(04-30-2023, 01:18 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Yep.

The same line that is getting Burrow pounded is also not very good at run blocking . . . yet.

I think they did really start to hit a stride there. Then the injuries started to pile up. I think we are set up to be better this season. But I'm a little shocked we didn't add any depth during the draft. 

(04-29-2023, 10:58 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Not this exact moment but there will be plenty of backs that become free agents and can produce as much as Mixon for next nearly the money.

Maybe, maybe not, some of those guys got cut too and you never know what kinda medical issues you will run into, but Zac apparently prefers Mixon. So there's that to deal with. 
 
I know some of  you just want him cut, but that's not happening obviously, then there is the take a pay cut group (this originated from ESPN, not the Bengals), which i don't mind that, but if he will take a paycut, then he will likely be extended for a couple more years..  Best way to handle all of this, just let him play out his contract and see what happens next year. At that point if he has another so-so year, then you can offer him a contract that is worthy of a so-so rb, or he can find a new team and we move on. 
 

(04-29-2023, 11:27 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Starting to believe he's coming back and he always was coming back. They didn't do enough to make him expendable...whether they tried or not.

*ding ding ding
Couple of us have been saying he's not going anywhere sans legal issues for quite a while.

(04-29-2023, 11:31 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sad.

On the other hand, doing better than Mixon is not THAT hard. Simply do not dance behind the line, see the hole and hit it hard and fast and don't go down on first contact.

Then go do it.

(04-29-2023, 11:31 PM)Joelist Wrote: Sad.

On the other hand, doing better than Mixon is not THAT hard. Simply do not dance behind the line, see the hole and hit it hard and fast and don't go down on first contact.

Honestly I think our OL has a lot to do with Mixons lack of production. He's never had a good line to run behind. I think that with our line improving and him on a contract year he produces this upcoming season.

(04-30-2023, 07:01 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Honestly I think our OL has a lot to do with Mixons lack of production. He's never had a good line to run behind. I think that with our line improving and him on a contract year he produces this upcoming season.

This board and our running backs? After the SB loss to LAR a ton on here wanted Perine shipped to Siberia. The staff and Zac were vilified for having Perine in the last few minutes instead of Mixon. Then Perine was irreplaceable this year and Mixon danced around and was slow. Oh they won’t admit it. The coaching staff knows how good Joe is and the reasons for struggles. It was the OL mostly. And I damn sure knew how they felt. I’ve been adamant that Mixon would be here in ‘23 and must have maintained it over 30 times. Barring legal issues. Mike M said the same. Nate the eliminator will vouch.

They would have drafted Bijan and Gibbs they were undecided but likely would have. Joe needs a good year to stay and with his salary vulnerable but he was always staying.

I believe both of Zac's statements can be true without him actually being here Week 1. For instance, Joe's future is with the team if he takes a pay cut. Also, Zac likes Joe Mixon regardless of if he's a Bengal.

The courts and/or his contract will determine if he's still here when the dust settles. Personally, I think he's living on borrowed time.

(04-30-2023, 09:11 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I believe both of Zac's statements can be true without him actually being here Week 1. For instance, Joe's future is with the team if he takes a pay cut. Also, Zac likes Joe Mixon regardless of if he's a Bengal.

The courts and/or his contract will determine if he's still here when the dust settles. Personally, I think he's living on borrowed time.

Did you watch it? He didn’t hesitate and his using the word future was very telling. Zac doesn’t play word games or coachspeak. Instead he just says little. Also Callahan was pretty convincing.

(04-30-2023, 09:16 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Did you watch it? He didn’t hesitate and his using the word future was very telling. Zac doesn’t play word games or coachspeak. Instead he just says little. Also Callahan was pretty convincing.

Unfortunately for Mixon, Bengals upper management will also be the ones he will have to convince that he's worthy of a roster spot.

(04-30-2023, 09:27 AM)2MinutesHate Wrote: Unfortunately for Mixon, Bengals upper management will also be the ones he will have to convince that he's worthy of a roster spot.

Certainly his legal issues notwithstanding are a part of it. But they’ve hashed out his roster spot long before the draft and free agency. . Can’t wait until now. They’ve made that decision.

(04-29-2023, 08:12 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: As long as nothing overly detrimental comes from this latest incident, I fully expect that the team will honor his contract. That's what MB and the Bengals have almost always done. MB is old school and a man of his word. When he gives it, he keeps it. I don't think that Collins or Jonah is going anywhere anytime soon either.

Couldn't agree more. 

The only guy in this draft who wouod have made Mixon immediately expendable was Bijan Robinson. Everyone else was an RB2 type, Perine's replacent. In role if not the type of back. Now if Chase Brown (or Trayveon) balls out this year, then next year may be different. 

Proven NFL players are hard to find. And hard to replace when drafting #28. We are not going to willing jettison guys who can still perform unless we absolutely have to. Or unless we have an obvious replacement in hand. We are trying to win the whole thing, we don't want to take steps backward voluntarily.

Same thing on the OL. Wright was about the only OL we could have drafter that would have made Jonah or Collins expendable right away. Anyone else would have had to prove they can play at this level first. Now  if Carman balls out this year, different conversation. 

We got better at OT, DE, WR, and punter. 

We changed out some deoth pieces at RB and CB. Where we certainly got faster. Chido is back & hopefully CTB improves.

Ditto the speed part at safety. 2 new guys + 2 guys we drafted from last year + Thomas. 

DT/NT room is unchanged, as is IOL and the top 5 LBs. 

We'll see at TE how Smith for Hurst goes. I do think Sample is better than Wilcox at #2. 




 

I'm not sure anyone is going to argue that Mixon is going to be on the roster at this point. It's more so disappointment that this is the case. I understand that he may be liked within the building but he isn't a quality back. I've argued this several times over the past couple of years. He will get you what the line gives him, so if we have a good offensive line he will look fine. He shouldn't be paid as highly as he is, but that about to be water un the bridge at this point. Maybe he takes a pay cut. That's primarily my argument. There is nothing that Mixon offers that a significantly cheaper option doesn't, aside from familiarity and locker room cohesion. He's a replacement level player on the field.

(04-29-2023, 08:34 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: At this point why would he take a pay cut?  He holds all the cards right now after the draft.

Because there are still free agents out there that would love to come in and replace him....

(04-30-2023, 09:58 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not sure anyone is going to argue that Mixon is going to be on the roster at this point. It's more so disappointment that this is the case. I understand that he may be liked within the building but he isn't a quality back. I've argued this several times over the past couple of years. He will get you what the line gives him, so if we have a good offensive line he will look fine. He shouldn't be paid as highly as he is, but that about to be water un the bridge at this point. Maybe he takes a pay cut. That's primarily my argument. There is nothing that Mixon offers that a significantly cheaper option doesn't, aside from familiarity and locker room cohesion. He's a replacement level player on the field.

Do you really think with his high salary and the fortitude to win with this window and determination of the team leaders and staff they’d keep him because he’s liked? With his recent legal issues would the owners be on board? He must get them all coffee and donuts lol. These guys want to win. If they felt they needed an upgrade they’d damn sure done it. Now next year is a whole other matter.

(04-30-2023, 11:28 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Do you really think with his high salary and the fortitude to win with this window and determination of the team leaders and staff they’d keep him because he’s liked? With his recent legal issues would the owners be on board? He must get them all coffee and donuts lol. These guys want to win. If they felt they needed an upgrade they’d damn sure done it. Now next year is a whole other matter.

If they want to win, Mixon has shown throughout his career he is nothing but a replacement level player. He simply isn't very good. He isn't bad, to be clear. He is roughly a league average back that is grossly overpaid. I have stayed consistent with that messaging. There have been rumors of a pay cut request. I have no idea if that will end up being true but if it occurs, then his salary will at least be in line with his production. That is my primary gripe with him. 

They may genuinely believe he is a great back in that coaching room but the evidence we have points to the contrary. If that is genuinely their viewpoint, I would count that as an evaluation mistake on the part of the front office. Again, he is a high volume/low efficiency player who struggles to create for himself. He is below average at breaking tackles and lacks the speed and quickness to avoid tacklers. He gets you what the offensive line gives him. If he comes out in 2023 and not only puts up efficient rushing numbers but also shows the ability to generate missed tackles at a significantly higher rate than his career average thus far, then I will gladly take it. I will count it as an outlier, but I will take it. I highly doubt that will be the case, though. If he takes a pay cut, I will also take that, but it would be nice to have a back who is able to do a bit more.

(04-30-2023, 12:00 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: If they want to win, Mixon has shown throughout his career he is nothing but a replacement level player. He simply isn't very good. He isn't bad, to be clear. He is roughly a league average back that is grossly overpaid. I have stayed consistent with that messaging. There have been rumors of a pay cut request. I have no idea if that will end up being true but if it occurs, then his salary will at least be in line with his production. That is my primary gripe with him. 

They may genuinely believe he is a great back in that coaching room but the evidence we have points to the contrary. If that is genuinely their viewpoint, I would count that as an evaluation mistake on the part of the front office. Again, he is a high volume/low efficiency player who struggles to create for himself. He is below average at breaking tackles and lacks the speed and quickness to avoid tacklers. He gets you what the offensive line gives him. If he comes out in 2023 and not only puts up efficient rushing numbers but also shows the ability to generate missed tackles at a significantly higher rate than his career average thus far, then I will gladly take it. I will count it as an outlier, but I will take it. I highly doubt that will be the case, though. If he takes a pay cut, I will also take that, but it would be nice to have a back who is able to do a bit more.

I’m not an expert and football coaching isn’t my expertise. It’s not yours either. I’ll let the staff decide that. They appear to have and I seriously doubt his popularity saved him. Bill Belichick called him the best back in the NFL a few years ago. The Carolina game and the Bills game showed he can still produce at a high level. Replacement level player? Can’t buy that. I can buy that he’s over paid. Now it appears that Dalvin Cook and Derrick Henry are too as their teams are trying to move them. It’s an evolving league for sure.

As far as the staff making an evaluation mistake they would have taken Bijan ( I know that for 1000%) They were seriously considering Gibbs. But they are likely moving on too eventually from a series of players like Tyler Boyd and Hilton and maybe Reader. It’s the business. But they were always expecting Mixon to be on the roster this coming season but no it wasn’t set in stone. This business is fluid.

If our O line improves to the point Mixon can "run well", he is an average RB. Classic case of taking credit and giving blame. O-line's fault when he's running poorly and Mixon's credit when the O-line is playing well.

(04-30-2023, 12:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’m not an expert and football coaching isn’t my expertise. It’s not yours either. I’ll let the staff decide that. They appear to have and I seriously doubt his popularity saved him. Bill Belichick called him the best back in the NFL a few years ago. The Carolina game and the Bills game showed he can still produce at a high level. Replacement level player? Can’t buy that. I can buy that he’s over paid. Now it appears that Dalvin Cook and Derrick Henry are too as their teams are trying to move them. It’s an evolving league for sure.

As far as the staff making an evaluation mistake they would have taken Bijan ( I know that for 1000%) They were seriously considering Gibbs. But they are likely moving on too eventually from a series of players like Tyler Boyd and Hilton and maybe Reader. It’s the business. But they were always expecting Mixon to be on the roster this coming season but no it wasn’t set in stone. This business is fluid.

Look, I don't want this to turn into some long drawn out argument over Mixon. We've done this many times over, you and I, going back to last season when you said Mixon was going to be an MVP candidate in 2022. You are a Sooner fan through-and-through and you're going to support the guy until the end. You constantly bring up the Carolina and Buffalo game while ignoring the myriad of games where he was terrible or nothing special. It fits your argument. The mountain of evidence we have suggests that Mixon is nothing more than a replacement level player. He gets you what you give him. Nothing more. If you disagree with that, then you're free to do so. For the Bengals sake, I hope your crimson-and-cream colored glasses end up being correct. 

(04-30-2023, 09:58 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'm not sure anyone is going to argue that Mixon is going to be on the roster at this point. It's more so disappointment that this is the case. I understand that he may be liked within the building but he isn't a quality back. I've argued this several times over the past couple of years. He will get you what the line gives him, so if we have a good offensive line he will look fine. He shouldn't be paid as highly as he is, but that about to be water un the bridge at this point. Maybe he takes a pay cut. That's primarily my argument. There is nothing that Mixon offers that a significantly cheaper option doesn't, aside from familiarity and locker room cohesion. He's a replacement level player on the field.

I think giving you what the offensive line gives you is what any running back in the league does. I know Mixon isn't a perfect back but he has been and can still be solid if the blocking is good. Now in hindsight if not signing him to a 2nd contract means we could keep Bates and potentially Bell and not have to spend 6 picks on the secondary the last 2 years. If we could've used some of those spots to add depth and talent to the OL than that probably would've been a worthy trade off. But again I'm not sure that couldn't be said about any back in the league. Maybe going forward with contracts for Burrow Chase and possibly Higgins that will be how we view the position and just continue to add 2nd or 3rd picks every 2 or 3 years. But I just think it's too late to be worried about a paycut. Not sure what it gets us at this point and unless he's willing to take a cheap 1yr deal after this season this will most likely be his last season with the Bengals.

(04-30-2023, 01:13 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I think giving you what the offensive line gives you is what any running back in the league does. I know Mixon isn't a perfect back but he has been and can still be solid if the blocking is good. Now in hindsight if not signing him to a 2nd contract means we could keep Bates and potentially Bell and not have to spend 6 picks on the secondary the last 2 years. If we could've used some of those spots to add depth and talent to the OL than that probably would've been a worthy trade off. But again I'm not sure that couldn't be said about any back in the league. Maybe going forward with contracts for Burrow Chase and possibly Higgins that will be how we view the position and just continue to add 2nd or 3rd picks every 2 or 3 years. But I just think it's too late to be worried about a paycut. Not sure what it gets us at this point and unless he's willing to take a cheap 1yr deal after this season this will most likely be his last season with the Bengals.

To the bolded, yes, that is essentially my entire position. He is a replacement level player - most backs are able to do what he does. So, from a value standpoint he is an awful investment. A pay cut is a bit moot at this point, I agree. It doesn't really benefit anyone. 

(04-30-2023, 01:03 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Look, I don't want this to turn into some long drawn out argument over Mixon. We've done this many times over, you and I, going back to last season when you said Mixon was going to be an MVP candidate in 2022. You are a Sooner fan through-and-through and you're going to support the guy until the end. You constantly bring up the Carolina and Buffalo game while ignoring the myriad of games where he was terrible or nothing special. It fits your argument. The mountain of evidence we have suggests that Mixon is nothing more than a replacement level player. He gets you what you give him. Nothing more. If you disagree with that, then you're free to do so. For the Bengals sake, I hope your crimson-and-cream colored glasses end up being correct. 

Agree, Mixon is nothing special and waayyyy overpaid! If he takes a fairly giant pay cut and they end up keeping him so be it. I'd say though there's a decent chance Chase Brown may end up with more snaps by the time this season is over.

(04-30-2023, 01:03 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: Look, I don't want this to turn into some long drawn out argument over Mixon. We've done this many times over, you and I, going back to last season when you said Mixon was going to be an MVP candidate in 2022. You are a Sooner fan through-and-through and you're going to support the guy until the end. You constantly bring up the Carolina and Buffalo game while ignoring the myriad of games where he was terrible or nothing special. It fits your argument. The mountain of evidence we have suggests that Mixon is nothing more than a replacement level player. He gets you what you give him. Nothing more. If you disagree with that, then you're free to do so. For the Bengals sake, I hope your crimson-and-cream colored glasses end up being correct. 

Well the staff doesn’t wear crimson and cream glasses. Glad we are aligned though about Joe. Hopefully with him not handicapped by a poor run blocking OL backed up by PFF and Football Outsiders our run game improves. Joe was the 7th best back in the pass. That’s pretty good and not replacement level.