(07-24-2023, 06:19 PM)Synric Wrote: How much do we think Mike Brown is involved in contract negotiations now? I'm guessing its very little and more up to Katie, Paul, and Troy.

I think it was always Katie and Troy negotiating them. MB is a big picture guy.

(07-24-2023, 01:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I think it is.  The cap went up roughly $20 million last year.  That's basically adding another huge contract to the cap.

23 - 224
22 - 208
21 - 182
20 - 198
19 - 188
18 - 177
17 - 167

As long as we don't have another pandemic, we should see the cap continue to rise by roughly 20 per year.

Even more once the full gambling revenues show us in the pot. That's why agents this year were telling players to take shorter contracts, because the cap is about to go WAY up.

(07-24-2023, 10:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Chase is on a rookie deal for 3 more years. It can be done.

Likely guys like Reader and Hendrickson will be gone when their contracts are up. That will be the cost of 2 high paid WRs.

Probably wouldn’t re-sign those 2 anyway. Bengals aren’t typically big on 3rd contracts. Especially for a guy like Reader who’s missed a lot of games.

(07-24-2023, 06:09 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: You don’t understand why I seasonally post about a seasonal team playing a seasonal game?

Just say that you’re still butthurt that I was right about Jeremy Hill and Jackson Carman.

The book on Carman is not written yet by a long shot. 

(07-24-2023, 10:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Probably wouldn’t re-sign those 2 anyway. Bengals aren’t typically big on 3rd contracts. Especially for a guy like Reader who’s missed a lot of games.

Yep.

(07-24-2023, 02:52 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: If they do sign all 3 then Wilson becomes even more valuable for this team.  They will need him to help with the young guys because I don’t see Reader or Hendrickson getting another contract with the Bengals.  Age/$ will be too high so I expect a big DT within the first 2 rounds of next years draft.

Reader will most likely be re-signed, but it won't be as big as a contract as he got last time because he's older. Murphy will replace Hendrickson.

(07-24-2023, 10:32 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Reader will most likely be re-signed, but it won't be as big as a contract as he got last time because he's older. Murphy will replace Hendrickson.

It depends. Some team might throw him a big offer. Look how much we had to pay BJ Hill.

(07-24-2023, 03:10 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Yep. Wilson, Boyd, Chido, Reader, Hendrickson, Williams, & Collins.
All those guys won't fit. Some will. 

But that is a NEXT year problem.

Boyd (Charlie Jones), Henderickson (Myles Murphy) Williams (Orlando Brown) and Chido (CTB or DJ Turner) already have their replacements on the team. 

(07-24-2023, 06:23 PM)Nepa Wrote: I would think Mike Brown could come up with a better analogy than comparing players to hogs:

"We have some good players that need to be fed," Brown said. "That's a challenge. It's mathematical. You get a bag of corn and you have 10 hogs. Well, you're going to put that out to them. The bag's going to be empty. And some of them aren't going to get it."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38064059/bengals-prep-challenge-looming-contract-negotiations

Yes I also got a chuckle out of that. Obviously keeps his hogs in the left field 

(07-24-2023, 01:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I think it is.  The cap went up roughly $20 million last year.  That's basically adding another huge contract to the cap.

23 - 224
22 - 208
21 - 182
20 - 198
19 - 188
18 - 177
17 - 167

As long as we don't have another pandemic, we should see the cap continue to rise by roughly 20 per year.

Except salaries aren't stagnant, they rise along with the cap so you're not just getting magically more cap space with the same costs. If us on a message board know the cap is going to rise roughly $20m/yr, multi-millionaire agents who professionally negotiate cumulative billions of dollars worth of contracts also know it and they're going to negotiate accordingly.

Top 5 QBs averaged 2021: $40.4m/yr
Top 5 QBs averaged 2022: $47.2m/yr

Top 5 WRs averaged 2021: $20.9m/yr
Top 5 WRs averaged 2022: $27.4m/yr


In 2023 QBs have seen a $51m/yr deal and a $52m/yr deal, with Burrow and Herbert still to go and the Chiefs already talking about having to give Mahomes more money too. Justin Jefferson is still going to reset the top of the WR market this offseason as well.

(07-24-2023, 10:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Chase is on a rookie deal for 3 more years. It can be done.

Likely guys like Reader and Hendrickson will be gone when their contracts are up. That will be the cost of 2 high paid WRs.

Williams makes $12.5 and Collins $9. One of those guys will be gone after this year, maybe both. We'll start there. 

Boyd ($10 mil) & Chido ($8 mil) are guys who will possibly go if they do not take a haircut. We already have drafted potential replacements. 

For me, Reader is foundational and will be back. No replacement for him. 

Wilson will get extended if it is reasonable. But we don't have a replacement, though ADG is decent. 

(07-24-2023, 10:36 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Boyd (Charlie Jones), Henderickson (Myles Murphy) Williams (Orlando Brown) and Chido (CTB or DJ Turner) already have their replacements on the team. 

Uh, Jonah is still starting at RT. Collins couod fit there, he is signed for 1 more year. Carman COUOD be the long term replacement, but that is a stretch as of now. 

Hendrickson is signed for two more years. 

(07-24-2023, 11:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Williams makes $12.5 and Collins $9. One of those guys will be gone after this year, maybe both. We'll start there. 

Boyd ($10 mil) & Chido ($8 mil) are guys who will possibly go if they do not take a haircut. We already have drafted potential replacements. 

For me, Reader is foundational and will be back. No replacement for him. 

Wilson will get extended if it is reasonable. But we don't have a replacement, though ADG is decent. 

I was watching the NFL channel and Reader was knocking his guy so far back into the backfield. He just knocks the ______ out of people.

(07-24-2023, 10:29 PM)Sled21 Wrote: The book on Carman is not written yet by a long shot. 

Okay, keep telling yourself that.

We're on year 3 and he's been a Okayish spot on some shit O lines.

He's ass. I know the Bengals haven't done him any favors with the position changes but come on.

(07-24-2023, 01:50 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think that much is obvious, though. If their sole objective is to sign Higgins/Chase/Burrow then of course they can get it done. What I glean from Mike's comment is that is not the sole objective, but is one of them. I would guess that there is concern about tying up that much cap into three players and losing multiple other pieces that are viewed as highly important. That is the point of contention as I have understood it within this discussion. 

Is it possible? Absolutely, but is it feasible? I'm not entirely convinced. 

Yeah. I don't care how much the cap goes up. You know what else goes up with the cap? Salaries. It's not like you're falling into all this new money.

It's absoulety stupid as hell to try and sign Chase AND Higgins, with what they'll be paying Burrow. If you sign all three, then you lose 2 guys on defense that you could have otherwise signed. 

(07-24-2023, 10:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Chase is on a rookie deal for 3 more years. It can be done.

Likely guys like Reader and Hendrickson will be gone when their contracts are up. That will be the cost of 2 high paid WRs.

We have Higgins for next 2 years, too many other positions to sacrifice,  we won't be resigning  oline etc, WRs are easier to replace than Oline. 

(07-25-2023, 12:47 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: We have Higgins for next 2 years, too many other positions to sacrifice,  we won't be resigning  oline etc, WRs are easier to replace than Oline. 

Only if he is content to play for $3m this year, which is far from guaranteed. Then he would have to sign his franchise tag, which is also not guaranteed.

Players now have the hold-in route, and the "injured" route while they pump social media and the like with dissatisfaction and trade demands. He would get at least 4yr/$100m from someone if he was traded and extended, but if he has another couple concussions in 2023 while playing for $3m, that money would start shrinking.

(07-24-2023, 11:03 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Williams makes $12.5 and Collins $9. One of those guys will be gone after this year, maybe both. We'll start there. 

Williams is only starting (maybe)  because Collins is injured.

Boyd ($10 mil) & Chido ($8 mil) are guys who will possibly go if they do not take a haircut. We already have drafted potential replacements. 

Agreed

For me, Reader is foundational and will be back. No replacement for him. 

Agreed

Wilson will get extended if it is reasonable. But we don't have a replacement, though ADG is decent. 

Wilson may have to sign for less than he's worth. The linebacker market went to crap this year with all the big name releases. If that trend continues, linebacker stock goes down. I have no doubt they'll re-sign him.

(07-24-2023, 11:42 PM)NotBigzo Wrote: Okay, keep telling yourself that.

We're on year 3 and he's been a Okayish spot on some shit O lines.

He's ass. I know the Bengals haven't done him any favors with the position changes but come on.

Yeah, he's now all of 23.... past his prime, right?

(07-24-2023, 10:43 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Except salaries aren't stagnant, they rise along with the cap so you're not just getting magically more cap space with the same costs. If us on a message board know the cap is going to rise roughly $20m/yr, multi-millionaire agents who professionally negotiate cumulative billions of dollars worth of contracts also know it and they're going to negotiate accordingly.

Top 5 QBs averaged 2021: $40.4m/yr
Top 5 QBs averaged 2022: $47.2m/yr

Top 5 WRs averaged 2021: $20.9m/yr
Top 5 WRs averaged 2022: $27.4m/yr


In 2023 QBs have seen a $51m/yr deal and a $52m/yr deal, with Burrow and Herbert still to go and the Chiefs already talking about having to give Mahomes more money too. Justin Jefferson is still going to reset the top of the WR market this offseason as well.

That's a point that isn't well understood. Every year salaries go up. And some contracts go up later in the deal too.