(08-08-2023, 05:19 PM)wanga Wrote: Encouraging but this sounds familiar TC/pre season talk. Everyone’s training the house down.

If it was just coming from a coach, I would definitely agree. Coaches tend to talk up the guys to the point you can have unrealistic expectations.
I tend to take it more of a truthful observation now that we have guys like Rapien, Liscow, and Goldsmith mentioning it.
I would think (or hope) they would be more neutral in how a player is doing than a coach would.

(08-08-2023, 04:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Hells to the no. Adeniji is badbad. LC is a servicable RT. Keep him and Carman for backup roles. The RT has been injured at the end of the season in the last 2 years. I want as many decent guys as i can have and Adeniji isn't one of those guys.

I would 100% cut Collins and take that cap savings.  He wasn't lights out last year and he's coming off a major knee injury.

Keep LC and put him on IR. The dude could replace any position except C at a high level. We're not going to spend the Cap money we save by cutting him this year.

(08-08-2023, 08:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Keep LC and put him on IR. The dude could replace any position except C at a high level. We're not going to spend the Cap money we save by cutting him this year.

Yeah, no way I cut him.  They have tackle depth that has to be among the best if not the best in the league when Collins is healthy.  We've watched the wheels fall off of potential championship teams for two straight years when the o-line sustained injuries.  Keep Collins in house for an insurance policy.  The second we lose a tackle we'll be pretty lucky to have a replacement of his caliber.

(08-08-2023, 08:19 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would 100% cut Collins and take that cap savings.  He wasn't lights out last year and he's coming off a major knee injury.

That wouldn't necessarily be a wise move. LC is much better than the guys that played RT in the playoffs the last 2 years and he's not making so much money that cutting him would make much of a difference with the cap. 

He doesn't need to be lights out. He just needs to be equal or better to what he was last year. 

What a great problem to have with all of this competition. I've been kind of hoping Kirkland would start standing out from what I read about him from his college days. I really dunno if he'll make the squad with all this competition. Even Bleacher Report listed him as an UFDA that would probably make the team. Anyone know how he's doing?

(08-08-2023, 05:07 PM)Synric Wrote: The Offensive Tackle class for 2024 is deep. There's 3 getting top 15 pre-season talk. Joe Alt, JC Latham, and the kid from Penn State who's name you have to google every time lol. 

I think I said this somewhere else but the 2024 draft looks like its gonna be the best entire draft class since 2021. 

Hope you’re right because we will likely be picking at or near the bottom of each round excluding comp picks.

(08-08-2023, 08:19 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I would 100% cut Collins and take that cap savings.  He wasn't lights out last year and he's coming off a major knee injury.

Hell no.  Cutting him right now yields us a whopping 2-3M.  Its a couple million more once he is healthy but that will be game 5 at the soonest.  We have missed having a Lombardi trophy twice all because of the oline and we finally get good depth and you want to cut it for a few million????? 

Somebody kill me.

This is the best I've felt about the oline in 8 or 9 years. We have a lot of depth at this point at tackle. Love our center. It's great to see Williams working hard at RT--great to see him healthy too. Not sure about backup guard but I think this unit can do well.

The team overall has a lot of depth all over the place. Even if Burrow misses some time I think we'll be in the playoff picture. Hopefully guys can stay healthy this year come playoff time.

Listening to Orlando Brown Jr with Kay Adams he said Jonah had really been doing well. I think the continuity of the interior OL is going to be helpful. Orlando Brown Jr works hard and really cares. Volson has to take a step up in his second year. The guy did pretty good coming from FCS. I think this OL could surprise even the most optimistic posters on here. If…I know it’s a colossal if… the OL is top 10 this offense will be the most dynamic in the league.

(08-08-2023, 11:34 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Hell no.  Cutting him right now yields us a whopping 2-3M.  Its a couple million more once he is healthy but that will be game 5 at the soonest.  We have missed having a Lombardi trophy twice all because of the oline and we finally get good depth and you want to cut it for a few million????? 

Somebody kill me.

Right, and not like we NEED the money to upgrade another position

I have never been a big fan of Jonah, I hope he does well at RT. I just don't want to see him overpowered and knocked into the backfield.

(08-08-2023, 08:56 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Keep LC and put him on IR. The dude could replace any position except C at a high level. We're not going to spend the Cap money we save by cutting him this year.

Exactly...
And while I like Volston, I think a healthy Collins is an upgrade at LG.


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(08-08-2023, 03:56 PM)basballguy Wrote: My hot take....cut LC.  I said this last year when we signed him...it's quite possible he was just a bad OL nestled between an All Pro guard and an All Pro TE.  Then he had one year with Dalton Schultz who is also no slouch...

Well, I don't actually know if that's a hot take....and I also wouldn't say Adjeni is better than LC either...but we at least drafted him so I'd be partial to keeping him.

Not so sure that I can get on board with that plan.  LC is a far superior player than Adeniji can ever be.  Adeniji was drafted for his athleticism and ability to play 4 positions on the OL.  Going into his 4th season now, and he never developed that physical power to handle strong pass rushers or drive defenders off the ball.  LC has been dealing with physical injuries for several years, hopefully the time off for the knee surgeries has also allowed his back to heal properly.  If he worked hard to get "lighter on his feet" during his rehab process, he should look like the player we hoped we were getting when we signed him.

(08-09-2023, 12:26 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Exactly...
And while I like Volston, I think a healthy Collins is an upgrade at LG.


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Upgrade might be a stretch.  Maybe last year before the injury and since Volson was a rookie.  But generally during year 2 OL make a big jump.  The fact that Volson played from day 1 gives him a head start.  I wouldn't be surprised if he plays lights out this year.  

A healthy LC didn't impress last year before the injury so I find it hard to believe he'll do any better coming off the injury, even at LG.  

(08-08-2023, 03:56 PM)basballguy Wrote: My hot take....cut LC.  I said this last year when we signed him...it's quite possible he was just a bad OL nestled between an All Pro guard and an All Pro TE.  Then he had one year with Dalton Schultz who is also no slouch...

Well, I don't actually know if that's a hot take....and I also wouldn't say Adjeni is better than LC either...but we at least drafted him so I'd be partial to keeping him.

Im not sure how this makes any sense?  LC was an excellent olineman at Dallas.  Schultz was not massive blocker he is only 244 pounds.  

LC has always been better than Adeniji.  

This seems so far off base that I am not sure if this is a serious post or satire.

(08-09-2023, 11:34 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not sure how this makes any sense?  LC was an excellent olineman at Dallas.  Schultz was not massive blocker he is only 244 pounds.  

LC has always been better than Adeniji.  

This seems so far off base that I am not sure if this is a serious post or satire.

(08-09-2023, 11:44 AM)basballguy Wrote: God forbid you disagree with someone without insulting them in some way.  
Grow up.  ***** Fredtoast junior here.

I think what it comes down to is, who is the better OT out of Collins, Ford, Adeniji, and Smith?

From what we've seen of Adeniji, I never want to see him take another snap.
Collins isn't what he was in his prime in Dallas, but I have optimism to think he's better than Adeniji and someone who has only been able to push for 56 offensive reps across 2 seasons (Smith).

Smith was at 294 lbs last year though, and he's now weighed in at 309 lbs, so maybe he's finally built up the necessary power and anchor. I'm not overly optimistic though since we've basically heard zilch on him through 2+ weeks of TC.

(08-08-2023, 12:29 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Hearing from multiple people Jonah is doing really well at RT so far in TC.
Liscow and Rapien talked about it yesterday in LOB podcast. Charlie Goldsmith tweeted about it as well, saying he's "getting ready to call the right tackle battle because of how good Jonah Williams has looked."
Frank Pollack was quoted saying, "It looks like he (Williams) has been there (RT) for years."

If this plays out, the biggest question on the OL might finally be answered, and it now becomes how far along has Volson come with a full offseason?
It would be unfortunate for Jackson Carman not grabbing a starting gig in his 3rd season, but he's competing with D'Ante Smith as the swing tackle.

Happy it is not just the coaches talking up Jonah and it is some people without a bias. Sure hope Jonah plays great, I have heard it has
been a really good battle between him and Jackson which is what I wanted to hear. Carman needs to get more consistent is what I have
been hearing but that is understandable playing an entirely new position. I said before we got Orlando Brown it was a good idea to move
Jonah to RT who had played there before.

Now that both Jonah and Carman are playing at RT and we have La'el Collins in the wings we have some great swing Tackle depth, 
something we have been desperately needing for years. Jonah always has a tough time staying healthy so even if he is playing very 
well there will most likely be a time where we will need Carman to step up and be ready.

All of this is just great news honestly for the OL as a whole.

(08-08-2023, 11:34 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Hell no.  Cutting him right now yields us a whopping 2-3M.  Its a couple million more once he is healthy but that will be game 5 at the soonest.  We have missed having a Lombardi trophy twice all because of the oline and we finally get good depth and you want to cut it for a few million????? 

Somebody kill me.

Collins' cap hit this year is $9.3 mill. If released, it looks like he frees up $7.7 mill off the cap, according to both Spotrac and OTC.
I realize though that there probably is a clause that you can't do that while they are on PUP or you have to come to a settlement, but once he's healthy, I think he could free up $7.7 mill.

As others have said though, the Bengals very likely wouldn't use that saved cap this year anyway, so it would only be to help for rollover next year.
If the goal is to go for a Super Bowl win this year, would you rather have La'el Collins as a reserve, or someone like Adeniji, Smith, or Ford instead?
I lean toward Collins.

(08-09-2023, 02:38 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Collins' cap hit this year is $9.3 mill. If released, it looks like he frees up $7.7 mill off the cap, according to both Spotrac and OTC.
I realize though that there probably is a clause that you can't do that while they are on PUP or you have to come to a settlement, but once he's healthy, I think he could free up $7.7 mill.

As others have said though, the Bengals very likely wouldn't use that saved cap this year anyway, so it would only be to help for rollover next year.
If the goal is to go for a Super Bowl win this year, would you rather have La'el Collins as a reserve, or someone like Adeniji, Smith, or Ford instead?
I lean toward Collins.

Spotrac & OTC are not agreeing with each other.

OTC has LC's dead cap at 3.3M. (could be pre-June 1), which leaves 6M.  If we let him go before he is deemed healthy, a medical settlement up to 2M can be deducted.  So the number we would save could be close to 4M.

OTC has 7.7 with 1.6 dead money.  Minus the settlement the number could be 5.7M.

Im not sure could find a better depth piece for less than 4 - 5M.