(03-31-2023, 04:00 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When Burrow is making $50 mill a year, Chase and Tee $25 million...it's going to be significantly harder to add free agents. So we better get guys willing to take less.

I'd love to keep Tee. I just can't see how it works out without hurting the team elsewhere.

Unless they're willing to take below market value, I think those numbers are going to end up being low for Burrow and Chase.

The quicker the Bengals can get an extension done with Burrow, the better. If Hurts and Herbert get their deals done first, it's probably going to raise the price of Burrow's contract.

Justin Jefferson is about to reset the top of the WR market which is already at $30m/yr, and CeeDee Lamb will follow up and solidify the market right behind the top 3 paid. Chase would have to take well below market value to be at that number.

(03-31-2023, 04:16 PM)TheFan Wrote: Just last year KC offered him a 6 year 139mil contract to be their LT. Maybe he didn't get an offer like that this year but we don't know what offers he got or that no one else sees him a LT. 

That said, I agree that's there's no evidence that FA come/stay here because of Burrow. Like others have said, it's just something people keep saying without evidence. 

That's a completely meaningless number. The real number is the Chiefs only offered him $38m fully guaranteed while the Bengals offered $43.5m fully guaranteed.

Derek Carr signed a 3yr/$121.5m extension with the Raiders in 2022 and was cut this offseason because it only had $24.8m guaranteed at signing. Same thing with Geno Smith's reported 3yr/$105m contract. It's really a 2yr/$60m deal.

Guarantees are the thing that matters most in contracts. Not to mention the first 5 years of that Chiefs contract would have paid out $95m. So even if the Chiefs don't cut him well before because he has no guarantees, there is absolutely zero chance they would pay him $44m for his final year.

We are gonna be a TE magnet for years

(04-01-2023, 03:44 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - I don't believe this to be true at all. Reports came out after the signing that several teams with enough cap space inquired about Brown... none of which were the Bengals. Brown's camp reached out the THEM first because he wanted to come to Cincy. He also took less than what the Bears would/could have given him. He didn't even entertain other offers. Brown's camp offered the Bengals a steal because he told them to get it done and that is where he wanted to be. I don't believe the Bengals even negotiated much. Brown's agents bascially said, "how about this" and the Bengals jumped at it.

^ This has been reported multiple places. Locked on Bengals covered this quite well.

- Irv Smith also had multiple offers and choose the Bengals for less money. This makes since if you look at how mjch coin playing with Burrow made Uzomah & Hurst. But he specifically stated Burrow and winning in his interviews sknce signing.

I believe the Joe Burrow culture shift will be happening in Cincy for several years as long as they win. High potential guys or higher valued players may look at the club for a bit less money as a strong option either because they want legacy and a family feel, or as a launching pad to jump start their career again.

Bottom line is this: Cincy no longer has to pay a PREMIUM to get strong players in the builiding and some are taking a bit less to do so. This is apparent. -10% discoint is better than a +20% permium!

Orlando ended up a Bengal because the other teams that had interest in him wanted him as a RT and he wanted to stay at LT. There was a lot written about this before he reached out to the Bengals. The rest of the league just didn't view him as a LT.

In Irv's case he had narrowed it down to the Bengals and reuniting with Tua in Miami. His dad convinced him to pick the Bengals. This has also been talked about on Bengals.com and his interview with Dan Hoard. 

I'm sure having Joe helps to some degree when guys are making their decisions, but it wasn't the main reason why either of these guys ended up signing here. If someone would have given Orlando more money and let him play LT, that's where he'd be right now. If Irv's dad has of convinced him to go to Miami, that's probably where he'd be right now.

(03-31-2023, 02:49 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Do you think the Bengals are debating extending Burrow?

It will happen.

There's no debating that. If there's any debate at all it's the conditions of the extension.. 
Do you think there's anyone in the Bengals organization saying, "Maybe we should let Burrow go and see if we can get good old Andy back!" ?

(04-01-2023, 07:38 PM)Housh Wrote: We are gonna be a TE magnet for years

We literally had to settle for Irv Smith off the scrap heap this year. He's a guy I liked. But, we clearly weren't a TE magnet.

I think Moreau was going to the Saints too. And he had the LSU connection with Burrow.

Players take the best offer.

That said, had we beat the Rams in the SB 2 years ago, we might get guys on a discount. Now, we're just another contender.

(04-02-2023, 09:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We literally had to settle for Irv Smith off the scrap heap this year. He's a guy I liked. But, we clearly weren't a TE magnet.

I think Moreau was going to the Saints too. And he had the LSU connection with Burrow.

Players take the best offer.

That said, had we beat the Rams in the SB 2 years ago, we might get guys on a discount. Now, we're just another contender.

Who did we miss out on that was in our money range?

I don’t count it as missing out on a guy if we were never in that guys price range.

(04-01-2023, 09:28 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Orlando ended up a Bengal because the other teams that had interest in him wanted him as a RT and he wanted to stay at LT. There was a lot written about this before he reached out to the Bengals. The rest of the league just didn't view him as a LT.

In Irv's case he had narrowed it down to the Bengals and reuniting with Tua in Miami. His dad convinced him to pick the Bengals. This has also been talked about on Bengals.com and his interview with Dan Hoard. 

I'm sure having Joe helps to some degree when guys are making their decisions, but it wasn't the main reason why either of these guys ended up signing here. If someone would have given Orlando more money and let him play LT, that's where he'd be right now. If Irv's dad has of convinced him to go to Miami, that's probably where he'd be right now.

The LT thing was part of it for sure. But that was part of the deal, IMO.

QUESTION:

Do you think either of those players are in Cincy if - given the exact same conditions were met and the money was the same - Andy Dalton is the QB and the team had been losing or treading water the last 3 years? I would say no damn way. Absolutely not. Either the Bengals would have had to toss in way more cash or the players would have used them for leverage to find a place they wanted to be.

I guess that's where my head is at with this stuff. Burrow and the team success that's come with him has at least leveled the playing field where the Bengals aren't having to overpay by large margins.

Goes to show before Burrow, players really didn't want to play for the Bengals. We all suspected as much, now we know.

(04-02-2023, 09:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We literally had to settle for Irv Smith off the scrap heap this year. He's a guy I liked. But, we clearly weren't a TE magnet.

I think Moreau was going to the Saints too. And he had the LSU connection with Burrow.

Players take the best offer.

That said, had we beat the Rams in the SB 2 years ago, we might get guys on a discount. Now, we're just another contender.

I think the FA acquisitions speak for themselves.....they got the Bengals to the SB or AFC Championship in last two years.  Those guys were critical to the teams success.  Zac made the Bengals a place guys wanted to be, starting with DJ Reader.  Didn't have that before Zac and Burrow.  Of course the Bengals gotta pay.

(04-02-2023, 04:32 PM)bengals1969 Wrote: I think the FA acquisitions speak for themselves.....they got the Bengals to the SB or AFC Championship in last two years.  Those guys were critical to the teams success.  Zac made the Bengals a place guys wanted to be, starting with DJ Reader.  Didn't have that before Zac and Burrow.  Of course the Bengals gotta pay.

The Bengals were horrible when Reader signed here. He didn't come because Zac created a winner. He came because the Bengals paid him the most.

And Reader didn't come because of Burrow. He signed here before Burrow played a down in the nfl.

(04-02-2023, 02:16 PM)Housh Wrote: Who did we miss out on that was in our money range?

I don’t count it as missing out on a guy if we were never in that guys price range.

That's just it. The narrative is that guys take less money to play with Burrow.

(04-02-2023, 02:16 PM)PDub80 Wrote: The LT thing was part of it for sure. But that was part of the deal, IMO.

QUESTION:

Do you think either of those players are in Cincy if - given the exact same conditions were met and the money was the same - Andy Dalton is the QB and the team had been losing or treading water the last 3 years? I would say no damn way. Absolutely not. Either the Bengals would have had to toss in way more cash or the players would have used them for leverage to find a place they wanted to be.

I guess that's where my head is at with this stuff. Burrow and the team success that's come with him has at least leveled the playing field where the Bengals aren't having to overpay by large margins.

Brown had no market. Wanted paid as a LT, but league viewed him as a RT.

We talked to him and were out because he wanted too much. Then, when the market for him dried up, we came back in.

If he wanted to be here so bad because of Burrow, he would have took our initial offer.

(04-02-2023, 05:18 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Brown had no market. Wanted paid as a LT, but league viewed him as a RT.

We talked to him and were out because he wanted too much. Then, when the market for him dried up, we came back in.

If he wanted to be here so bad because of Burrow, he would have took our initial offer.

I thought Dehner's story said they were never in the market for him because they figured he would be way out of their price range, and that's why they were so shocked when his camp contacted them? I think Radicevic even said they didn't do any work on him. 

(04-02-2023, 02:16 PM)PDub80 Wrote: QUESTION:

Do you think either of those players are in Cincy if - given the exact same conditions were met and the money was the same - Andy Dalton is the QB and the team had been losing or treading water the last 3 years? I would say no damn way. Absolutely not. Either the Bengals would have had to toss in way more cash or the players would have used them for leverage to find a place they wanted to be.

Of course having Joe and recent success is beneficial and I think it definitely played a role in getting Cappa and Karras...but do you think if the Bears had offered Orlando 20m per year and let him play LT, that he would've still chose the Bengals at 16m? I don't. He's here because the Bengals were probably the best option he had left if he wanted to play LT. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it worked out that way.

I don't know why this has to be debated. Some players are at the points in their careers where they are chasing their big money contracts. Some players are at the point in their career where they want to play for a SB contender. Joe Burrow makes the Bengals a SB contender, therefore it is correct to say Burrow draws some players here, but not all. It's really just that simple.

(04-02-2023, 05:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bengals were horrible when Reader signed here. He didn't come because Zac created a winner. He came because the Bengals paid him the most.

And Reader didn't come because of Burrow. He signed here before Burrow played a down in the nfl.

Well, he did say this.

https://stripehype.com/2021/10/05/bengals-dj-reader-joe-burrow/

(04-03-2023, 03:24 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Well, he did say this.

https://stripehype.com/2021/10/05/bengals-dj-reader-joe-burrow/

Shhhh, no... It doesn't matter what they players say. We allll know they just care about money and lie.

(04-03-2023, 05:54 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Shhhh, no... It doesn't matter what they players say. We allll know they just care about money and lie.

The Reader deal was different than Orlando, who was running out of options and Smith, who's dad opinion was the deciding factor. Reader had similar offers on the table from the Bengals and Broncos, but the Broncos had Drew Lock and the Bengals were getting the Heisman trophy winner. In Reader's case, playing with Burrow was the deciding factor.

As great as Joe is, he's not going to be the primary reason to come here for every free agent. 

A WR coming in FA because of Joe is very likely and an OL player to a lesser degree. But it’s the desire to play for a team that can win a Super Bowl primarily. But make no mistake the culture Zac has created and the entire staff he’s assembled is big as well.

(04-02-2023, 09:32 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We literally had to settle for Irv Smith off the scrap heap this year. He's a guy I liked. But, we clearly weren't a TE magnet.

I think Moreau was going to the Saints too. And he had the LSU connection with Burrow.

Players take the best offer.

That said, had we beat the Rams in the SB 2 years ago, we might get guys on a discount. Now, we're just another contender.

Not always. 

Pratt seemed like he took a haircut to stay. Scott had other offers. Guys want to win, too. If the money is close (or the player already has had a big payday), winning & fit & culture play a part. As does having a prior relationship with a coach or coordinator.