Well, if he is as fast as Kelcie and bigger, he could be a stud TE. Add Burrow being very accurate over the middle and from 10 to 25 yards and he could be another huge weapon.

FYI, seems as though Washington is as fast as Kelcie was at his pro day.
Travis Kelce had an unofficial 40 time of 4.61 seconds at the University of Cincinnati pro day. Kelce had a sports Hernia during the NFL combine meaning he wasn’t able to get an official 40 time at the event.

(04-10-2023, 02:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Well, if he is as fast as Kelcie and bigger, he could be a stud TE. Add Burrow being very accurate over the middle and from 10 to 25 yards and he could be another huge weapon.

FYI, seems as though Washington is as fast as Kelcie was at his pro day.
Travis Kelce had an unofficial 40 time of 4.61 seconds at the University of Cincinnati pro day. Kelce had a sports Hernia during the NFL combine meaning he wasn’t able to get an official 40 time at the event.

Going even further than the 40, let's look at the rest of the drills for comparison.
Also including OJ Howard, as he was someone who was considered a freak athletic TE who could block but was underutilized in college.

Washington:
Weight - 264 lb
40 - 4.64
10split - 1.61
shuttle - 4.08
broad - 10'2"
vert - 31"

Kelce:
Weight - 255 lb
40 - 4.61

10split - 1.61
shuttle - 4.42
broad - 10'4"
vert - 35"

Howard:
Weight - 251 lb
40 - 4.51

10split - 1.55
shuttle - 4.16
broad - 10'1"
vert - 30"

Washington's agility is overall better than Kelce, about on par with Howard. Washington's straight speed is about identical to Kelce.
All while being about 10 lbs heavier than Kelce, about 15 lbs heavier than Howard.

I think Washington has the *potential* to be a 700+ yard receiving TE if given enough opportunity in an offense and he develops enough in that aspect of his game. I think he's a 400-600 yard guy as is while very likely going to be one of the best blocking TEs in the entire league. That floor is more of a Day 2 pick, but the ceiling is definitely worthy of a 1st rounder.

(04-11-2023, 02:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Going even further than the 40, let's look at the rest of the drills for comparison.
Also including OJ Howard, as he was someone who was considered a freak athletic TE who could block but was underutilized in college.

Washington:
Weight - 264 lb
40 - 4.64
10split - 1.61
shuttle - 4.08
broad - 10'2"
vert - 31"

Kelce:
Weight - 255 lb
40 - 4.61

10split - 1.61
shuttle - 4.42
broad - 10'4"
vert - 35"

Howard:
Weight - 251 lb
40 - 4.51

10split - 1.55
shuttle - 4.16
broad - 10'1"
vert - 30"

Washington's agility is overall better than Kelce, about on par with Howard. Washington's straight speed is about identical to Kelce.
All while being about 10 lbs heavier than Kelce, about 15 lbs heavier than Howard.

I think Washington has the *potential* to be a 700+ yard receiving TE if given enough opportunity in an offense and he develops enough in that aspect of his game. I think he's a 400-600 yard guy as is while very likely going to be one of the best blocking TEs in the entire league. That floor is more of a Day 2 pick, but the ceiling is definitely worthy of a 1st rounder.

That is a nice vert from Kelce. Thanks for this Ocho, been seeing Washington falling to our pick at 60 in multiple mocks lately.

Sure as hell hope so, would love to get him on Day 2 if we can. If we DO draft Washington, I know Burrow will do everything he can 
to help him become that Receiving TE he can be and gain chemistry with him as soon as possible.

(04-11-2023, 02:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Going even further than the 40, let's look at the rest of the drills for comparison.
Also including OJ Howard, as he was someone who was considered a freak athletic TE who could block but was underutilized in college.

Washington:
Weight - 264 lb
40 - 4.64
10split - 1.61
shuttle - 4.08
broad - 10'2"
vert - 31"

Kelce:
Weight - 255 lb
40 - 4.61

10split - 1.61
shuttle - 4.42
broad - 10'4"
vert - 35"

Howard:
Weight - 251 lb
40 - 4.51

10split - 1.55
shuttle - 4.16
broad - 10'1"
vert - 30"

Washington's agility is overall better than Kelce, about on par with Howard. Washington's straight speed is about identical to Kelce.
All while being about 10 lbs heavier than Kelce, about 15 lbs heavier than Howard.

I think Washington has the *potential* to be a 700+ yard receiving TE if given enough opportunity in an offense and he develops enough in that aspect of his game. I think he's a 400-600 yard guy as is while very likely going to be one of the best blocking TEs in the entire league. That floor is more of a Day 2 pick, but the ceiling is definitely worthy of a 1st rounder.

.

The thing about Kelce and other very good Tight Ends appears to be in how they run routes and find soft spots in defenses to get open. Their Knack for the game and ability to be on the same page as their QB. How they settle right in to soft spots in the Defense.

I like Washington's physical traits but it looks like his peak season was for just 28 receptions. It seems like Dalton Kincaid is getting respect for his knack for the game as a pass catcher. Kincaid has 24, 44 and 36 reception seasons. Michael Mayer has 42, 71 and 62 reception seasons.

Receptions themselves won't indicate for certain which Tight End will have this knack for getting open while being on the same page as their QB ability.

Any thoughts on which rookie has the likelihood of having this "knack for the game" ?  Which rookie would simply work best with Burrow & the other pieces ?

(04-11-2023, 03:18 PM)depthchart Wrote: .

The thing about Kelce and other very good Tight Ends appears to be in how they run routes and find soft spots in defenses to get open. Their Knack for the game and ability to be on the same page as their QB. How they settle right in to soft spots in the Defense.

I like Washington's physical traits but it looks like his peak season was for just 28 receptions. It seems like Dalton Kincaid is getting respect for his knack for the game as a pass catcher. Kincaid has 24, 44 and 36 reception seasons. Michael Mayer has 42, 71 and 62 reception seasons.

Receptions themselves won't indicate for certain which Tight End will have this knack for getting open while being on the same page as their QB ability.

Any thoughts on which rookie has the likelihood of having this "knack for the game" ?  Which rookie would simply work best with Burrow & the other pieces ?

Kincaid, Mayer, and LaPorta have that "knack" you talk about.
But keep in mind that they didn't have an All-American TE like Brock Bowers to take away their target share.
I firmly believe Washington would have been featured more in the passing game if they didn't have Bowers.
Bowers has put up over 1800 yards and 20 TDs with Georgia the past two seasons.
That's a lot of TE targets and production not going to Washington.

So yes, while I think Washington needs more work and experience to develop that aspect, I think he was limited by the opportunities because of Brock Bowers being that much more prominent as a pass catcher. Bowers is much more in the Kincaid/Evan Engram mold.

(04-11-2023, 03:30 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Kincaid, Mayer, and LaPorta have that "knack" you talk about.
But keep in mind that they didn't have an All-American TE like Brock Bowers to take away their target share.
I firmly believe Washington would have been featured more in the passing game if they didn't have Bowers.
Bowers has put up over 1800 yards and 20 TDs with Georgia the past two seasons.
That's a lot of TE targets and production not going to Washington.

So yes, while I think Washington needs more work and experience to develop that aspect, I think he was limited by the opportunities because of Brock Bowers being that much more prominent as a pass catcher. Bowers is much more in the Kincaid/Evan Engram mold.

.

Good point about Bowers.

I think that I am more in the camp of Kincaid, Mayer in round 1 or LaPorta in round 2 versus getting Washington in round 1.

I respect Washington's rare size and speed physical traits at 6 foot 7 inches tall but he almost seems like a player that Mike Brown would have fell in love with had he been in a previous Draft then spent a lot of time developing & hoping for Greatness from.

I have a "feeling" that Duke Tobin, Zac and the current Coaching Staff may prefer the Kincaid, Mayer, and LaPorta type of player coming out of College in order to possibly get more immediate passing game production. This is just my guess on this.

I am curious of just how the Bengals will Draft the Tight End position this coming Draft. 

I expect that they will get it right.

(04-11-2023, 04:26 PM)depthchart Wrote: .

Good point about Bowers.

I think that I am more in the camp of Kincaid, Mayer in round 1 or LaPorta in round 2 versus getting Washington in round 1.

I respect Washington's rare size and speed physical traits at 6 foot 7 inches tall but he almost seems like a player that Mike Brown would have fell in love with had he been in a previous Draft then spent a lot of time developing & hoping for Greatness from.

I have a "feeling" that Duke Tobin, Zac and the current Coaching Staff may prefer the Kincaid, Mayer, and LaPorta type of player coming out of College in order to possibly get more immediate passing game production. This is just my guess on this.

I am curious of just how the Bengals will Draft the Tight End position this coming Draft. 

I expect that they will get it right.

I don't think Kincaid fits what the Bengals want in a TE at all.
They run a lot of 11 personnel, so the TE is no better than 3rd on the pecking order and will need to block a good amount.
Having a guy who is a glorified big WR to be the TE doesn't seem a fit with the Bengals offense.

LaPorta and Mayer are well-rounded and are better fits, I think.
Washington as well, but slightly different. I think he's the best blocker, but he's the riskiest for pass catching production.

(04-11-2023, 04:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't think Kincaid fits what the Bengals want in a TE at all.
They run a lot of 11 personnel, so the TE is no better than 3rd on the pecking order and will need to block a good amount.
Having a guy who is a glorified big WR to be the TE doesn't seem a fit with the Bengals offense.

LaPorta and Mayer are well-rounded and are better fits, I think.
Washington as well, but slightly different. I think he's the best blocker, but he's the riskiest for pass catching production.

Completely agree, have seen a few mocks with us taking Kincaid, but it just doesn't make sense IMO.

If Mayer is there at 28, he has to be given serious consideration. He's the most complete and pro ready TE in this draft, IMO.

Among drafted TEs since 2005, Michael Mayer:

+ 99th percentile age/team adj. production
+ 97th percentile team share of yards
+ 97th percentile career yards per game
+ 91st percentile TDs

— Hayden Winks (@HaydenWinks) April 11, 2023

 

(04-11-2023, 09:30 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: If Mayer is there at 28, he has to be given serious consideration. He's the most complete and pro ready TE in this draft, IMO.

Among drafted TEs since 2005, Michael Mayer:

+ 99th percentile age/team adj. production
+ 97th percentile team share of yards
+ 97th percentile career yards per game
+ 91st percentile TDs

— Hayden Winks (@HaydenWinks) April 11, 2023

 

Brad is all over this lol

But yeah, all for Mayer...

Michael Mayer is an interesting prospect.  After watching him run routes and interview, I personally thought to myself that he was a first round talent.  PFF says that he's one of just a couple of TEs from this class who can live up to lofty 1st round "difference maker" status(Washington wasn't one of them).  BUT: I'm not sure that most casual observers realize just how pedestrian of an athlete he is for a first round TE.  His 40 time is in the 66th percentile and his broad jump is in the 68th percentile for TE prospects.  His height is a hair above average.  His other measurables are not so hot.  Mayer's arm length is in the 7th percentile and his wingspan is in the 9th percentile.  This tells me that in the pros, he's not going to be so much a Y tight end as a big slot or move tight end, which is fine, so long as the coaching staff and teammates can figure out how to work him in and he plays his role.  https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/michael-mayer

I'd be happy with Mayer at 28.  Not ecstatic, a tad bit paranoid about 1st round TE over a position like RT or DE, but happy.  I'd also be happy with Washington.  And I'll say this about Washington and the coaching staff: if this coaching staff can actualize his potential, they will absolutely carve out a name for themselves in terms of greatest offensive minded coaches ever. That guy could be an unholy combination of Brandon Pettigrew and Mercedes Lewis. Downright freaky stuff.

(04-12-2023, 03:27 AM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Michael Mayer is an interesting prospect.  After watching him run routes and interview, I personally thought to myself that he was a first round talent.  PFF says that he's one of just a couple of TEs from this class who can live up to lofty 1st round "difference maker" status(Washington wasn't one of them).  BUT: I'm not sure that most casual observers realize just how pedestrian of an athlete he is for a first round TE.  His 40 time is in the 66th percentile and his broad jump is in the 68th percentile for TE prospects.  His height is a hair above average.  His other measurables are not so hot.  Mayer's arm length is in the 7th percentile and his wingspan is in the 9th percentile.  This tells me that in the pros, he's not going to be so much a Y tight end as a big slot or move tight end, which is fine, so long as the coaching staff and teammates can figure out how to work him in and he plays his role.  https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/michael-mayer

I'd be happy with Mayer at 28.  Not ecstatic, a tad bit paranoid about 1st round TE over a position like RT or DE, but happy.  I'd also be happy with Washington.  And I'll say this about Washington and the coaching staff: if this coaching staff can actualize his potential, they will absolutely carve out a name for themselves in terms of greatest offensive minded coaches ever.  That guy could be an unholy combination of Brandon Pettigrew and Mercedes Lewis.  Downright freaky stuff.

Well said.

Mayer is a good, safe selection.
He's proven he can produce in college.
He finds ways to get open, and he's athletic enough to give confidence he'll be fine in the NFL.
With that said, he's not such an elite athlete (like some others in this draft class) that can make people think he doesn't have as high of a ceiling.
High floor, but maybe not the highest ceiling due to athletic limitations.

Gresham might be a decent comp for Mayer.
Gresham's athletic scores were about the same as Mayer, but Gresham was about 10 lbs heavier.
Gresham was overall solid while in Cincy.
If Mayer could be what Gresham's Bengals career was (averaged 500-600 yards, 5 TDs per year), that'd be a solid selection for a late 1st rounder.

Man, seems the prognosticators have cooled a bit on Washington. I've seen a few mocks that have him going in the mid to late 2nd now.

(04-13-2023, 04:31 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Man, seems the prognosticators have cooled a bit on Washington. I've seen a few mocks that have him going in the mid to late 2nd now.

Maybe it is possible to get both Darnell's...