(05-02-2023, 09:14 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I agree Wilson is a very good to great LB. But we just can't be silly because he's a Bengals. Just today The Ravens declined the 5th year on Patrick Queen, and The Cardinals declined the option on Isiah Simmons. Kenneth Murray and Jordan Brooks were also declined. That's some good to great LBs who will be looking for work next year.

To those saying others are silly: How much do we want to commit to Wilson this off-season?

Queen did not translate to what they thought he would, and no longer want him, instead paying Smith stupid money. As long as we went with poor linebacker play, now it seems people are not wanting to keep our best backer in a decade.

Wilson is younger than Pratt, is better in coverage than Pratt and is even more instinctive than Pratt. Love how Pratt rips
at the ball when a player is up in the air like he did to Kelce, but that might be the only thing Pratt has on Logan. Not to
mention Logan is the Captain of the Defense and relays the calls and reads plays better. You pay this man, wanted him
back more than Pratt in the first place, happy Pratt is back, but we don't want to go back to the old days of poor LB play
when you have proven players at the position.

Logan's shoulder is the only question and him being more of a stack LB than a pass rusher makes his price go down and
the fact Germaine got a very team friendly deal certainly makes it a lot easier to extend Logan.

(05-02-2023, 11:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Seems Tee is a fan of Simmons:

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2023/05/02/bengals-tee-higgins-recruiting-isaiah-simmons-free-agency/




Yo moms from cincy my boy… come to ya roots in a year

I was a big fan of simmons in the draft. Lou could find some uses for him if he's still here next season.

(05-03-2023, 01:48 PM)MasonDT70 Wrote: I was a big fan of simmons in the draft. Lou could find some uses for him if he's still here next season.

Arizona misused Simmons. He’d be a quality add on a 1-2 year prove-it deal. I’m in favor of re-signing Wilson as he’s easily the best LB on the team. 10-12 million a year is worth it for what he brings. The Bengals can always release Mixon and sign Fournette if money is an issue.

(05-03-2023, 09:07 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Queen did not translate to what they thought he would, and no longer want him, instead paying Smith stupid money. As long as we went with poor linebacker play, now it seems people are not wanting to keep our best backer in a decade.

It may seem that way, but that's not it. It's a simple case of supply and demand versus salary cap. Queen and Wilson joined the league in the same year and Queen beats him in every stat but INTs. 

(05-03-2023, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It may seem that way, but that's not it. It's a simple case of supply and demand versus salary cap. Queen and Wilson joined the league in the same year and Queen beats him in every stat but INTs. 

For a guy drafted in the 1st round, he should.  I'd venture to say that if it weren't for the Lamar Jackson deal, Queen might have had his 5th year option picked up while they negotiated an extension.  However, Queen is not alone in not having his option picked up, only 12 of 32 possible did.  I think that it's more economics than a testament on the player's performance.

If anything, it should benefit the Bengals in negotiations with Wilson, as there will be a glut of very talented LBs in the next free agency period.

(05-03-2023, 05:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It may seem that way, but that's not it. It's a simple case of supply and demand versus salary cap. Queen and Wilson joined the league in the same year and Queen beats him in every stat but INTs. 

Well you have to consider the system both are in as well. Wilson is just as essential to our Defense as Queen is to his. You aren't 
going to fill up the stat sheet in this system under Lou except maybe INT's and INT's are a big deal. Lou's Defense requires spread 
out accomplishment besides Hendrickson our sole elite pass rusher, until MM and maybe Ossai soon.

Logan's shoulder has been a problem for him in the past. If there is a pause on an extension, this is the reason.

(05-03-2023, 06:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For a guy drafted in the 1st round, he should.  I'd venture to say that if it weren't for the Lamar Jackson deal, Queen might have had his 5th year option picked up while they negotiated an extension.  However, Queen is not alone in not having his option picked up, only 12 of 32 possible did.  I think that it's more economics than a testament on the player's performance.

If anything, it should benefit the Bengals in negotiations with Wilson, as there will be a glut of very talented LBs in the next free agency period.

Yes sir Sunset. Took a bit for Logan to take the starting spot being a 3rd rounder. Also true on the Lamar deal skewing how 
things look for Patrick Queen, they will have to deal with losing a lot of good players. But the Pratt deal being reasonable makes
a Logan Wilson extension possible. If we would of overpaid for Pratt not near as possible.

(05-03-2023, 06:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: For a guy drafted in the 1st round, he should.  I'd venture to say that if it weren't for the Lamar Jackson deal, Queen might have had his 5th year option picked up while they negotiated an extension.  However, Queen is not alone in not having his option picked up, only 12 of 32 possible did.  I think that it's more economics than a testament on the player's performance.

If anything, it should benefit the Bengals in negotiations with Wilson, as there will be a glut of very talented LBs in the next free agency period.

As I said: It's simple supply and demand. I love Wilson, have him in my sig; but I understand the sacrifices we must make. 

KC is currently the king (we are the king slayers) and it seems their formula is to keep Mahomes, Kelce, a decent oline, and Chris Jones. Play Chess with the rest of the pieces. 

(05-03-2023, 07:44 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said: It's simple supply and demand. I love Wilson, have him in my sig; but I understand the sacrifices we must make. 

KC is currently the king (we are the king slayers) and it seems their formula is to keep Mahomes, Kelce, a decent oline, and Chris Jones. Play Chess with the rest of the pieces. 

I get that completely, and feel like they have a great roster management strategy.  I was only pointing out that with 20 of 32 5th year option players, several of them being LBs, not getting said 5th year taken up it plays well into the Bengals negotiating hands when it comes to retaining Logan Wilson.  There will be several very talented LBs hitting the free agency market next offseason that might not had their teams elected to use the 5th year option.

(05-02-2023, 04:05 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Boy oh boy, some of the arguments on here. Wilson is our best linebacker and it's not even close. And don't forget, without him the Ravens are playing KC last year instead of us.

PFF agrees it is not close. 

Pratt: 80.6
Wilson: 72.7

I agree their roles are different. But Pratt was the top coverage LB in the league, not Wilson. You can rag PFF all you want, but it isn't that hard to tell if a guy is open or not. Wilson has been more consistent year to year, certainly. But last year? Pratt was better. After Week 8, Pratt was the highest rated LB in the league (90.1). 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-free-agent-rankings-linebacker

Next year, salary junps:

1) Burrow +18 mil (+7.5 mil SB if extended)
2) Brown +6 mil
3) Possible Hggins extension
3) Wilson extension

Now, the cap will certainly jump some. But that figure does not even include the signing bonus for Burrow. +31 mil before we get to Tee. Say the cap jumps by $15 mil. +16 + Tee. IDK what kind of cap kung fu we can do to keep it down, but say it is a $15 mil increase. We need to save $30 mil from the rest of the team (assuming no one else gets a raise, which won't happen).

Williams at $12.6 comes off the books.
We can save $10+ mil by declining Mixon's option. That's $23 mil.

Reader ($15.5), Boyd ($10 mil), and Chido ($8) are all FAs. Cutting Collins could save $6 mil. Hilton & Karras around $6.5 each. Pratt $6.8. Those are your big tickets.

(05-03-2023, 07:55 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: PFF agrees it is not close. 

Pratt: 80.6
Wilson: 72.7

I agree their roles are different. But Pratt was the top coverage LB in the league, not Wilson. You can rag PFF all you want, but it isn't that hard to tell if a guy is open or not. Wilson has been more consistent year to year, certainly. But last year? Pratt was better. After Week 8, Pratt was the highest rated LB in the league (90.1). 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-2023-free-agent-rankings-linebacker

It WAS Pratt's best season by far no doubt about it. Hope he is trending even more up this year, we will see if he can do that while 
being a 3 down LB like Wilson does. He actually might get the chance he so desperately wanted to play on 3rd downs this year with 
his new contract, we will see how he does if this is the case. I really like ADG as well, which made it okay if we did lose Pratt, but he
took a very reasonable contract to stay here to win Superbowls, so good on him.

Pratt is an exception to the whole theory, these guys are only about the money. He could of gotten more money elsewhere I am sure.

I still think Logan has the higher upside out of both guys though and is the more complete LB.

Lost in all of this is how good of a job Bettcher has done with the Linebackers.

I was a little surprised by Logan in this pic. I think those shoulder surgeries have taken a toll on his muscle mass. His arms look a little doughy (no offense to anyone). I thought he was more solid built.

https://www.bengals.com/photos/cincinnati-bengals-practice-facility-photos-conditioning-training#ba219055-58e7-48e2-913c-62319afcd7b7

(05-04-2023, 12:43 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It WAS Pratt's best season by far no doubt about it. Hope he is trending even more up this year, we will see if he can do that while 
being a 3 down LB like Wilson does. He actually might get the chance he so desperately wanted to play on 3rd downs this year with 
his new contract, we will see how he does if this is the case. I really like ADG as well, which made it okay if we did lose Pratt, but he
took a very reasonable contract to stay here to win Superbowls, so good on him.

Pratt is an exception to the whole theory, this guys are only about the money. He could of gotten more money elsewhere I am sure.

I still think Logan has the higher upside out of both guys though and is the more complete LB.

Lost in all of this is how good of a job Bettcher has done with the Linebackers.

Good post. The LB room has developed nicely. We took Wilson, ADG, & Baily the same year. ADG's progress would have softened the blow somewhat if Pratt had left. But that applies to Wilson as well. 

I will say this, if you'd have let me keep only one of Pratt, Bates, Bell, & Hurst, I'd have kept Pratt. I think he is the best player (relative to others at his position) of the bunch, and the youngest (I think, close with Bates). The rub is, he only really had one good year. Bates & Bell have multiples. But paying Bates was crazy, and Bell is solid, better than average, but not exceptional. Pratt was exceptional last year, in my view. And in the POs the SB year. 

(05-03-2023, 08:11 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Next year, salary junps:

1) Burrow +18 mil (+7.5 mil SB if extended)
2) Brown +6 mil
3) Possible Hggins extension
3) Wilson extension

Now, the cap will certainly jump some. But that figure does not even include the signing bonus for Burrow. +31 mil before we get to Tee.  Say the cap jumps by $15 mil. +16 + Tee. IDK what kind of cap kung fu we can do to keep it down, but say it is a $15 mil increase. We need to save $30 mil from the rest of the team (assuming no one else gets a raise, which won't happen).

Williams at $12.6 comes off the books.
We can save $10+ mil by declining Mixon's option. That's $23 mil.

Reader ($15.5), Boyd ($10 mil), and Chido ($8) are all FAs. Cutting Collins could save $6 mil. Hilton & Karras around $6.5 each. Pratt $6.8. Those are your big tickets.

I don't think the cap jumps up as much as some think.

Yes, the cap has gone up $25 mill in 2022 and $16 mill in 2023, but that was after a $15 mill drop for 2021 due to COVID.
All in all, the cap has only increased by ~$25 mill since 2020.

I think we'll see the cap just go up ~$12-15 mill each season moving forward for the next few years. Nothing like the increase we saw for 2022.

Id rather just sign Logan than have to hope we draft a linebacker....and wed be drafting a guy hoping he became Logan so why not just keep Logan?


Yeah we probably arent signing anyone else on the D if we do but we are drafting very well lately.

Found this great article about Lou's defense the other day. It breaks down the different tamp 2 blitz packages Lou used as post snap rotations to compliment his heavy single high defense (cover 1/cover 3).

https://matchquarters.substack.com/p/the-bengals-brees-path

(05-11-2023, 05:32 PM)jj22 Wrote: I was a little surprised by Logan in this pic. I think those shoulder surgeries have taken a toll on his muscle mass. His arms look a little doughy (no offense to anyone). I thought he was more solid built.

https://www.bengals.com/photos/cincinnati-bengals-practice-facility-photos-conditioning-training#ba219055-58e7-48e2-913c-62319afcd7b7

I have never noticed him having noticeably low body fat. Here is an article from 2021 that has a photo of him. He looks largely the same. I don't think he has ever been a physically imposing figure in that regard, meaning low body fat. He is big, but not super lean. 

(05-15-2023, 01:15 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I have never noticed him having noticeably low body fat. Here is an article from 2021 that has a photo of him. He looks largely the same. I don't think he has ever been a physically imposing figure in that regard, meaning low body fat. He is big, but not super lean. 

Interesting. I've never noticed, but it caught my attention that last pic update. Good to know it isn't related to the injuries. 

(05-11-2023, 05:51 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Good post. The LB room has developed nicely. We took Wilson, ADG, & Baily the same year. ADG's progress would have softened the blow somewhat if Pratt had left. But that applies to Wilson as well. 

I will say this, if you'd have let me keep only one of Pratt, Bates, Bell, & Hurst, I'd have kept Pratt. I think he is the best player (relative to others at his position) of the bunch, and the youngest (I think, close with Bates). The rub is, he only really had one good year. Bates & Bell have multiples. But paying Bates was crazy, and Bell is solid, better than average, but not exceptional. Pratt was exceptional last year, in my view. And in the POs the SB year. 

Have to agree, we kept the right guy in Pratt. I know losing Bell initially hurt us all but with Nick Scott and Jordan Battle I think 
we should be fine at Strong Safety. Both are bigger and faster and can cover more ground. Dax Hill can be our rangy Safety.