The poor blocking has really stifled I believe the unpredictability of the offense. The poor run game has contributed as well as the substitution packages. Many of you are at a higher level than me on X’s and O’s. But if we are going to get Chase with single coverage we can’t live with 11 personnel. We were in it 83% of the time, Paul Dehner of the Athletic said today. I see more 00,01,and 10 personnel. A lot depends on Lovias and his development and Charlie Jones performance. But with the nonchalant emphasis in the draft on TE’s I’m curious if that’s a hint? No TE means they aren’t going to put a linebacker on Jones. If they are in a nickel or dime of course running the football successfully is paramount. Hopefully our run game is improved.

Want to make the OL look like All Pros? Forego Burrow heaving it down field where it takes a while for the OL to hold their blocks until downfield WRs open up. Forego Mixon dancing around in the backfield going side-to-side instead of North-South.

That will make the entire OL look better. Granted, we won’t score as much, but the OL will look great!

(05-09-2023, 01:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The poor blocking has really stifled I believe the unpredictability of the offense. The poor run game has contributed as well as the substitution packages. Many of you are at a higher level than me on X’s and O’s. But if we are going to get Chase with single coverage we can’t live with 11 personnel. We were in it 83% of the time, Paul Dehner of the Athletic said today. I see more 00,01,and 10 personnel. A lot depends on Lovias and his development and Charlie Jones performance. But with the nonchalant emphasis in the draft on TE’s I’m curious if that’s a hint? No TE means they aren’t going to put a linebacker on Jones. If they are in a nickel or dime of course running the football successfully is paramount. Hopefully our run game is improved.

I too think the poor OL performance has held the offense back, at least to some extent.
With that said, Pollack hasn't shown to be much of a miracle worker when it comes to OL performance, so I'm not going to think the OL can handle things without a TE run blocking or a RB pass blocking until I can actually see it for myself.

(05-09-2023, 01:48 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: Want to make the OL look like All Pros?  Forego Burrow heaving it down field where it takes a while for the OL to hold their blocks until downfield WRs open up.  Forego Mixon dancing around in the backfield going side-to-side instead of North-South.

That will make the entire OL look better.  Granted, we won’t score as much, but the OL will look great!

Joe Burrow went from 11th in Intended Air Yards/Pass Attempt in 2021 to 27th in 2022. He can't throw it much shorter.

10 personnel is something teams just don't do that often. Its one of those things that look good on paper but doesn't work well on the field or we would see it more. The Bengals did it in like the Patriots game a couple of times and it was ugly.

(05-09-2023, 02:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Joe Burrow went from 11th in Intended Air Yards/Pass Attempt in 2021 to 27th in 2022. He can't throw it much shorter.

This touches on the point I was going to make...

Need more speed out of the backfield and the slot and someone with the ability to make people miss and churn out more yards on all those checkdowns. It was sorely missing last year. 

The way to get more big plays from the passing offense is to improve the running game. You do that by forcing the LBs and Safeties to respect that you can and will run the ball right over them, thus leaving more one on one opportunities down field.

(05-09-2023, 01:48 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: Want to make the OL look like All Pros? Forego Burrow heaving it down field where it takes a while for the OL to hold their blocks until downfield WRs open up. Forego Mixon dancing around in the backfield going side-to-side instead of North-South.

That will make the entire OL look better. Granted, we won’t score as much, but the OL will look great!

(05-09-2023, 02:00 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Joe Burrow went from 11th in Intended Air Yards/Pass Attempt in 2021 to 27th in 2022. He can't throw it much shorter.

Yep after the first few games it was a huge switch to counteract the defenses

(05-09-2023, 02:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The way to get more big plays from the passing offense is to improve the running game.  You do that by forcing the LBs and Safeties to respect that you can and will run the ball right over them, thus leaving more one on one opportunities down field.

There are a lot of analytics that show that how effective you are running the ball doesn't mean anything when it comes to passing attack and how LBs drive on play action. 

(05-09-2023, 02:33 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Yep after the first few games it was a huge switch to counteract the defenses

That was Burrow showing maturity. Not forcing it down field (Steelers game) and just taking what the defense gave him. 

(05-09-2023, 03:24 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: That was Burrow showing maturity. Not forcing it down field (Steelers game) and just taking what the defense gave him. 

No doubt

(05-09-2023, 02:12 PM)Synric Wrote: 10 personnel is something teams just don't do that often. Its one of those things that look good on paper but doesn't work well on the field or we would see it more. The Bengals did it in like the Patriots game a couple of times and it was ugly.

See if LSU ran it a bunch. But you are right it’s not used a lot.

(05-09-2023, 02:12 PM)Synric Wrote: 10 personnel is something teams just don't do that often. Its one of those things that look good on paper but doesn't work well on the field or we would see it more. The Bengals did it in like the Patriots game a couple of times and it was ugly.

It's sad because it's possible that if Jones is a plug and play quality #4 and Smith Jr is injured again, that may be their best personnel on paper.  

You have to run well out of it and the RB has to block, which is questionable with our guys.  The threat of 4 guys being able to sit in zone or get open short, and Burrow's quick decisions should open running lanes. Don't be surprised if you don't see them use more of these looks with Brown at RB as the season progresses. 

(05-09-2023, 01:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The poor blocking has really stifled I believe the unpredictability of the offense. The poor run game has contributed as well as the substitution packages. Many of you are at a higher level than me on X’s and O’s. But if we are going to get Chase with single coverage we can’t live with 11 personnel. We were in it 83% of the time,Paul Dehner of the Athletic said today. I see more 00,01,and 10 personnel. A lot depends on Lovias and his development and Charlie Jones performance. But with the nonchalant emphasis in the draft on TE’s I’m curious if that’s a hint? No TE means they aren’t going to put a linebacker on Jones. If they are in a nickel or dime of course running the football successfully is paramount. Hopefully our run game is improved.

That is Zac Taylor’s base offense. It’s the offense he brought with him from the Rams. The Bengals will run that more than any other personnel grouping combined. Percentage wise, without checking, if they haven’t run 11 personnel more than any other team in the league they have probably been top 3 every year since Zac Taylor arrived.

A hint? For someone who pretends to know what the Bengals are thinking all the time Taylor said the interest in drafting a TE never came from them, but outside the building. It’s more than a hint. It’s the reality of the situation.

Maybe you should double check with your source about this more 00, 01, and 10 personnel that you see?

And your source should also tell you it’s what Burrow ran at LSU which is another reason why the Bengals have incorporated it into the offense.

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-how-joe-burrow-and-the-lsu-offense-went-from-unknown-to-unstoppable

Quote: From last year to this year, LSU’s usage of 11 personnel has increased by nearly 20%, and they've virtually eliminated plays from 10 personnel (10% to 0%) and 21 personnel (22% to .6%) packages.

Additionally, Brady and company have nearly wiped out any plays under center this season. Last year, 33% of the Tigers’ plays were executed in non-shotgun formations. This year, just over 3% of their plays have not been in shotgun.

“Yeah, I’m fired up about it. This is the kind of offense I’ve run since I was 13, 14 years old, so this is what I know so I can have a lot of input in it and tell them what I like.” – Joe Burrow on the new offense before the start of the 2019 season

As for the offense in 2023, we will see another year Zac Taylor uses 11 personnel more often than 30-31 other NFL teams (unless injury dictates otherwise) just like every other year because that’s what he does.

(05-09-2023, 11:20 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: That is Zac Taylor’s base offense. It’s the offense he brought with him from the Rams. The Bengals will run that more than any other personnel grouping combined. Percentage wise, without checking, if they haven’t run 11 personnel more than any other team in the league they have probably been top 3 every year since Zac Taylor arrived.

A hint? For someone who pretends to know what the Bengals are thinking all the time Taylor said the interest in drafting a TE never came from them, but outside the building. It’s more than a hint. It’s the reality of the situation.

Maybe you should double check with your source about this more 00, 01, and 10 personnel that you see?

And your source should also tell you it’s what Burrow ran at LSU which is another reason why the Bengals have incorporated it into the offense.

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-how-joe-burrow-and-the-lsu-offense-went-from-unknown-to-unstoppable


As for the offense in 2023, we will see another year Zac Taylor uses 11 personnel more often than 30-31 other NFL teams (unless injury dictates otherwise) just like every other year because that’s what he does.

Damn that is Zac Taylor’s offense ? Thanks for the info LMAO

(05-09-2023, 01:32 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The poor blocking has really stifled I believe the unpredictability of the offense. The poor run game has contributed as well as the substitution packages. Many of you are at a higher level than me on X’s and O’s. But if we are going to get Chase with single coverage we can’t live with 11 personnel. We were in it 83% of the time, Paul Dehner of the Athletic said today. I see more 00,01,and 10 personnel. A lot depends on Lovias and his development and Charlie Jones performance. But with the nonchalant emphasis in the draft on TE’s I’m curious if that’s a hint? No TE means they aren’t going to put a linebacker on Jones. If they are in a nickel or dime of course running the football successfully is paramount. Hopefully our run game is improved.

 

If a lot depends on Iosivas we are screwed, barring injury Im not sure they expect him to do much this year. 

(05-09-2023, 11:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote:  

If a lot depends on Iosivas we are screwed, barring injury Im not sure they expect him to do much this year. 

Going to a lot more 4WR sets depends on Iosivas development

(05-10-2023, 12:09 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Going to a lot more 4WR sets depends on Iosivas development

How many times did Taylor use 4 WRs last season? Or the year before? Or before that?

(05-09-2023, 11:35 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Damn that is Zac Taylor’s offense ? Thanks for the info LMAO

Well, you seem to be unaware proposing an increase in personnel groupings he rarely uses.

(05-10-2023, 01:14 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Well, you seem to be unaware proposing an increase in personnel groupings he rarely uses.

I’m just having fun withcha