(12-21-2015, 04:48 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Someone else is already directing Episode VIII (Rian (sp?) Johnson is the name, I think). But, no reason he can't come back as a producer or something.

Random thoughts:

• Saw the movie yesterday and I liked it, though, TBH, I felt a little bothered with how close it came to being a 2015 version of A New Hope (hero comes from a desert planet, Death Star like weapon with a weak spot, old man/mentor gets killed by the bad guy with a red lightsaber, etc.). 
  
  That was kind of the purpose though, to reset the universe with these new characters and make them the focus not Han, Leia and Luke who would just be the co-stars. 
• I must say that I saw Han's death coming. I remember reading how Harrison Ford wanted Solo to die at the end of 5 or 6, but the clincher was the interaction with Leia before they headed off to the Starkiller base.
• I'm pretty confident there's not going to be any Vader-like redemption for Kylo Ren. I think his conflict occurred in this movie and his killing of Han solidified his turn to the dark side and the eradication of the light side within him; plus, there's just no coming back from killing your own father (at least, there better not be).
  
  Agreed 100%. He needs to stay bad now. 
• Speaking of Mr. Ben Solo, I'm not fond of his character. I liked Vader as a villain. He had PRESENCE. He didn't need to do anything to instill fear in those around him. Ren, as someone else put it earlier, is like a whiny teenage douchebag. I'm hopeful that now that he's embraced the dark side fully, he'll become a better villain, but so far, I'm not impressed.
  
  You got Vader as a master. Lord Vader. Kylo Ren is still learning. He's closer to Empire Strikes Back Luke than Vader. Angry, unsure of himself as a person...horribly conflicted. I liked that he wasn't a Vader clone like that. He gets to develop as a bad guy. You can't critique it for being a New Hope clone then get mad when they don't just serve up a Vader clone and actually give Ren some depth and growth. I hate Ren now more than I ever hated Vader. 
• Am I the only one nerd enough to notice that Ren's lightsaber was unstable (the light I mean)? It was staticy or not "pure". I'm hopeful this was intentional and to show that Ren's not a master of the force (yet?).
• I LOVED how they answered some of my questions with a line here or there and not with extemporaneously long backstories. For example, why Finn doesn't look like Jango Fett.
  
  This was brilliant writing. Giving depth and story without lingering and lumbering on things.
• Count me in as one of those who thinks Rey is Luke's daughter. 
• Is Supreme Leader Snoke a Sith Lord?
  
  I don't know if we are supposed to know the answer to this yet....
• BB-8 giving Ren the "thumbs up" had to have been the funniest moment in the movie. I'm still chuckling at the thought of it.
  
  Best non-sentient being since R2D2
• I dislike how the movie made Captain Phasma seem inept. She's supposed to be this badass chick in badass armor. Sort of like this trilogy's Fett. Yet, she was caught by a stormtropper and an old man, did what they wanted and was thrown in a garbage compactor. I know the character plays a bigger role in the Rogue movie, but c'mon, at least make her get away from them in a cool manner or have them work extra hard at capturing her or something.
  
  I think she was just introduced to get you ready for the other movies. I expect bigger roles soon. Besides, Fett only had 8 minutes of screen time in 2 movies and was killed by blind Han Solo on accident....Phasma is already half way there.
• Rey is very pretty (even more so if you've seen her with her hair down), but man does she have small boobs. What is she, a pre-teen or something?
  

That's all I got for now, but man, it's going to be a long wait 'til Episode 8 gets here.

IMHO, it's time for someone to invent the guardrail barrer in the galaxy.

A lot of people are expecting a lot from Kylo Ren. He is young and inexperienced. They haven't released an official timeline, but my guess is that he was seduced by Snoke as a teen and he is now in his mid to late 20's. He did not have a real childhood, he has been told that he is the rightful heir to the dark side as Vader's grandson, he has not completed his training, probably due to the fact that Snoke wants to control him.

He is perceptive, like when he knows it was Finn who defected, but he still underestimates everyone. He has an almost sibling rivalry with Hux.

He is a very troubled and incomplete person. He isn't the polished Sith lord that Vader was. He still is challenged frequently with turning back to the light side.

There has been an awakening.

The dark side ... and the light.

It's all in the title.

Both Rey and Ren just awaken.

Also, Ren is basically Anakin from Revenge. They're just as immature and have the same thoughts about their side's moral justification.

(12-21-2015, 07:00 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Also, Ren is basically Anakin from Revenge. They're just as immature and have the same thoughts about their side's moral justification.

Except Driver is pulling it off much better than Hayden did in Revenge. 

(12-21-2015, 05:40 PM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: Stormtroopers are not Clonetroopers.

I know, but because of a couple lines of dialogue in The Force Awakens, EVERYONE should know that now.

RoyleRedLegs Wrote:You got Vader as a master. Lord Vader. Kylo Ren is still learning. He's closer to Empire Strikes Back Luke than Vader. Angry, unsure of himself as a person...horribly conflicted. I liked that he wasn't a Vader clone like that. He gets to develop as a bad guy. You can't critique it for being a New Hope clone then get mad when they don't just serve up a Vader clone and actually give Ren some depth and growth. I hate Ren now more than I ever hated Vader.

I'm not upset that Kylo isn't a Vader clone; I'm actually glad about that. However, I still don't like him as a character.

RoyleRedLegs Wrote:[b]I think she was just introduced to get you ready for the other movies. I expect bigger roles soon. Besides, Fett only had 8 minutes of screen time in 2 movies and was killed by blind Han Solo on accident....Phasma is already half way there.[/b]

You're probably right, but, still, it was not a great introduction of her character, IMO.

(12-21-2015, 06:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: A lot of people are expecting a lot from Kylo Ren. He is young and inexperienced. They haven't released an official timeline, but my guess is that he was seduced by Snoke as a teen and he is now in his mid to late 20's. He did not have a real childhood, he has been told that he is the rightful heir to the dark side as Vader's grandson, he has not completed his training, probably due to the fact that Snoke wants to control him.

He is perceptive, like when he knows it was Finn who defected, but he still underestimates everyone. He has an almost sibling rivalry with Hux.

He is a very troubled and incomplete person. He isn't the polished Sith lord that Vader was. He still is challenged frequently with turning back to the light side.

The more I think about it, I think my dislike of the character really stems from the fact that he's in a leadership position when he's obviously not ready for it. As RRL put it, he's like Empire Luke; now imagine Empire Luke is thrust in the role of General. I don't think any of us would like him, then.

I like Ren as a villain. Like I've said he is not in control of his power because he is so based in anger but he can learn to control that. He is reckless with his destroying of all that equipment (twice). He has growth and he can become so much stronger, because his strength and sensitivity in the force is definitely there, but not complete.

(12-22-2015, 01:25 AM)eoxyod Wrote: I like Ren as a villain. Like I've said he is not in control of his power because he is so based in anger but he can learn to control that. He is reckless with his destroying of all that equipment (twice). He has growth and he can become so much stronger, because his strength and sensitivity in the force is definitely there, but not complete.

Part of the problem with Darth Vader, he was soooo cool and never really did anything on screen THAT evil and bad to where you were like, oh **** that guy.
It wasn't until the prequels we saw the really bad shit from him.
You liked him even though he was "bad"

Ren offed one of the most beloved characters in movie history let alone this franchise....his own father to boot. 

Ren's a dickface and I will never like him. Mission accomplished Star Wars. 

(12-21-2015, 10:52 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I'm not upset that Kylo isn't a Vader clone; I'm actually glad about that. However, I still don't like him as a character.




You're probably right, but, still, it was not a great introduction of her character, IMO.

Not sure what else they could do for a villain then. 


As for Phasma, with all the new awesome characters they did go in depth with (BB, Ren, Finn, Maz Kanata(lil bit), Rey) fitting more in with Poe and Phasma could have made it clunky. I understand where you are coming from thought. Just anticipate some battles with Phasma and Poe in Rogue....

(12-22-2015, 02:32 AM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Not sure what else they could do for a villain then. 


As for Phasma, with all the new awesome characters they did go in depth with (BB, Ren, Finn, Maz Kanata(lil bit), Rey) fitting more in with Poe and Phasma could have made it clunky. I understand where you are coming from thought. Just anticipate some battles with Phasma and Poe in Rogue....

Rogue One is about the mission to steal the Death Star blueprints and give them to Leia. Phasma and Poe wouldn't have been alive and if they were they'd be much to young to have a major part in that story.

(12-22-2015, 04:49 AM)Bryan Wrote: Rogue One is about the mission to steal the Death Star blueprints and give them to Leia. Phasma and Poe wouldn't have been alive and if they were they'd be much to young to have a major part in that story.

Poe was conceived right after the Battle of Endor, so he is about 30. The Shattered Empire 4 part comic they released in October focused on his parents who were pilots for the Rebellion. 

(12-22-2015, 01:25 AM)eoxyod Wrote: I like Ren as a villain. Like I've said he is not in control of his power because he is so based in anger but he can learn to control that. He is reckless with his destroying of all that equipment (twice). He has growth and he can become so much stronger, because his strength and sensitivity in the force is definitely there, but not complete.

Theres been some interviews with JJ where he sees this trilogy as not only a developing of the heroine but also the villain. Vader was already a developed BAMF, looks like they're going to build up both Ren and Rey, which will make for a great story.

One concern I have is the jump between each movie of at least a year. I feel like the training of both of them should play a big role, and the film shouldn't just skip ahead and have Jedi Rey and Sith (?) Ren. Would also be a great time to focus and flesh out Luke and Snoke. Either way, I trust em.

(12-22-2015, 12:26 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: Theres been some interviews with JJ where he sees this trilogy as not only a developing of the heroine but also the villain. Vader was already a developed BAMF, looks like they're going to build up both Ren and Rey, which will make for a great story.

One concern I have is the jump between each movie of at least a year. I feel like the training of both of them should play a big role, and the film shouldn't just skip ahead and have Jedi Rey and Sith (?) Ren. Would also be a great time to focus and flesh out Luke and Snoke. Either way, I trust em.

Hey, as long as they don't do an 80's movie style training montage ...

(12-22-2015, 12:32 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Hey, as long as they don't do an 80's movie style training montage ...

Come on.....it could be like Rocky IV....one red, one blue, it writes itself!

So some things in the novelization based on an earlier script:

Rey resists a voice in her head to kill Ren during the fight. I think it might be implied as Snoke's.

Ren feels awful in an inner monologue after he kills Han, like he feels less complete.

(12-22-2015, 04:31 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So some things in the novelization based on an earlier script:

Rey resists a voice in her head to kill Ren during the fight. I think it might be implied as Snoke's.

Ren feels awful in an inner monologue after he kills Han, like he feels less complete.

Interesting.

I really think people are making too much of Ren vs Finn and Rey.
I thought it was obvious with his outbursts and rage he wasn't focused and how many times did they bring up his unfinished training (like Luke)? On top of that, he had just been shot by Chewie's crossbow. 

Oh, and Ren recognizes Rey. There's something familiar about her to him.