(06-08-2023, 01:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't remember Volson getting beat either. It is somewhere in between, he wasn't as bad as you and Bfine make out and he wasn't 
great against Heyward and Simmons, but it was encouraging. Those guys manhandle a lot of starting Guards in the NFL and didn't 
manhandle Volson late in the season.

You guys don't need to go out of your way to hate on the guy. Sled is right on those line graphs, they don't mean shit.

You have NFL+ i believe. Maybe you need to go back and watch again.


It's not hate. It's honesty. Most of what i'm seeing from people here is hope and baseless claims of a year 2 jump. 

(06-08-2023, 11:13 AM)Joelist Wrote: Just remember that on an OL continuity is important. One of the reasons we had problems early last season was the line had 4 new starters who before Opening Day had never even taken a snap together - it showed. Once they had enough reps the cohesion improved and the line play did too, to the point that we hit a stretch before the injuries where they were pass blocking in the upper tier. This is also why you don't want to be moving linemen around a lot - a lot of the blocking depends on the linemen knowing instinctively what the others will do in a given situation.

While this doesn't mean you just leave a poor player in, it does mean that lineup changes are not the first resort but rather the last one.

The great part about supporting any argument is the litany of excuses that are available. 

(06-08-2023, 10:27 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're on drugs. I just watched the Pitt and Tenn games last night and that literally didn't happen. 

You can't blow smoke up my ass.

Really? How many sacks did he give up against those rushers?

Quote:PFF can grade Cordell Volson however they want...

In his last 3 games, he's faced off with Derrick Brown, Cam Heyward, and Jeffery Simmons...

He's allowed just 1 sack and 1 QB hit to that gauntlet. As a rookie, Volson has looked more like a vet than I ever expected.

— Willie Lutz (@willie_lutz) December 1, 2022

Quote:

Quote:CINCINNATI — Bengals rookie guard Cordell Volson is having a solid opening NFL season. PFF took notice of his play on Sunday against the Chiefs. Volson performed very well in the face of defensive lineman Chris Jones, one of the best interior defenders in the NFL.

"Volson had his highest-graded game of the season on Sunday in a massive win over the Chiefs," Mike Renner wrote. "He didn’t allow a single pressure on 42 pass-blocking snaps and finished with a 77.2 run-blocking grade."

(06-08-2023, 01:50 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You have NFL+ i believe. Maybe you need to go back and watch again.


It's not hate. It's honesty. Most of what i'm seeing from people here is hope and baseless claims of a year 2 jump. 

The one thing I do know Heyward usually has his way most seasoned vets let alone a rookie making his first start in week 1. I think we should wait judgment on Volson.It can't be easy learning the pro game for a rookie.

(06-08-2023, 02:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: The one thing I do know Heyward usually has his way most seasoned vets let alone a rookie making his first start in week 1. I think we should wait judgment on Volson.It can't be easy learning the pro game for a rookie.

No, certain people are entrenched in the narrative that Volson sucks. They refuse to see the good things and acknowledge at the same time he was playing next to a hobbled Williams, and just keep disparaging him. It's as if they now hope he fails so they can be right. 

(06-08-2023, 02:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No, certain people are entrenched in the narrative that Volson sucks. They refuse to see the good things and acknowledge at the same time he was playing next to a hobbled Williams, and just keep disparaging him. It's as if they now hope he fails so they can be right. 

Likely the same ones that are holding a candle for Jackson Carman to emerge as a perennial All-Pro. 

(06-08-2023, 02:25 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Likely the same ones that are holding a candle for Jackson Carman to emerge as a perennial All-Pro. 

I don't think the jury is in yet on Carman. He may turn out great, he may flounder. Of course the same thing can be said for Volson, but at least he's played a full season at his position against some of the best in the league and held up.

(06-08-2023, 01:50 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You have NFL+ i believe. Maybe you need to go back and watch again.


It's not hate. It's honesty. Most of what i'm seeing from people here is hope and baseless claims of a year 2 jump. 

I can watch the games on Gamepass later. I will do that. I am just going off of what I remember.

Sure sounds like hate to me, dude wasn't bad for a rookie playing next to a LT that was hurt and getting pushed around IMO.

(06-08-2023, 02:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Really? How many sacks did he give up against those rushers?

That is what I remember. Pretty good to only give up 1 sack and 1 pressure to all those stud DT's and having his best grade of 
the season against Chris Jones sure gives me some good feelings about the guy, but to each their own. I usually agree with Rfaulk
and Bfine, not here with Volson. I like the guy and think he should make a big leap this year playing next to Orlando Brown.

(06-08-2023, 02:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: The one thing I do know Heyward usually has his way most seasoned vets let alone a rookie making his first start in week 1. I think we should wait judgment on Volson.It can't be easy learning the pro game for a rookie.

For damn sure. Gives me hope that we can finally handle Heyward, that guy has been great forever.

(06-08-2023, 02:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No, certain people are entrenched in the narrative that Volson sucks. They refuse to see the good things and acknowledge at the same time he was playing next to a hobbled Williams, and just keep disparaging him. It's as if they now hope he fails so they can be right. 

Seems that way, don't know why.

I have my guys that I disparage a bit in Mixon and Jonah, but I acknowledge when they play well.

(06-08-2023, 02:26 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I don't think the jury is in yet on Carman. He may turn out great, he may flounder. Of course the same thing can be said for Volson, but at least he's played a full season at his position against some of the best in the league and held up.

Encouraged by Carman in the Playoffs and this Offseason coming into OTA's in great shape, we will see if he can play decent at RT.

Sure can move people once he gets his hands on them. Unlike Jonah when he was hurt. Looks like Jonah is working his ass off as well
and is getting healthy which is all great news on the OL front.

(06-08-2023, 02:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Really? How many sacks did he give up against those rushers?

So we're gonna throw out the excuses in the negative stuff about how other guys this and other guys that, but when we're talking about sacks, we're not gonna look at anything except the raw numbers. 

That's why i usually stay away from these debates. People dig in and see what they wanna see. It's all on film though and if anyone bothers to watch, what they're gonna see is a guy that needs a lot of improvement and wasn't quite average in doing his job. 

(06-08-2023, 02:14 PM)sandwedge Wrote: The one thing I do know Heyward usually has his way most seasoned vets let alone a rookie making his first start in week 1. I think we should wait judgment on Volson.It can't be easy learning the pro game for a rookie.

I don't have a problem with waiting. What i have a problem with is someone talking about how much he imporved and how he's a little better than average. He's simply not. It would be great if he gets there. I want the Bengals to have the best players possible and win all the games but i'm not gonna fall into that typical 'hope scenario' and say a dude is going to be really good when he's not shown anything that points to it. He doesn't show the talent to wait on several years while passing up an opportunity to upgrade his position. 

It's not gonna happen this year, so 10 months from now we will know much better the status of the LG position. 

(06-08-2023, 02:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: No, certain people are entrenched in the narrative that Volson sucks. They refuse to see the good things and acknowledge at the same time he was playing next to a hobbled Williams, and just keep disparaging him. It's as if they now hope he fails so they can be right. 

It's silly posts like this that make people want to be that way just so they can do that. 

Here's a crazy idea. Maybe some people just don't see the same improvements that others do and they're not willing to blindly speculate that things are going to get better without any basis to see it. And maybe some people have never said that Volson sucks, just that he's a bit below average. 


Ahhhh **** it. If he continues to be what he is, i'm just gonna go ahead and be that ***** that thows this shit up constantly. Why not? If you're already getting blamed for it, what is there to lose?

(06-08-2023, 02:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I can watch the games on Gamepass later. I will do that. I am just going off of what I remember.

Sure sounds like hate to me, dude wasn't bad for a rookie playing next to a LT that was hurt and getting pushed around IMO.


That is what I remember. Pretty good to only give up 1 sack and 1 pressure to all those stud DT's and having his best grade of 
the season against Chris Jones sure gives me some good feelings about the guy, but to each their own. I usually agree with Rfaulk
and Bfine, not here with Volson. I like the guy and think he should make a big leap this year playing next to Orlando Brown.


For damn sure. Gives me hope that we can finally handle Heyward, that guy has been great forever.


Seems that way, don't know why.

I have my guys that I disparage a bit in Mixon and Jonah, but I acknowledge when they play well.


Encouraged by Carman in the Playoffs and this Offseason coming into OTA's in great shape, we will see if he can play decent at RT.

Sure can move people once he gets his hands on them. Unlike Jonah when he was hurt. Looks like Jonah is working his ass off as well
and is getting healthy which is all great news on the OL front.

Some of you ***** need to get your hate meter checked. It's not my fault if your memories don't match what actually happened. 

BTW, Heyward was still throwing him around in the 2nd game.

(06-08-2023, 08:42 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is a bunch of bull as well. Collins was playing injured. Cappa was playing next to an injured Collins, and then when Collins was out I don't even remember right now who was RT, Adeniji? And you're going to ding the coaches because guys were hurt? Karras is the only one that dropping might be worrisome, but the eye test tells me Ted played just fine. 

Everything I typed was 100% accurate. Now, you can come up with "reasons" in an attempt to excuse it if you want; but it's not a bunch of bull.

 

(06-08-2023, 02:56 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's silly posts like this that make people want to be that way just so they can do that. 

Here's a crazy idea. Maybe some people just don't see the same improvements that others do and they're not willing to blindly speculate that things are going to get better without any basis to see it. And maybe some people have never said that Volson sucks, just that he's a bit below average. 


Ahhhh **** it. If he continues to be what he is, i'm just gonna go ahead and be that ***** that thows this shit up constantly. Why not? If you're already getting blamed for it, what is there to lose?

I'm sure there's not a single person on the Cincinatti Bengals that you, I, or any true fan wants to see fail. 

It's an undisputable fact that Cordel Volson was a below average starting OG last year.  I'm just not ready to make up things in my head that make him a good starting OG last year. Hopefully he improves this year and if he doesn't hopefully Pollack is not too stubborn to try to replace him. 

I received the "hate/ you want him to fail" moniker because I was hoping we were looking at an upgrade early in the draft. I can only assume now that those that like the Myles Murphy pick want Joesph Ossai to fail and/or hate him. Folks that like the Battle pick want Nick Scott to fail and hate Dax

(06-08-2023, 03:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'm sure there's not a single person on the Cincinatti Bengals that you, I, or any true fan wants to see fail. 

It's an undisputable fact that Cordel Volson was a below average starting OG last year.  I'm just not ready to make up things in my head that make him a good starting OG last year. Hopefully he improves this year and if he doesn't hopefully Pollack is not too stubborn to try to replace him. 

I received the "hate/ you want him to fail" moniker because I was hoping we were looking at an upgrade early in the draft. I can only assume now that those that like the Myles Murphy pick want Joesph Ossai to fail and/or hate him. Folks that like the Battle pick want Nick Scott to fail and hate Dax

(06-08-2023, 02:45 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So we're gonna throw out the excuses in the negative stuff about how other guys this and other guys that, but when we're talking about sacks, we're not gonna look at anything except the raw numbers. 

That's why i usually stay away from these debates. People dig in and see what they wanna see. It's all on film though and if anyone bothers to watch, what they're gonna see is a guy that needs a lot of improvement and wasn't quite average in doing his job. 

That makes no sense to me. You can point out reasons a guy might be bad, like playing next to a guy that was hurt or just not very good. But if someone is playing next to a guy that is hurt (Williams) and still does not allow many sacks or pressures, that makes his play even better than it looks. 

(06-08-2023, 03:12 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Everything I typed was 100% accurate. Now, you can come up with "reasons" in an attempt to excuse it if you want; but it's not a bunch of bull.

 

The Bull part was where the attempt to blame lowered scores on the coaches without taking into consideration guys were hurt. Of course their scores were lower.

I see some people aren’t a big fan of the data that I aggregated and plotted, even though it fits some narratives. Volson got better as the season went on and was playing close to league average level by the end of it. However, he was still below average, even if just slightly so. I don’t know why this is such a controversial thing.

For some posters to come in and say “those line graphs don’t mean shit” when they are quite literally just a visualization of his sack and pressure percentages is very strange. Especially when those same posters are arguing for Volson being better than people perceive and for the most part those numbers line up with what they are trying to argue.

(06-08-2023, 04:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The Bull part was where the attempt to blame lowered scores on the coaches without taking into consideration guys were hurt. Of course their scores were lower.

Karras and Cappa were not hurt and LC was fine until he injured his knee. UNLESS you think Pollack would play olinemen not prepared to start. 

I think it's more "bull' to come up with reasons they under-performed, such as blaming their teammates

(06-08-2023, 07:52 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I see some people aren’t a big fan of the data that I aggregated and plotted, even though it fits some narratives. Volson got better as the season went on and was playing close to league average level by the end of it. However, he was still below average, even if just slightly so. I don’t know why this is such a controversial thing.

For some posters to come in and say “those line graphs don’t mean shit” when they are quite literally just a visualization of his sack and pressure percentages is very strange. Especially when those same posters are arguing for Volson being better than people perceive and for the most part those numbers line up with what they are trying to argue.

I assume you're talking to those disagreeing with your graph who are pumping him up. I agree Volson was below average at his best last year.

It's all I've ever said. Do you feel otherwise?