(07-06-2023, 12:11 PM)Go Cards Wrote: He belongs but not yet, plus he the way he left may have slowed it.

Remember his last game as soon as it ended he took just about everything off except pants and threw it into the stands right beside me, shoulder pads, helmet and all, while cursing the Bengals as he was doing so.

Yep. He dissed us on the way out. 

I can go for a while before I get to Dillon.

Parrish, Boomer, Geno, & Chad for sure. 

I put Dillon in with AJ, Montoya, Whit, Krumrie, Fulcher, Reggie Williams, Brooks, Casanova, Johnson, Dunlap, Pickens, & Edwards. 

YMMV, of course. 

I don't get Dillon's beef. The age thing makes no sense, Chad is the only one who was a Bengal AFTER Dillon. Paul Brown, Munoz, Riley, K Anderson, Curtis, Boomer, and Big Willie (barely) all predate Dillon. And they all have longer tenures here: Dillon had 7 years, Boomer 9, Chad 10, Curtis 12, Munoz 13, Big Willie 13, Riley 15 (all time leader in games played at one point), K. Anderson 16.

Munoz & Riley are HOFers. Ken Anderson & Boomer were league MVPs. Munoz (9), Big Willie (3), Chad (2), and Riley, Ken Anderson, & Boomer all made 1st team all-Pro, something Dillon never did. And they all made more Pro-Bowls except Boomer, who made an equal number.

In terms of Approximate Value? Dillon is tied for 31st. Munoz is 1st. Kenny 2nd. Riley 3rd. Big Willie 4th. Boomer 5th. Geno 6th. Dalton 7th. Chad 8th. Whit & Reggie Williams tied for 9th. 11-20: Montoya, Green, Curtis, Parrish, Brooks, Bob Johnson, Krumrie, Petko, Dunlap, Edwards.


https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/career-av.htm

CD is the best HB (and maybe RB outright) this team has had.

He broke 2 LONG-STANDING rushing records, for god's sake.

(07-20-2023, 03:18 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/career-av.htm

That moment you realize Matt Ryan apparently has the 14th highest career AV in NFL history and Emmitt Smith is tied with Eli Manning for 26th. Lol

Jim Brown is 201st, tied with the same AV as Tiki Barber and Joe Flacco, 105 spots BEHIND Cam Newton.

Here's one that the Steelers fans would love. Troy Polamalu is 31 spots behind Alex Smith and 49 spots behind Joe Flacco.

(07-20-2023, 03:22 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: CD is the best HB (and maybe RB outright) this team has had.

He broke 2 LONG-STANDING rushing records, for god's sake.

That's debatable. While a Bengal CD had 9,543 total yards, 50 total TDs, and averaged 4.3 YPC. James Brooks had 9,449 total yards, 60 total TDs, and averaged 4.8 YPC. 

I loved CD as a Bengal, but I personally don't think he was the best HB in our history, nor do I blame folks for knocking him down a peg on 2 for his attitude and off-field actions. 

Hell, the best Baseball player to ever lace up a pair of spikes can't get into the HOF. 

(07-20-2023, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's debatable. While a Bengal CD had 9,543 total yards, 50 total TDs, and averaged 4.3 YPC. James Brooks had 9,449 total yards, 60 total TDs, and averaged 4.8 YPC. 

I loved CD as a Bengal, but I personally don't think he was the best HB in our history, nor do I blame folks for knocking him down a peg on 2 for his attitude and off-field actions. 

Hell, the best Baseball player to ever lace up a pair of spikes can't get into the HOF. 

Relative to team and league, he was definitely the best. Again, he set 2 single-game records and it's not like they were outliers: he had huge production game in, game out.

And we've been over this: Rose isn't even a top 50 player of all-time (if you include pitchers).

(07-20-2023, 03:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That moment you realize Matt Ryan apparently has the 14th highest career AV in NFL history and Emmitt Smith is tied with Eli Manning for 26th. Lol

Jim Brown is 201st, tied with the same AV as Tiki Barber and Joe Flacco, 105 spots BEHIND Cam Newton.

Here's one that the Steelers fans would love. Troy Polamalu is 31 spots behind Alex Smith and 49 spots behind Joe Flacco.

AV is a GREAT stat... but also, very relative.

Of course JB's would be small: he didn't play long-enough.

AV per season is a better barometer

(07-20-2023, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: That's debatable. While a Bengal CD had 9,543 total yards, 50 total TDs, and averaged 4.3 YPC. James Brooks had 9,449 total yards, 60 total TDs, and averaged 4.8 YPC. 

I loved CD as a Bengal, but I personally don't think he was the best HB in our history, nor do I blame folks for knocking him down a peg on 2 for his attitude and off-field actions. 

Hell, the best Baseball player to ever lace up a pair of spikes can't get into the HOF. 

CD was the team in the time he played. JB had the team around him.

(07-20-2023, 04:42 PM)sandwedge Wrote: CD was the team in the time he played. JB had the team around him.

JB was a better overall player and shared way more carries than CB and was a class act not a class ass..lol

(07-20-2023, 04:15 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Relative to team and league, he was definitely the best. Again, he set 2 single-game records and it's not like they were outliers: he had huge production game in, game out.

And we've been over this: Rose isn't even a top 50 player of all-time (if you include pitchers).

You may have been over this with your drunk Canadian friends who have Joey Votto and Fergie Jenkins in their top 50. 

Pete Rose is the best player in the history of the game. 

As to the JB/Dillon debate, Between 1968 and 2005 there was one player who was active during that time who had 30 TDs rushing and 30 TDs Catching. Marshall Faulk joined the club in 2005 

(07-20-2023, 04:57 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: JB was a better overall player and shared way more carries than CB and was a class act not a class ass..lol

I give the nod to JB but he had issues as well. He failed to pay Child Support for a while. 

(07-20-2023, 06:05 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I give the nod to JB but he had issues as well. He failed to pay Child Support for a while. 

Well we just put in a guy that beat was convicted of domestic battery. Damn we are off to a bad start if we put JB in after Chad

(07-20-2023, 04:57 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: JB was a better overall player and shared way more carries than CB and was a class act not a class ass..lol

JB had 1 more year than CD with the Bengals, so a couple of his stats will be more. Also, JB was a dead beat dad....So don't go thinking he was a saint..

(07-20-2023, 07:25 PM)sandwedge Wrote: JB had 1 more year than CD with the Bengals, so a couple of his stats will be more. Also, JB was a dead beat dad....So don't go thinking he was a saint..

Well Chad had his transgressions also, as a bengal of rhe three I felt  JB conducted himself on field better and would vote him over dillion 

Ignoring anything with Dillion that didn't happen on the playing field, I still see him behind everyone going into the RoH and it's not even close. As time goes on, it gets murky.

Currently, his attitude, ( not saying back then, but now ) can sour the fans and organization even more. He still values his Pats time more than the Bengals, ( I mean, I get it ), and I wouldn't put it above him to cause some kind of controversy once selected. He was King Turd on Poop Mountain. Those teams were horrible and he didn't take over the league with his play. And modernly, as you see, RBs are not even thought of the same now.

Some talk about others who left on not the greatest terms, but I wouldn't think, say, Carson Palmer would be a diva about it. Yes, he is a great player in the history of the Bengals. That is without question. Also, the teams has had other great players and some changed the team into legit teams/contenders.

(07-20-2023, 06:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You may have been over this with your drunk Canadian friends who have Joey Votto and Fergie Jenkins in their top 50. 

Pete Rose is the best player in the history of the game. 

As to the JB/Dillon debate, Between 1968 and 2005 there was one player who was active during that time who had 30 TDs rushing and 30 TDs Catching. Marshall Faulk joined the club in 2005 

While Rose is a stone cold A-hole (met him once) I really enjoyed watching him play for the Big Red Machine. While I would say he gave more effort than any other major leaguer, I can't say he's the best baseball player....EVER. That puts him against Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron, Reggie Jackson, Willie Mays (not Hays). There's a huge list of players, and I'm nopt  even sure he was better than many of the other BRM players like Bench or Morgan

(07-20-2023, 06:04 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You may have been over this with your drunk Canadian friends who have Joey Votto and Fergie Jenkins in their top 50. 

Pete Rose is the best player in the history of the game. 

As to the JB/Dillon debate, Between 1968 and 2005 there was one player who was active during that time who had 30 TDs rushing and 30 TDs Catching. Marshall Faulk joined the club in 2005 

I can be the hit king if I play 50 years too, especially if I hit 9 million singles

He's not even a top 3 Red:

1. Larkin
2. Bench
3. Robinson

Hell, Votto has a case now at this point in his career.

And no, I don't drink because of my cancer and nobody up here whom I associate with, has ever been intellectuallly-capable of discussing the sport of baseball with me; I was talking about (AND fully understanding) runs created and other sabermetrics when I was 9 years old. I played Fantasy Baseball for the first time, in 1999, when I turned 10. When I watch 8 Men Out, I feel the baseball scenes and dialogue in my soul.

It's why when it comes to football, I'm much more-willing to step back and compromise my opinion, because I may not be as well-versed...

... But if you think Pete Rose is anything better than a top 40 player in league history, you're the biggest Homer that ever homed.

I can argue this until one of us dies: you will NEVER be right.

And I've got facts and stats to back it up, not feelings and nostalgia.

(07-20-2023, 09:27 PM)Sled21 Wrote: While Rose is a stone cold A-hole (met him once) I really enjoyed watching him play for the Big Red Machine. While I would say he gave more effort than any other major leaguer, I can't say he's the best baseball player....EVER. That puts him against Mickey Mantle, Lou Gehrig, Barry Bonds, Hank Aaron, Reggie Jackson, Willie Mays (not Hays). There's a huge list of players, and I'm nopt  even sure he was better than many of the other BRM players like Bench or Morgan

I remember hearing about a report on Rose early in his career. Scout said he gets from Home to 1st in 4.5 seconds. Folks were not overly impressed because the average time is about 4.3. What's the rest of the story...?

(07-20-2023, 10:20 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I can be the hit king if I play 50 years too, especially if I hit 9 million singles

He's not even a top 3 Red:

1. Larkin
2. Bench
3. Robinson

Hell, Votto has a case now at this point in his career.

And no, I don't drink because of my cancer and nobody up here whom I associate with, has ever been intellectuallly-capable of discussing the sport of baseball with me; I was talking about (AND fully understanding) runs created and other sabermetrics when I was 9 years old. I played Fantasy Baseball for the first time, in 1999, when I turned 10. When I watch 8 Men Out, I feel the baseball scenes and dialogue in my soul.

It's why when it comes to football, I'm much more-willing to step back and compromise my opinion, because I may not be as well-versed...

... But if you think Pete Rose is anything better than a top 40 player in league history, you're the biggest Homer that ever homed.

I can argue this until one of us dies: you will NEVER be right.

And I've got facts and stats to back it up, not feelings and nostalgia.

Major League records:

Most career at-bats – 14,053
Most career plate appearances – 15,890
Most career hits – 4,256
Most career singles – 3,215
Most career times on base – 5,929
Most career games played – 3,562
Most career winning games played – 1,972
Only player to play at least 500 games at five different positions – 1B (939), LF (671), 3B (634), 2B (628), RF (595)
Most career runs by a switch hitter – 2,165
Most career doubles by a switch hitter – 746
Most career walks by a switch hitter – 1,566
Most career total bases by a switch hitter – 5,752
Most seasons of 200 or more hits – 10 (shared)
Most consecutive seasons of 100 or more hits – 23
Most consecutive seasons with 600 or more at-bats – 13 (1968–1980) (shared)
Most seasons with 600 at-bats – 17
Most seasons with 150 or more games played – 17
Most seasons with 100 or more games played – 23

Not even Top 50 your facts and stats say?

You’re my boy, Truck but Larkin as the greatest Red of all time is absolutely wild.