(08-23-2023, 12:26 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, Votto seems to be out of it. He is swinging at pitches he would NEVER have swung at in his prime. That isn't a physical loss, that's a mental change.

I hope he gets it together to finish the season, but the idea of having him on the roster next year seems bleak.

DLC is a much better 3B, imo, because his biggest strength is his rocket arm but I think he's decent at SS. 

Marte has only played 2 games so far, so I'll reserve judgement, but he doesn't look like a defensive savant out there, that's for sure.

Yep I like DLC on 3rd, McClain SS, and Steer on 1st. I guess either CES or Marte can settle in at 2nd? But somebody is going to have to join Friedl in the outfield.

Shout out to Graham Ashcraft for getting it back together.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/reds-rhp-graham-ashcraft-s-wild-in-season-turnaround-is-first-in-mlb-since-1913/ar-AA1fElsc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4324508eea244c5f871f36bee609888b&ei=21

He, like Lodolo started off the season red hot. Two wins could have easily had 3rd posting a 2.10 ERA He gave up 8 runs in 6 games through May 2nd. Then vs. CWS on May 7th he fell off a cliff. Then posted a 9.21 ERA for the rest of May, and a 10.38 ERA in June. With only 1 win in those 10 starts.

July was 3 wins and a 1.84 ERA. August is 3.10 ERA thus far. He's now looking like a very solid starter for next season, to say the least.

What a comeback

(08-23-2023, 09:45 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep

Votto looked very awkward at the plate last night. Perhaps he needs to take a couple days off?

I really don't want to see him go out like this. Hopefully Fraley and India return soon, and they can start limiting Votto's appearances a bit.

I am not expecting India back this year. When they said Marte would start the majority of the rest of the year at 3B, the writing is on the wall that he is not coming back until next year.

(08-23-2023, 11:06 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Shout out to Graham Ashcraft for getting it back together.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/reds-rhp-graham-ashcraft-s-wild-in-season-turnaround-is-first-in-mlb-since-1913/ar-AA1fElsc?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4324508eea244c5f871f36bee609888b&ei=21

He, like Lodolo started off the season red hot. Two wins could have easily had 3rd posting a 2.10 ERA He gave up 8 runs in 6 games through May 2nd. Then vs. CWS on May 7th he fell off a cliff. Then posted a 9.21 ERA for the rest of May, and a 10.38 ERA in June. With only 1 win in those 10 starts.

July was 3 wins and a 1.84 ERA. August is 3.10 ERA thus far. He's now looking like a very solid starter for next season, to say the least.

What a comeback

His grandmother passed away right before his April 26th start against the Rangers. He dedicated that game to her, as they had a very special relationship (I think she had a big hand in raising him, but I forget the exact details). He pitched well that game, and then he pitched well on May 2nd against the Padres, but then his slide began. I've heard people talk about it as if to imply he was struggling with her death and that may be one of the causes of his poor performance in May and June. 

He went on the IL after his June 8th start, came back on June 24th, got roughed up by the Braves in his first start back, but after that game is when he seemed to be back. From that point, he has had 10 starts. He went at least 6 innings in 9 of those starts, all 9 of which were quality starts (6 or more IP, 3 or fewer ER). The one game that was not 6 IP was 5.1 IP and he only allowed 2 runs in that game. He was probably taken out strictly for pitch count purposes (he had walked 4 batters and was at 110 pitches).

That's the consistency of an Ace, and that's who I believe he is. I would prefer he be the day 1 starter next season, as he has proven over these last 10 starts that he is, by far, the most consistent and productive starter on this team. 

In 43 career starts, Ashcraft has 23 quality starts (53.5%). In 39 career starts, Hunter Greene has 14 (35.9%). I hope the Reds realize that Ashcraft is their best starting pitcher (other than Abbott, perhaps, but he's a rookie so we'll see how he continues to develop).

(08-23-2023, 11:23 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I am not expecting India back this year. When they said Marte would start the majority of the rest of the year at 3B, the writing is on the wall that he is not coming back until next year.

You may well be right? I remember reading an article week or so ago? That hinted that India and the Reds weren't seeing eye to eye on "issues". It didn't elaborate on what the issues were? Kind of hinted at their handling of the injury IIRC?

But I also remember reading a couple articles hinting at India not being very happy about being shopped for a trade. I'd venture a guess that India may be playing his last season as a Red. For many factors.

And for the record I've always been a big India fan. But I'm way more a Reds fan. And with all this young talent he may well be the odd man out and I'm ok with that.

(08-23-2023, 11:36 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: His grandmother passed away right before his April 26th start against the Rangers. He dedicated that game to her, as they had a very special relationship (I think she had a big hand in raising him, but I forget the exact details). He pitched well that game, and then he pitched well on May 2nd against the Padres, but then his slide began. I've heard people talk about it as if to imply he was struggling with her death and that may be one of the causes of his poor performance in May and June. 

He went on the IL after his June 8th start, came back on June 24th, got roughed up by the Braves in his first start back, but after that game is when he seemed to be back. From that point, he has had 10 starts. He went at least 6 innings in 9 of those starts, all 9 of which were quality starts (6 or more IP, 3 or fewer ER). The one game that was not 6 IP was 5.1 IP and he only allowed 2 runs in that game. He was probably taken out strictly for pitch count purposes (he had walked 4 batters and was at 110 pitches).

That's the consistency of an Ace, and that's who I believe he is. I would prefer he be the day 1 starter next season, as he has proven over these last 10 starts that he is, by far, the most consistent and productive starter on this team. 

In 43 career starts, Ashcraft has 23 quality starts (53.5%). In 39 career starts, Hunter Greene has 14 (35.9%). I hope the Reds realize that Ashcraft is their best starting pitcher (other than Abbott, perhaps, but he's a rookie so we'll see how he continues to develop).

Agree,

In my mind both Ashcraft and Abbott have leap frogged over Greene in #1 and #2 pitchers. 

Lets face it Greene still has a lot to prove, in my opinion anyways. I'll be honest and say I was pretty shocked when they gave him Votto's old contract with so small a resume, ALREADY.

I mean if you throw out all the fanfare of the draft (100 MPH fastball flame thrower) from 3 years ago. When we all were begging for some good news.

He hasn't really done much! Other than have a good bit of K's. 

I think Larkin hit the nail on the head the other night. It's not Greene's velocity, it's his placement of both fastballs and his offspeed stuff. He's grooving fastballs belt high and middle of the plate/out. ML hitters can paste that pitch even at 100. He has to get it a bit further out and/or a bit further up.

And he has to get better placement and break on his offspeed stuff. I'm not trying to bash the guy. I still think he can turn into a dominant starter. He is just 24. I'm hoping anyways.

(08-23-2023, 01:11 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree,

In my mind both Ashcraft and Abbott have leap frogged over Greene in #1 and #2 pitchers. 

Lets face it Greene still has a lot to prove, in my opinion anyways. I'll be honest and say I was pretty shocked when they gave him Votto's old contract with so small a resume, ALREADY.

I mean if you throw out all the fanfare of the draft (100 MPH fastball flame thrower) from 3 years ago. When we all were begging for some good news.

He hasn't really done much! Other than have a good bit of K's. 

I think Larkin hit the nail on the head the other night. It's not Greene's velocity, it's his placement of both fastballs and his offspeed stuff. He's grooving fastballs belt high and middle of the plate/out. ML hitters can paste that pitch even at 100. He has to get it a bit further out and/or a bit further up.

And he has to get better placement and break on his offspeed stuff. I'm not trying to bash the guy. I still think he can turn into a dominant starter. He is just 24. I'm hoping anyways.

I am on record as not liking the contract when it was announced. We gave up a lot of money for only a little bit extra control to a guy with 1 season's worth of experience who has struggled mightily at times.

Hopefully, he actually starts to convert all his "potential" into production soon.

Reds won last night, so Reds have chance to Sweep Angels series today. Reds at the least get a split.

Reds very much in play-off hunt. Only Braves and Dodgers are on pace to win 90 games or more, and that leaves National League wide open for teams that can get HOT from now through September.

Toronto clobbered Orioles last night and clobbered all Reds pitchers, but Toronto clobbers most American League pitchers. So don't freak out too much over Greene's first outing back from injury. Reds fans may not know anything about Toronto, but they can flat out Hit. They probably would have clobbered Ashcraft also had he pitched against Toronto. Greene drew a rough first game back from injury rehab in Toronto. Look for Greene to do better against Arizona who is OK, but they don't have the Hitters that Toronto has.

I'm rooting for all the Reds young pitchers to be HOT from now to September. They could, Reds have good young pitchers. Plus young Diaz is on pace for 40 Saves or more season.

(08-23-2023, 12:56 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You may well be right? I remember reading an article week or so ago? That hinted that India and the Reds weren't seeing eye to eye on "issues". It didn't elaborate on what the issues were? Kind of hinted at their handling of the injury IIRC?

But I also remember reading a couple articles hinting at India not being very happy about being shopped for a trade. I'd venture a guess that India may be playing his last season as a Red. For many factors.

And for the record I've always been a big India fan. But I'm way more a Reds fan. And with all this young talent he may well be the odd man out and I'm ok with that.

I was very loud about getting him out of the #3 slot because he struggled hard, but there's no way he is the odd man out in the starting lineup as a whole in my mind. Just put him at leadoff where he's done well and let him be a decent productive major leaguer.

A lot of the "talent" they have right now is unproven potential. 
-DLC is pacing for a 240+ strikeout season over 162 games with a league average bat and a ton of outs on the basepaths
-Strand continues to be a well below average bat as he hasn't found any success yet
-Small sample size but TJ Hopkins has an OPS of .373 and OPS+ of 3, or 97% below league average
-Even smaller sample size, but I haven't been impressed with Marte yet
-Friedl is hitting .223/.257/.400 (.657) since the All Star break

Don't get rid of a youngish proven MLB-caliber starter who has performed at a high level in the majors once before to make room for even more unproven guys. As promising as a ton of prospects are, most top prospects don't end up amounting to much. 5 years ago Nick Senzel was the Reds #1 prospect.


India was a 4+ WAR player just two years ago, and he hit .283/.376/.413 this year as the leadoff hitter in over 200 PA which is pretty close to his career .269/.362/.432 line as a leadoff hitter spanning about 1,000 PA, so doesn't seem to be a fluke. Not his fault he was put in a position he wasn't suited for to fail. (210/.294/.407 as the #3 hitter this year).

He needs to either bat leadoff, or 6th or lower, but he's a legit major league starter.

Well this game might be over already.

(08-23-2023, 05:22 PM)cinci4life Wrote: Well this game might be over already.

Might have to take this back with Ohtani leaving the game. Angels don't have a DH in this game which will force the pitcher/pinch hitter to hit #2 now.

(08-23-2023, 05:22 PM)cinci4life Wrote: Well this game might be over already.

Yea, the Angels being in their bullpen in the 2nd inning is not a good sign for them on a double header day. We may be able to sneak two wins out of this.

EDLC having himself a game right now. 3 run homer and a 3 run triple. Still think they are lucky Ohtani had to leave. Not sure any of this happens otherwise.

Now we can go for the sweep tonight. And then on to Arizona, who we are currently tied with for the 3rd WC spot.

(08-23-2023, 07:22 PM)cinci4life Wrote: EDLC having himself a game right now. 3 run homer and a 3 run triple. Still think they are lucky Ohtani had to leave. Not sure any of this happens otherwise.

For sure

Took a big jump up the Reds RBI list haha.

(08-23-2023, 05:38 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, the Angels being in their bullpen in the 2nd inning is not a good sign for them on a double header day. We may be able to sneak two wins out of this.

The David Bell effect. The Angels still ended up using 1 less pitcher than the Reds did that game.

Good to get a win, but now you have game 2 and have already pitched Gibault, Farmer, Young, and Law. Need Richardson to go deep tonight. His 3.0 IP from last start would be a killer.

Still have no idea why they don't have/use a long relief guy on the staff. Final 3 innings of a game where you have a 5 run lead would have been a great time to save Gibault and Law for Game 2.

Wow, the Angels helped out the Reds big time.

Richardson can't throw a ball in the strike zone to save his own life and they are swinging at pitches out of the zone. 2-5 batters only saw 3 pitches inside the zone out of the 15 he threw to them, yet somehow got 3 outs regardless.

(08-23-2023, 09:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The David Bell effect. The Angels still ended up using 1 less pitcher than the Reds did that game.

Good to get a win, but now you have game 2 and have already pitched Gibault, Farmer, Young, and Law. Need Richardson to go deep tonight. His 3.0 IP from last start would be a killer.

Still have no idea why they don't have/use a long relief guy on the staff. Final 3 innings of a game where you have a 5 run lead would have been a great time to save Gibault and Law for Game 2.

We could have kept Weaver as a long man, but I think he just had too much of a stink on him in the organization and needed to be completely removed.

Funnily enough, Weaver saw his first action with the Mariners tonight and he pitched 2 hitless innings with 5 Ks as a reliever haha.

Oh well.

Can't start a road trip much better than we did here with the 3 game sweep against the Angels.

Tied with Chicago for 2nd place in the divison and now sole ownership of the third WC spot!

Let's keep it going with a sweep against the Dbacks

Well great start to road trip and we have to keep it going. These next 11 games are crucial for any playoff hopes.

3 vs. Dbacks who are only 1/2 a game behind us in WC chase. Then 3 vs. Giants who are tied with Dbacks all on road. Then 4 vs. Cubs at home to start September. They're 1 game ahead of us in the loss column.

This is our time to make hay if we want a chance at postseason.

(08-23-2023, 01:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I am on record as not liking the contract when it was announced. We gave up a lot of money for only a little bit extra control to a guy with 1 season's worth of experience who has struggled mightily at times.

Hopefully, he actually starts to convert all his "potential" into production soon.

Reds are taking a gamble on Greene with a relatively cheap contract for a SP.

Under $9 mill APY is pretty good for a #1/2 SP, but Greene has to get the consistency to justify spending that much.