poor analogy to support the point you were trying to make, as Williams has had 4 seasons to prove that he could rise to the level of elite QB blindside protector.  He failed to get it done, and the team felt obligated to go hire someone else to protect their team's biggest asset, Joe Burrow.  Now, it is unfortunate that Williams has had to try to do his job while enduring physical injuries and such, but that is part of the job description.  He should embrace the opportunity to show that he still belongs in the NFL and is willing to be a team player and adapt a different role.

(03-28-2023, 11:41 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote:
But if no one wants to trade for him and he sees that he is not going to play LT for any other franchise will that change his mind about moving to the right side?

If no team sees him as a LT then he needs to adjust his expectations and try to show he can be a high level RT.  I think that’s his best bet at making $ in FA next year.

I think it will...

(03-28-2023, 12:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's a poor analogy to support the point you were trying to make, as Williams has had 4 seasons to prove that he could rise to the level of elite QB blindside protector.  He failed to get it done, and the team felt obligated to go hire someone else to protect their team's biggest asset, Joe Burrow.  Now, it is unfortunate that Williams has had to try to do his job while enduring physical injuries and such, but that is part of the job description.  He should embrace the opportunity to show that he still belongs in the NFL and is willing to be a team player and adapt a different role.

Not really, I never said he was elite. He is "OK" as in middle of the pack. That does not mean being replaced and asked to take a spot that typically pays less does not sting. I don't blame the team, and I don't blame him. I think it's a normal reaction. He's not trash talking anyone, he simply asked to be traded. If they can't reade him, I expect he will still give his all on the right side. People are making more of the trade request than there really is. 

(03-28-2023, 11:30 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I can't blame Williams for asking for a trade to somewhere where he can continue as a Left Tackle. He has the potential to make way more money playing on the left. That said, if they can't make a trade for him, I fully expect him to embrace the right side to remain a starter and maybe move on next year. I think people forget, if you were making a lot of money doing one job, and all of a sudden your boss brought in another employee to take your spot and asked you to work at another spot where you are compensated less for the rest of your career, you'd probably be seeking employment options elsewhere as well. Doesn't mean he's disgruntled, it's a business decision. 

Williams was baffled by the mix signals given to him by the staff. And no I’m not criticizing them. It just happens. He felt secure ( Callahan comments a few weeks before the trade) but when they got an opportunity to get Orlando things changed. The staff misjudged Williams desire to move to RT ( he’s been a great team first guy). Tough deal for all of them.

(03-28-2023, 11:41 AM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: But if no one wants to trade for him and he sees that he is not going to play LT for any other franchise will that change his mind about moving to the right side?

If no team sees him as a LT then he needs to adjust his expectations and try to show he can be a high level RT.  I think that’s his best bet at making $ in FA next year.

Lane Johnson just got $33 mil. He is a RT. McGlinchey got a big number, he's a RT. KC just paid a RT $20 mil a year to take over for Brown. You can make good money at RT. 

(03-28-2023, 12:28 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Lane Johnson just got $33 mil. He is a RT. McGlinchey got a big number, he's a RT. KC just paid a RT $20 mil a year to take over for Brown. You can make good money at RT. 

If you’re elite. The 18th best LT will get paid more than the 12th best RT

(03-28-2023, 02:29 AM)BuildTheWall Wrote: Ideally, we keep Jonah, have him play RT for a year, and groom his replacement (or get a veteran next year).

Hope he really works on his anchor this Offseason. Dude just gets pushed around too much for my liking. I don't like the thought of 
Jonah vs Twatt. Imagine there is an open competition between Jonah and Carman and Carman wins out?

That would really hurt Jonah's propositions for the future...

(03-28-2023, 02:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Hope he really works on his anchor this Offseason. Dude just gets pushed around too much for my liking. I don't like the thought of 
Jonah vs Twatt. Imagine there is an open competition between Jonah and Carman and Carman wins out?

That would really hurt Jonah's propositions for the future...

Hopefully that 12 million dollars in Jonah's pockets will keep him anchored down a little better in 2023. 

(03-28-2023, 01:26 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: If you’re elite. The 18th best LT will get paid more than the 12th best RT

Sure. But Jawaan Taylor is not even close to elite, and the Chiefs gave him $20 mil to move from RT to LT. 

Lineman A: 58.7, 60.4, 56.5, 63.7. 
Lineman B: 61.2, 77.1, 70.1, n/a. 

A is a RT. B is a LT. A just got a 4 year/$80 mil deal. And his best year is barely better than Jonah's worst, 12 games of which were played on a bum kneecap. 

If Jonah plays like he did in '21 and '20, we will get a very good RT. And he will get a healthy raise next year. From us or someone else. 

FWIW, the Insider on Cincy Jungle says we have already turned down 3rd round picks for Jonah. The thinking being he yields a third round comp pick if he walks as a FA. A year of quality RT play + a third > a third in the minds of the FO.