(06-20-2023, 01:54 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: It will be interesting but this late I don’t see much happening. Doesn’t align with Zac/ Mike Brown. Mixon sounded very secure in his first public comments recently

I wouldn't really call it late. A lot of big signings are announced right before/around training camp. Mixon could feel secure because he's already willing to renegotiate his contract. He's always been a big 'team' guy. 

(06-20-2023, 02:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I wouldn't really call it late. A lot of big signings are announced right before/around training camp. Mixon could feel secure because he's already willing to renegotiate his contract. He's always been a big 'team' guy. 

I think based on my intel that’s been on target he’s been assured he’s safe this season only. Things are always fluid but there won’t be much here to see this year. But I wouldn’t rule out a trade in season if they got something for him.

(06-20-2023, 02:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think based on my intel that’s been on target he’s been assured he’s safe this season only. Things are always fluid but there won’t be much here to see this year. But I wouldn’t rule out a trade in season if they got something for him.

He doesn't have any real cause for concern as long as he's willing to renegotiate. It doesn't make any kind of financial sense for the Bengals to just allow his contract to ride, even if it's for one year. Let's say their thinking is, 'we let him play it out this year then cut him next year'. That's a pretty shitty way to do business, knowing you're going to cut him and it's stupid to pay him that much money for this year if your plan is to cut him next year.

It makes a billion times more sense to restructure and give him something over the next 2 or 3 years, at a reduced rate. He's not a Joe Burrow/Ja'Marr Chase type of importance to this offense. Running backs are a dime a dozen. 

In the grand scheme of things, a Mixon redo is not a priority over the other things in front of it--Burrow/Tee/Wilson. There's no need to get it done right now, so no news isn't really an indication of anything. 

(06-20-2023, 02:27 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: He doesn't have any real cause for concern as long as he's willing to renegotiate. It doesn't make any kind of financial sense for the Bengals to just allow his contract to ride, even if it's for one year. Let's say their thinking is, 'we let him play it out this year then cut him next year'. That's a pretty shitty way to do business, knowing you're going to cut him and it's stupid to pay him that much money for this year if your plan is to cut him next year.

It makes a billion times more sense to restructure and give him something over the next 2 or 3 years, at a reduced rate. He's not a Joe Burrow/Ja'Marr Chase type of importance to this offense. Running backs are a dime a dozen. 

In the grand scheme of things, a Mixon redo is not a priority over the other things in front of it--Burrow/Tee/Wilson. There's no need to get it done right now, so no news isn't really an indication of anything. 

Very well thought out but but I’m pretty sure that made more sense earlier. I think it’s status quo for Joe and next year at the end of the season they will see where they are at.

My intel says his contract will be reworked and announced right around the time training camp starts.

(06-20-2023, 04:30 PM)BengalBob Wrote: My intel says his contract will be reworked and announced right around the time training camp starts.

Well that wouldn’t entirely surprise me. But I doubt it. I think they are willing to pay him this year but move away next year. I doubt that he takes a big pay cut this year without longer term confessions and I don’t think that’s possible.

I agree with everyone saying Mixon needs to be more decisive, but the OL has been atrocious at run blocking during Taylor's tenure.
24th or worse every single year in YPA.

Get some better run blocking, and I think we'll see a much better Mixon.
Also, I'm excited to see what Chase Brown might be able to offer in relief/RBBC.

(06-20-2023, 04:36 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Well that wouldn’t entirely surprise me. But I doubt it. I think they are willing to pay him this year but move away next year. I doubt that he takes a big pay cut this year without longer term confessions and I don’t think that’s possible.

What are his options? Take a pay cut? Or get released and take a pay cut elsewhere? Not sure there's a bull market for treadworn RBs.

(06-20-2023, 05:55 PM)jason Wrote: What are his options? Take a pay cut? Or get released and take a pay cut elsewhere? Not sure there's a bull market for treadworn RBs.

Didn’t say the Bengals didn’t hold the cards. I’m saying they have chosen not to play them this season.

(06-20-2023, 04:59 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree with everyone saying Mixon needs to be more decisive, but the OL has been atrocious at run blocking during Taylor's tenure.
24th or worse every single year in YPA.

Get some better run blocking, and I think we'll see a much better Mixon.
Also, I'm excited to see what Chase Brown might be able to offer in relief/RBBC.

I'm not upset at all about Mixon being RB1 this year. He's a hard runner and a great teamate. It just doesn't make good financial sense to let his contract ride this year because he holds no cards. 

I know they like him a lot. I saw it when he signed the contract. I like him too i just wish he had better consistent vision and balance and i wish he was more of a threat to go the distance when he gets in the open. He just doesn't have the raw talent for a top 5 running back salary. I know there has been talk of 'a better line, a better Mixon'. That might be the case but the fact that you can cue up any Bengals game and see plenty of missed opportunities for Mixon because of bad decisions, shouldn't be ignored or diminished. 

31,   4,  9,  52,   3, 27, is his ranking in yards rushing year by year. 
27,   3, 17,  54, 15, 28, is his ranking in YPA year by year. 
23, 12, 17,  40,   4, 12, is his ranking in TDs year by year. 

He should be more around 8-9M per year, tops. He's a good quantity back but not a good quality back. 

(06-20-2023, 09:58 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I'm not upset at all about Mixon being RB1 this year. He's a hard runner and a great teamate. It just doesn't make good financial sense to let his contract ride this year because he holds no cards. 

I know they like him a lot. I saw it when he signed the contract. I like him too i just wish he had better consistent vision and balance and i wish he was more of a threat to go the distance when he gets in the open. He just doesn't have the raw talent for a top 5 running back salary. I know there has been talk of 'a better line, a better Mixon'. That might be the case but the fact that you can cue up any Bengals game and see plenty of missed opportunities for Mixon because of bad decisions, shouldn't be ignored or diminished. 

31,   4,  9,  52,   3, 27, is his ranking in yards rushing year by year. 
27,   3, 17,  54, 15, 28, is his ranking in YPA year by year. 
23, 12, 17,  40,   4, 12, is his ranking in TDs year by year. 

He should be more around 8-9M per year, tops. He's a good quantity back but not a good quality back. 

Based on the drastically change in the running back market Joe is definitely not a value. Anything but.

“Derrick Henry was out there for anyone. ‘You wanna come get Derrick Henry? Great, come get Derrick Henry. Never happened. There was no interest out there.”

Charles Robinson on the trade marker for Derrick Henry this offseason.

Dalvin Cook was released and his dead cap was 5 million. But the Vikings haven’t managed their cap well and not getting anything for him was poor.

The Vikings weren’t in the best of shape cap wise. The Bengals are until next year and then I think Joe will be at huge risk. They will honor it this year. With Perine gone they don’t want an inexperienced backfield. They really like Joe in the passing game. That’s obvious when in Solomon Wilcots podcast Zac was euphoric describing all Joe’s abilities. The Bengals don’t share this boards views on his abilities. That’s ridiculously evident. There’s been no hints in FA or the draft or any speculation on his contract. I think of course based on Joe’s play this year they will possibly convince him next year to take a 2 year deal for what he’s owed or release him with a much lower dead cap hit.

I'm cool with Mixon staying under two conditions:

1) Takes a pay but down to around 7 million.

2) Shows a clear understanding that he needs to stop dancing and hit the hole.

(06-20-2023, 10:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Based on the drastically change in the running back market Joe is definitely not a value. Anything but.

“Derrick Henry was out there for anyone. ‘You wanna come get Derrick Henry? Great, come get Derrick Henry. Never happened. There was no interest out there.”

Charles Robinson on the trade marker for Derrick Henry this offseason.

Dalvin Cook was released and his dead cap was 5 million. But the Vikings haven’t managed their cap well and not getting anything for him was poor.

The Vikings weren’t in the best of shape cap wise. The Bengals are until next year and then I think Joe will be at huge risk. They will honor it this year. With Perine gone they don’t want an inexperienced backfield. They really like Joe in the passing game. That’s obvious when in Solomon Wilcots podcast Zac was euphoric describing all Joe’s abilities. The Bengals don’t share this boards views on his abilities. That’s ridiculously evident. There’s been no hints in FA or the draft or any speculation on his contract. I think of course based on Joe’s play this year they will possibly convince him next year to take a 2 year deal for what he’s owed or release him with a much lower dead cap hit.

This is an argument i don't usually put any stock in, or get involved in. How those people with the Bengals and even former Bengals feel about him, i take with a grain of salt. I can see with my own eyes, the tape and the results, and match them up to his peers. I agree with everything you said in this post...i just don't like the "team loves him" angle. It's a given in most cases. 

If you put a skunk in front of me and tell me it's a lovely house cat, i'm not just going to believe you. I've seen plenty of cats and i've seen plenty of skunks. I know the difference.

(06-21-2023, 12:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is an argument i don't usually put any stock in, or get involved in. How those people with the Bengals and even former Bengals feel about him, i take with a grain of salt. I can see with my own eyes, the tape and the results, and match them up to his peers. I agree with everything you said in this post...i just don't like the "team loves him" angle. It's a given in most cases. 

If you put a skunk in front of me and tell me it's a lovely house cat, i'm not just going to believe you. I've seen plenty of cats and i've seen plenty of skunks. I know the difference.

I agree. I don't care that the team loves him, that is irrelevant to my opinion. I am not arguing that the team dislikes him, I am arguing that he isn't a very good back. He has been this way for the vast majority of his career, so we have plenty of evidence to back it up. He's simply okay. 

Again, the main issue with Mixon isn't his running style per say. It's his inability to make guys miss. His elusive rating is near the bottom in the NFL. That's really not what you want from a guy that has the type of role that he does in this offense.

Countless times we saw Burrow throw underneath to Mixon and he was unable to make the first or second guy miss.

(06-21-2023, 12:15 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Again, the main issue with Mixon isn't his running style per say. It's his inability to make guys miss. His elusive rating is near the bottom in the NFL. That's really not what you want from a guy that has the type of role that he does in this offense.

Countless times we saw Burrow throw underneath to Mixon and he was unable to make the first or second guy miss.

If you listen to Zac on Solomon Wilcots recent podcast he says emphatically the exact opposite.

Solomon Wilcots “ I’m sitting in pubs and coffee houses and get questions all the time about Joe Mixon and I keep telling them he’s a rare find and opposing coaches tell me we wish we had him”

Zac Taylor “Joe’s so physical especially when he’s out in space. Even if these guys take him down they pay the price for it and eventually you see on film they don’t want to do it anymore. It’s kinda Like when he makes them miss or runs them over. When he gets on the perimeter he helps he helps Tee and Ja Mar by wearing down those guys guarding them by wearing them down. He’s a great leader and before the game the opposing coaches are moaning about going up against him. We like his efficiency and in the passing game we love his effectiveness.

(06-21-2023, 12:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: This is an argument i don't usually put any stock in, or get involved in. How those people with the Bengals and even former Bengals feel about him, i take with a grain of salt. I can see with my own eyes, the tape and the results, and match them up to his peers. I agree with everything you said in this post...i just don't like the "team loves him" angle. It's a given in most cases. 

If you put a skunk in front of me and tell me it's a lovely house cat, i'm not just going to believe you. I've seen plenty of cats and i've seen plenty of skunks. I know the difference.

The coaches and players have a high regard for Joe. I was asking someone that’s been around the building and at practices a ton over the last 4 years. I ask him about Mixon. He’s a former College DC. When I ask him about Mixon ( too many times I guess lol) he always gives me that ridiculous deadpan look. He tells me all the time these guys want to win. These coaches lives depend on winning. He said trust me Mixon has full support of his teammates … and it’s his ability.

(06-21-2023, 12:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: If you listen to Zac on Solomon Wilcots recent podcast he says emphatically the exact opposite.

Solomon Wilcots “ I’m sitting in pubs and coffee houses and get questions all the time about Joe Mixon and I keep telling them he’s a rare find and opposing coaches tell me we wish we had him” Zac Taylor “ Joe’s so physical especially when he’s out in space. Even if these guys take him down they pay the price for it and eventually you see on film they don’t want to do it anymore. It’s kinda Like when he makes them miss or runs them over. When he gets on the perimeter he helps he helps Tee and Ja Mar by wearing down those guys guarding them by wearing them down. He’s a great leader and before the game the opposing coaches are moaning about going up against him. We like his efficiency and in the passing game we love his effectiveness.

Joe Mixon weighed in at 228 pounds at his Combine when he was just 21 years old and ran a 4.45 forty yard dash, so he was in shape.
Early in his career he may have dropped down to 220 pounds but now at age 26 I believe that he is playing at 225 pounds plus to 230 pounds.

Solomon Wilcotts should know (as a former NFL Safety) what it means to tackle a player of Mixon's size and strength during an NFL game.
Wilcotts said "Even if these guys take him down they pay the price for it". "He helps Tee and JaMar by wearing down those guys guarding them by wearing them down".

The Bengals appear to see a Strategic Advantage in having Mixon wear down defenders that may somewhat offset his lack of eye popping yards per carry or making people miss statistics. Similar to how large 330 plus pound Offensive Lineman can use their weight to wear down defenders as games draw on into the 3rd and 4th quarters. Anyone who may have wrestled in High School like I did would likely know how just a few extra pounds on an opponent can wear on you as a match goes on and on. It is a factor that Solomon Wilcotts implies is a Real Factor that can be used as one more tool to help a Team win at the NFL Level.

(06-21-2023, 01:28 PM)depthchart Wrote: Joe Mixon weighed in at 228 pounds at his Combine when he was just 21 years old and ran a 4.45 forty yard dash, so he was in shape.
Early in his career he may have dropped down to 220 pounds but now at age 26 I believe that he is playing at 225 pounds plus to 230 pounds.

Solomon Wilcotts should know (as a former NFL Safety) what it means to tackle a player of Mixon's size and strength during an NFL game.
Wilcotts said "Even if these guys take him down they pay the price for it". "He helps Tee and JaMar by wearing down those guys guarding them by wearing them down".

The Bengals appear to see a Strategic Advantage in having Mixon wear down defenders that may somewhat offset his lack of eye popping yards per carry or making people miss statistics. Similar to how large 330 plus pound Offensive Lineman can use their weight to wear down defenders as games draw on into the 3rd and 4th quarters. Anyone who may have wrestled in High School like I did would likely know how just a few extra pounds on an opponent can wear on you as a match goes on and on. It is a factor that Solomon Wilcotts implies is a Real Factor that can be used as one more tool to help a Team win at the NFL Level.

Actually Zac said all that. He was extremely effusive about Mixon on the podcast.

https://bleav.com/shows/bleav-in-bengals/episodes/head-coach-zac-taylor-on-bengals-2023-draft-picks/

(06-21-2023, 01:21 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The coaches and players have a high regard for Joe. I was asking someone that’s been around the building and at practices a ton over the last 4 years. I ask him about Mixon. He’s a former College DC. When I ask him about Mixon ( too many times I guess lol) he always gives me that ridiculous deadpan look. He tells me all the time these guys want to win. These coaches lives depend on winning. He said trust me Mixon has full support of his teammates … and it’s his ability.

I always like getting that look when I am concerned about something and then I ask an Expert who then sets my mind at ease.
He may have been thinking that fans questioning Mixon should put on a helmet and some pads & go find out what it is like to tackle Mixon.
NFL defenders are paid well to tackle Mixon, however, Zac & Solomon Wilcotts are telling everyone that those paid defenders respect Mixon as a player while often paying a price of stamina plus pain bringing him down.

With that said, Mixon will be 27 years old in July and his time with the Bengals may be drawing down with Big money due to Burrow etc. It will be interesting to see exactly what type of running back traits the Bengals seek out to replace Mixon when that time comes. In the mean time, that "ridiculous deadpan look" you got from that former College DC tells me that Mixon can handle his job in 2023 especially if the Offensive Line improves.