(04-22-2023, 10:30 AM)OSUfan Wrote: I understand what you are saying about Mayer but it could be argued that you can get the same benefits from the way that the Bengals use the TE with a higher ceiling and/or upside by not trading up and taking Washington or trading down and taking Washington. He as well eliminates the predictability by substitution factor and even more so in short yardage and goal line situations where you may go heavy with an additional lineman. You no longer have the need of bringing in that additional lineman and cause the defense to account for Washington as a receiver as well limiting the defense personnel that they can dedicate to stopping the run or stacking the middle of the field.


If you are including Jonah as a factor for trading up then how would you not worry about who would take him? A team is not going to take Jonah just to take Jonah.

I’m not worrying who would take Jonah I said for you not to worry. As far as TE I should involve Kincaid. But here’s a comment on Mayer “ However, Mayer is a full-service tight end capable of boosting a team's running and passing game immediately” . But I’m not maintaining moving up is to entirely focus on a TE. Robinson by moving up becomes a better possibility as does a better RT. It’s flexibility and is better than only getting a late draft pick for Jonah. This late in the draft teams are greedy on picks

(04-22-2023, 10:08 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Don’t worry who would take Jonah. We can pay a part of his salary this year if need be. Mayer can run block as well as any TE in the draft not named Washington. The Bengals like it that he’s the best combo of blocker and receiver in the draft. He is rated going at 24 by the top predictor. The Bengals have elite data like that. They have Irv Smith for this year and Sample for this year only. Mayer solidifies that position for years and eliminates the their nemesis of predictability of tipping their play by substitution. They want to address that at running back as well.

https://www.nfldraftbuzz.com/Player/Michael-Mayer-TE-NotreDame

Drew Sample was a great blocker in college and we moved up to get him......

(04-22-2023, 12:31 PM)spazz70 Wrote: Drew Sample was a great blocker in college and we moved up to get him......

That’s absolutely correct. Zac values a blocking tight end to a degree more than receiving. He started out as a TE coach at TAMU. But my point is Mayer can do both and is better than Hurst or Sample because he’s good at both. The staff realizes their vulnerability in subbing Perine and Sample to predictability and want to rectify that.

(04-22-2023, 01:11 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: That’s absolutely correct. Zac values a blocking tight end to a degree more than receiving. He started out as a TE coach at TAMU. But my point is Mayer can do both and is better than Hurst or Sample because he’s good at both. The staff realizes their vulnerability in subbing Perine and Sample to predictability and want to rectify that.

So then you are solidifying the point that Zac Taylor should have greater value for Washington than for Mayer. 

(04-22-2023, 10:00 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So then you are solidifying the point that Zac Taylor should have greater value for Washington than for Mayer. 

No I’m not. Washington is the better blocker but Mayer blocks well also but better receiver. Washington has very good upside. But as countless evaluations have said Mayer is ready right now to start and is the most ready and all around TE.

(04-22-2023, 10:55 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: No I’m not. Washington is the better blocker but Mayer blocks well also but better receiver. Washington has very good upside. But as countless evaluations have said Mayer is ready right now to start and is the most ready and all around TE.

I have no real issue with taking Mayer however I think ceiling has to come into account in the draft especially with a first round pick. I am not a fan of my first round pick just being a safe selection. I like Mayer and I do believe he is well rounded and solid. However,  I feel like when I watch him that I am watching a player who has peaked physically. What you see is what you are getting and that is the same three years from now.


With Washington I see a player who is physically dominating at the line of scrimmage and who's receiving ability has only had the surface scratched. His simple leaping ability provides a mismatch against virtually any defensive player in coverage. His ability to win contested catches is huge. With Washington I think in three years you see a much more refined receiver that can be a game changer.


Of course this is all just opinion.

(04-21-2023, 10:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Mayer,Kincaid, Robinson, Wright or Forbes.

I really like that list of guys. Plus Kancey. I am increasingly pessimistic any of them are around at #28. Ditto any of my other Tier 2 guys  (JSN, Flowers, Van Ness, Murphy, N. Smith, Banks). 

We need 3 from below that tier of players to go earlier to guarantee 1 is there: Addison, Johnston, Branch, Hooker, Torrence, Bresee, Hyatt seem most likely. The more WRs the better. 

#28 is valued at 660. #24 at 740. A difference of 80, which is a high 4th (#107). Our 3rd is worth #132, an overpay of 52 (a mid 4th). JAX 4th is worth 52. We get: #24 (740) and 121 (52) = 792. They get #28 (660) and #93 (132) = 792. Dead even. Not sure I love that, but I don't hate it. 

If we can land Wright, I like it more. It makes me more willing to deal Jonah. Heck, if Jonah's value is a late 3rd (#92), we can keep our 3rd if the Jags are interested,  or recoup it elsewhere. Or better it if his value is higher (I doubt it, though). 

Interesting idea. IDK about trading UP for TE, given the pisitional value & deep class. Robinsin is head & shoulders above the other RBs, but positional value is low & our line kinda sucks at run blocking. I like Forbes a lot, but would you give uo a 3rd to take him over Turner, Brents, or even a guy like Trice later on? 

(04-23-2023, 03:17 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: I really like that list of guys. Plus Kancey. I am increasingly pessimistic any of them are around at #28. Ditto any of my other Tier 2 guys  (JSN, Flowers, Van Ness, Murphy, N. Smith, Banks). 

We need 3 from below that tier of players to go earlier to guarantee 1 is there: Addison, Johnston, Branch, Hooker, Torrence, Bresee, Hyatt seem most likely. The more WRs the better. 

#28 is valued at 660. #24 at 740. A difference of 80, which is a high 4th (#107). Our 3rd is worth #132, an overpay of 52 (a mid 4th). JAX 4th is worth 52. We get: #24 (740) and 121 (52) = 792. They get #28 (660) and #93 (132) = 792. Dead even. Not sure I love that, but I don't hate it. 

If we can land Wright, I like it more. It makes me more willing to deal Jonah. Heck, if Jonah's value is a late 3rd (#92), we can keep our 3rd if the Jags are interested,  or recoup it elsewhere. Or better it if his value is higher (I doubt it, though). 

Interesting idea. IDK about trading UP for TE, given the pisitional value & deep class. Robinsin is head & shoulders above the other RBs, but positional value is low & our line kinda sucks at run blocking. I like Forbes a lot, but would you give uo a 3rd to take him over Turner, Brents, or even a guy like Trice later on? 

You are 100% correct in that a team will not give another team the opportunity to move up without receiving adequate compensation to do so and Jonah just is not a high enough return on investment for Jax to make the deal in the first.

(04-23-2023, 03:47 PM)OSUfan Wrote: You are 100% correct in that a team will not give another team the opportunity to move up without receiving adequate compensation to do so and Jonah just is not a high enough return on investment for Jax to make the deal in the first.

I vehemently disagree. Swapping picks with Tampa or Jacksonville and maybe swapping 2nd rounders is doable. The key is not having to give up a pick.

(04-23-2023, 04:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I vehemently disagree. Swapping picks with Tampa or Jacksonville and maybe swapping 2nd rounders is doable. The key is not having to give up a pick.

Can you please give me an example of teams simply swapping selections with no real compensation involved? If you want to move up there is a cost in that it is pretty plain and simple.

(04-23-2023, 05:35 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Can you please give me an example of teams simply swapping selections with no real compensation involved? If you want to move up there is a cost in that it is pretty plain and simple.

Pretty plain and simple getting Jonah if you need him and closing that hole in your lineup to pick another position. Without giving up a pick. Especially the two I mentioned. We aren’t talking about moving up a ton. Let’s let it play out

(04-21-2023, 08:43 PM)OSUfan Wrote: To begin with the consideration of trading down absolutely has to do with who is on the board when the Bengals selection rolls around at #28. I think that most people are aware that teams consider groups of players for their selections and more times than not it is not a single player or two that they are targeting for a selection.

Also of importance obviously would be who the potential trade is with and how far it would drop them down in the draft. Is there a possibility that they could still get a player within their grouping of players for the 28th selection or does it drop them down to their next tier of prospects? What are they going to get in exchange for the trade and how will it position them later in the draft?

I have put together 5 different trade scenarios for teams that could be looking to move up in the draft to position themselves for a target they did not expect to fall or to better position themselves for their grouping of prospects. These 4 teams all have the draft capital that would meet what you could expect the Bengals to ask for in a trade. All trades were graded in value against the draft trade calculator:

https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=cin

I will be posting 5 replies that will detail each of the trade scenarios which were all done on the MockDraftDatabase Simulator. In each simulation I attempted to go BPA or BPA in a position that made sense for the franchise.

I like all your trade scenarios and all the Mocks OSUfan, don't know which one I like the most honestly. Probably the Arizona trade and
getting Darnell Washington, love this guy and to trade back and get him would be ideal. I just think we really like Forbes so he will be the
pick so I like that mock a lot as well.

(04-23-2023, 05:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like all your trade scenarios and all the Mocks OSUfan, don't know which one I like the most honestly. Probably the Arizona trade and
getting Darnell Washington, love this guy and to trade back and get him would be ideal. I just think we really like Forbes so he will be the
pick so I like that mock a lot as well.

Thanks Nate. I would have no problem with either Washington or Forbes as I believe both are going to be outstanding Pros.

(04-23-2023, 06:45 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Thanks Nate. I would have no problem with either Washington or Forbes as I believe both are going to be outstanding Pros.

Same here, I just might be more interested in what DW can do with Burrow and being the #1 TE on a team.

So going on what I would do I would take DW, but Forbes would also be a fantastic pick and I will be happy if this is the case Thursday.