(05-24-2023, 11:10 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Did Collins actually tear ligaments in his knee or just sprain them? At first they said it was his ankle then they came out and said it was his knee. I thought it was said that he tore his ACL and MCL but the time line of this just doesn't seem right to me so maybe I misread what the injury was.

I feel like his entire injury was a bit murky. Remember it wasn't that significant at first, and then it was? Then he said he could have played in the playoffs? Im not sure anyone really knows the full details around it. 

(05-25-2023, 02:22 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: I was thinking he was an obvious PUP list candidate. He obviously feels some urgency to get back quick.
Jonah is dealing with his own knee injury recovery. Another guy who could be a PUP candidate.  
Carman, Ford, and Adeniji are competing for the RT job while those two heal.
Add Zeus, Volson, Karras, Cappa, Hill, Scharping and Smith and that is 10 OL if we let Collins and Jonah get back to full health on PUP list.

Adeniji isn't competing for shit in my mind. Might as well DFA him now. 

(05-25-2023, 11:21 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's hard to imagine they carry Jonah and his 13 million on the roster if he "loses" the RG battle.

13 million on a depth piece is ridiculous. I wouldn't rule out him being traded IF LC takes the job.

Well, they won’t cut him. And if they don’t find a trade partner on the 13m deal then they will carry him.

What other option is there?

(05-25-2023, 11:24 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Well, they won’t cut him.  And if they don’t find a trade partner on the 13m deal then they will carry him.  

What other option is there?

If they can cut him and roll his cap number over then they should consider that - not sure of the logistics of it, though. 

And all of this is a big IF. I fully expect Jonah to be the starter but I've seen crazier stuff happen. 

(05-25-2023, 11:23 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Adeniji isn't competing for shit in my mind. Might as well DFA him now. 

Agreed.
If Adeniji makes this team, it means the other guys who didn't are just that much worse.
Adeniji has had 3 years to show what he can do, and I've been completely unimpressed with him the entire time.
He just will never have the anchor to not get bullied backwards on skates.

(05-25-2023, 11:25 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Agreed.
If Adeniji makes this team, it means the other guys who didn't are just that much worse.
Adeniji has had 3 years to show what he can do, and I've been completely unimpressed with him the entire time.
He just will never have the anchor to not get bullied backwards on skates.

I honestly feel like he's gotten worse over the years.

(05-25-2023, 11:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If they can cut him and roll his cap number over then they should consider that - not sure of the logistics of it, though. 

And all of this is a big IF. I fully expect Jonah to be the starter but I've seen crazier stuff happen. 

We eat the 12.6 if we cut him. It is not hard to grasp, for most, anyway. He won't be cut. 

As for a trade, he likely yields a 3rd round comp pick if he walks, so a trade will have to beat that. Though a trade oick would arrive quicker. 

Our post-season runs the last two years were largely derailed by o-line injuries. Reiff and then Collins/Cappa/Jonah. Having a little actual proven OT depth is a good thing. We lost both OTs in last year's run. 

IOL is still problematic in terms of depth. Hoping Kirkland/Brown blossom in preseason. 

(05-25-2023, 11:38 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We eat the 12.6 if we cut him. It is not hard to grasp, for most, anyway. He won't be cut. 

As for a trade, he likely yields a 3rd round comp pick if he walks, so a trade will have to beat that. Though a trade oick would arrive quicker. 

Our post-season runs the last two years were largely derailed by o-line injuries. Reiff and then Collins/Cappa/Jonah. Having a little actual proven OT depth is a good thing. We lost both OTs in last year's run. 

IOL is still problematic in terms of depth. Hoping Kirkland/Brown blossom in preseason. 

Neither Mixon or Williams will be cut. Too much lost money. Jonah is gone 100% next year. Mixon may actually be here. I get the vibe he feels like he owes us for drafting him and i actually expect him to resign for cheap.

(05-25-2023, 11:40 AM)Housh Wrote: Neither Mixon or Williams will be cut. Too much lost money. Jonah is gone 100% next year. Mixon may actually be here. I get the vibe he feels like he owes us for drafting him and i actually expect him to resign for cheap.

I'd be opposed to resigning him based off of his performance alone in 2022. He was not good. 

I'm absolutely shocked they did not redo his deal going into this year. 

(05-24-2023, 05:12 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Move the loser to LG.

Of course, injuries can always happen as well.

Why you call LC a loser?

(05-25-2023, 12:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why you call LC a loser?

Think he meant the loser of the RG battle. 

(05-24-2023, 05:12 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Move the loser to LG.

Of course, injuries can always happen as well.

If it were that easy. Unfortunately, across the league and right here in Cincy, we have seen tackles move inside who absolutely cannot play guard. 

(05-24-2023, 08:31 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: According to these guys, it was a 3 year deal.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/lael-collins-17403/#:~:text=2019%2D2024&text=La'el%20Collins%20signed%20a%202%20year%2C%20%2415%2C400%2C000%20contract%20with,average%20annual%20salary%20of%20%247%2C700%2C000.

I'll say this, he did look relatively comfortable in his lateral movement in that video.  However, he likely still has a long way to go.  It's easy to look good in gym clothes during a non-contact drill. Hopefully he can be the "injury insurance policy" this year, in case we need a strong veteran off the bench down the stretch.

Yeah, I'm hoping he's back, but while I see good lateral movement, I'm not seeing a lot of leg push in that drill. 

Adeniji should already have been cut. He has no anchor at all and misses too many assignments.

(05-25-2023, 11:05 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Absolutely. I do find it rather hilarious when people want to agree/disagree with PFF and their evaluations to fit their narrative. Truth of the matter is Volson was a starter on an OL that was humming along very nicely after the 3rd/4th game last year right up until the last couple games when 3 other starters went out.
This kid will improve greatly going into year 2. An entire year into the playbook, maturing physically, etc. 

The same guys dug in on the "Volson sucks" narrative are the same guys that were dug in on the "Taylor sucks" narrative, right up until Taylor smacked them with 2 AFCCG's, an AFC Championship and a Super Bowl that went to the last second. 

(05-25-2023, 12:17 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The same guys dug in on the "Volson sucks" narrative are the same guys that were dug in on the "Taylor sucks" narrative, right up until Taylor smacked them with 2 AFCCG's, an AFC Championship and a Super Bowl that went to the last second. 

Yep

(05-25-2023, 12:11 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yeah, I'm hoping he's back, but while I see good lateral movement, I'm not seeing a lot of leg push in that drill. 

Regaining the ability to move laterally is the name of the game, when it comes to rehabbing from ACL/MCL reconstructions.  Undoubtedly, he'll have to wear one of the steel hinge style braces for as long as he continues to play.

(05-24-2023, 11:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: Go find it on this forum - KillerGoose charted Volson versus the NFL average for Guards game by game - by season's end he was consistently at the average with flashes above it. In other words he developed properly all season. 

No.



KillerGoose

This is actually a good idea. I went ahead and plotted it out with a trendline included in the graph. I removed week one from the graph because of how atrocious it was, but the rolling averages after each week include week one. It just isn't plotted. 



Pressure percentage, Volson flirted with being an average NFL G but finished below average after a tough final week. 



Pretty much the same story for sack percentage. 



According to PFF grades, Volson didn't really improve much in run blocking as the season went on. He had a tough dip at the start of the season, rebounded towards the middle and was essentially a league average run blocker for the rest of the season. 

(05-25-2023, 11:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: If they can cut him and roll his cap number over then they should consider that - not sure of the logistics of it, though. 

And all of this is a big IF. I fully expect Jonah to be the starter but I've seen crazier stuff happen. 

5th year option salary becomes fully guaranteed the second or third day of the league year.  The only way the Bengals can get his salary off the books is to trade him.  If they cut him, he still gets paid the full amount and it counts against the cap, so there's no reason to cut Jonah.

(05-25-2023, 01:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No.



KillerGoose

This is actually a good idea. I went ahead and plotted it out with a trendline included in the graph. I removed week one from the graph because of how atrocious it was, but the rolling averages after each week include week one. It just isn't plotted. 



Pressure percentage, Volson flirted with being an average NFL G but finished below average after a tough final week. 



Pretty much the same story for sack percentage. 



According to PFF grades, Volson didn't really improve much in run blocking as the season went on. He had a tough dip at the start of the season, rebounded towards the middle and was essentially a league average run blocker for the rest of the season. 

What I don't get is that Volson actually graded worse at LG his rookie season than Carman did at RG his rookie season.  Lots of people wrote off Carman as a bust after his rookie year, while many consider Volson a quality starter.

I expected Volson to struggle as a rookie, as he was a small school prospect that was a Day 3 pick.  It's reasonable to expect him to show some improvement this year, but I don't see how anyone can say he did enough last year to not be in a TC battle for the starting job this year when we're looking at a 4 way battle at RT.  I would rather have a 3 way battle at RT and someone challenging Volson at LG.