(09-01-2023, 07:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: How many regular/post season games has he missed?

The injury prone label gets thrown at people that miss games, not people that just get hurt. They all get hurt, all the time. 

I wish some of you (not pointed at you just the general sense i'm getting reading some threads the last few days) would learn to ***** use context so i don't have to read all the stupid ass posts that happen around here too much. 

EDIT: I probably should have just made this a stand alone post.

Praying for no injuries!

A burst appendix is not an injury. Just saying.

He just got some Big Ben in him. All the great ones do. Mahomes probably start the season hobbling on that supposedly amputated ankle. Trying to lure defenses to sleep.

I don’t count the appendectomy.

But I do feel like he struggled through injury in 2021 with a knee, finger, ankle (and he has taken a beating so no shade).

And he missed a lot of offseason before entering the league due to injuries in College which delayed his development.

So it may be a thing. He’s tough. No one is questioning that.

(09-01-2023, 09:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Praying for no injuries!

(09-01-2023, 10:12 PM)jj22 Wrote: He just got some Big Ben in him. All the great ones do. Mahomes probably start the season hobbling on that supposedly amputated ankle. Trying to lure defenses to sleep.

I don’t count the appendectomy.

But I do feel like he struggled through injury in 2021 with a knee, finger, ankle (and he has taken a beating so no shade).

And he missed a lot of offseason before entering the league due to injuries in College which delayed his development.

So it may be a thing. He’s tough. No one is questioning that.

Did he? I don't recall hearing that. What injuries did he have? I thought it was more covid and all the changes/limitations with that which delayed anything they could do. 

(09-02-2023, 12:35 AM)TheFan Wrote: Did he? I don't recall hearing that. What injuries did he have? I thought it was more covid and all the changes/limitations with that which delayed anything they could do. 

In 2017 he was injured in practice and missed the start of the season.

That’s the only time he missed any time in college, although he was injured in the National Championship Game although he continued playing. 

(09-02-2023, 11:54 AM)BengalFanInCanada Wrote: In 2017 he was injured in practice and missed the start of the season.

That’s the only time he missed any time in college, although he was injured in the National Championship Game although he continued playing. 

I read JJs comment as he missed offseason time going into his rookie season due to injuries but maybe I interpreted it wrong. 

(09-02-2023, 11:58 AM)TheFan Wrote: I read JJs comment as he missed offseason time going into his rookie season due to injuries but maybe I interpreted it wrong. 

I believe he lost time from off season practice in his rookie season because he was drafted in 2020 and Covid restricted practices.  So yeah not injury related as far as I recall.  I looked for articles between when he was drafted and the first regular season game and didn't see anything stating he missed time due to an injury.

Unfortunately he has never had a full normal off season.  2020 Covid, 2021 recovering from ACL, 2022 appendectomy and this year the calf strain. 

Despite what some may think JB is not a God.

He's been injured quite a bit. it's OK to say it.

He shouldn't play again until he has been compensated for what he's done and projected to do. It's Ok to suggest that. I respect Pat Kirwan as much as anyone in the game and he's of the same opinion.

A way to check if you're being rational in your thoughts. Put JB on the Steelers and answer the same questions posed.

(09-02-2023, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Despite what some may think JB is not a God.

He's been injured quite a bit. it's OK to say it.

He shouldn't play again until he has been compensated for what he's done and projected to do. It's Ok to suggest that. I respect Pat Kirwan as much as anyone in the game and he's of the same opinion.

A way to check if you're being rational in your thoughts. Put JB on the Steelers and answer the same questions posed.

Why would it be okay for him not to play just because he's finished 3 years of a 4/5 year contract? He has been compensated for what he's done and projected to do with his 36 million guaranteed contract created by the CBA and a possible extra 29 million guaranteed if they pick up his 5th year. 

(09-02-2023, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A way to check if you're being rational in your thoughts. Put JB on the Steelers and answer the same questions posed.

If Burrow were on the Steelers we'd be gleefully cacking at how the cheap-ass Rooneys were refusing to pay him his just due because he's not a sex offender. 

(09-02-2023, 12:17 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Despite what some may think JB is not a God.

I think Burrow is more likely to be a terminator-style robot than a god.  He's impervious to injury, he's never flustered by the mental aspects of football, and when he's asked if he wants a $750 million contract he's going to say he has no need for money and he's programmed to win football games and nothing else. 

(09-02-2023, 12:30 PM)TheFan Wrote: Why would it be okay for him not to play just because he's finished 3 years of a 4/5 year contract? He has been compensated for what he's done and projected to do with his 36 million guaranteed contract created by the CBA and a possible extra 29 million guaranteed if they pick up his 5th year. 

IDK, maybe because the dude in the draft taken 5 picks after him is playing on a contract with an average annual salary of $52.5 MIL/Year; while Joe earns about $9 MIL/Year.

Hell Geno Smith is scheduled to make $27 Mil this year. 

(09-02-2023, 05:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: IDK, maybe because the dude in the draft taken 5 picks after him is playing on a contract with an average annual salary of $52.5 MIL/Year; while Joe earns about $9 MIL/Year.

Hell Geno Smith is scheduled to make $27 Mil this year. 

No, Burrow earns 9 mil this year not per year. He would earn another 29mil next year if he did nothing to sign a new contract with us past his 5th year. In addition to the 8 more mil he already made than Herbert through their first 3 years. I would bet every dollar in my bank account the Bengals aren't offering less than the Herbert deal. You really think Burrow is at no fault the deal isn't done yet and that's why Herbert is making more on the numbers you quoted? 

We have no idea what Burrow has been asking for in regards to his deal.

(09-02-2023, 07:30 PM)TheFan Wrote: No, Burrow earns 9 mil this year not per year. He would earn another 29mil next year if he did nothing to sign a new contract with us past his 5th year. In addition to the 8 more mil he already made than Herbert through their first 3 years. I would bet every dollar in my bank account the Bengals aren't offering less than the Herbert deal. You really think Burrow is at no fault the deal isn't done yet and that's why Herbert is making more on the numbers you quoted? 

We have no idea what Burrow has been asking for in regards to his deal.

Joe Burrow is currently on a 4 year $36 Mil contract. That works out to $9 Mil/year just as I stated. 

No, I don't think JB is at "fault". I've constantly stated he should be, but he's not. 

(09-02-2023, 10:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Joe Burrow is currently on a 4 year $36 Mil contract. That works out to $9 Mil/year just as I stated. 

No, I don't think JB is at "fault". I've constantly stated he should be, but he's not. 

Yes, but if he signed a new contract like Herbert did those numbers would change like Herbert numbers you quoted. It's not like Herbert was making more prior to signing his new deal. Burrow has made the most of any of the new up and coming QBs who've signed their deals this year. 

What does that mean? Genuinely, I'm not sure what you mean by that and not trying to be combative. 

(08-31-2023, 06:30 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: We don't have to blindly defend a player just because we really like him. Burrow is a slow starter. Now, that particular statement can be a bit misleading as it isn't all his fault and there are a lot of factors involved, but he has been quite poor in the first two weeks of the season throughout his career. He has a 64% completion percentage with 10 TDs and eight interceptions. He has a passer rating of 81. His YPA is 6.2. 

It's okay to point that out and discuss it without it being "almost laughable". It's part of the reason why some fans have been pounding the table about starters getting reps in the pre-season, and why many have talked about Burrow "never having a normal training camp". He always ends up having something that takes him out of commission during camp, or something that limits him in camp and he seems a bit uncomfortable the first couple of weeks. 

Slow starter.... ok. But geez:

2020: Rookie starter without much of a preseason.
2021: Months after a totally rebuilt knee.
2022: Appendix rupture weeks before opening day.

Let's not act like Joe is just a slow starter for no reason, that is very disingenuous. If he starts slow this year then I'll agree, as I think most of his nonparticipatiuon was purely preventative.

(09-02-2023, 12:30 PM)TheFan Wrote: Why would it be okay for him not to play just because he's finished 3 years of a 4/5 year contract? He has been compensated for what he's done and projected to do with his 36 million guaranteed contract created by the CBA and a possible extra 29 million guaranteed if they pick up his 5th year. 

Because he was colluded against by two groups who has absolutely zero interest in his best interests (when he was 12 years old) to remove his ability to negotiate for his pay, negotiate length of contract, and his ability to negotiate for a raise for the first 3 years of his career. Sam Bradford was the 1st overall pick in 2010 and he got $78m or $13m/yr when the cap was only $120m to Burrow's $36m or $9m/yr when the cap was $198m.

He's vastly outperformed what he has been paid and is now eligible for a pay raise and the understanding in place is that if a guy has proven himself to be great after 3 years he is to get a raise. Heck, there's even measures specifically put into place in the CBA that allow for fine forgiveness of guys who hold out after their third year while on rookie contracts because if you're good enough to hold out, you're generally good enough that you should get paid.

The fact that he's not holding out, holding in (I am assuming the calf wasn't/isn't a hold-in), or making a spectacle of it means he is still operating in good faith. If you want to maintain any semblance of a good culture with your organization you can't show that guys who become the face of your franchise, lead you to a Super Bowl, perform excellently, and make the franchise an absolute boatload of money, won't be treated in good faith in return. Players need to see that when players are making the franchise money and doing very well, they are rewarded.

(09-03-2023, 02:58 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Because he was colluded against by two groups who has absolutely zero interest in his best interests (when he was 12 years old) to remove his ability to negotiate for his pay, negotiate length of contract, and his ability to negotiate for a raise for the first 3 years of his career. Sam Bradford was the 1st overall pick in 2010 and he got $78m or $13m/yr when the cap was only $120m to Burrow's $36m or $9m/yr when the cap was $198m.

He's vastly outperformed what he has been paid and is now eligible for a pay raise and the understanding in place is that if a guy has proven himself to be great after 3 years he is to get a raise. Heck, there's even measures specifically put into place in the CBA that allow for fine forgiveness of guys who hold out after their third year while on rookie contracts because if you're good enough to hold out, you're generally good enough that you should get paid.

The fact that he's not holding out, holding in (I am assuming the calf wasn't/isn't a hold-in), or making a spectacle of it means he is still operating in good faith. If you want to maintain any semblance of a good culture with your organization you can't show that guys who become the face of your franchise, lead you to a Super Bowl, perform excellently, and make the franchise an absolute boatload of money, won't be treated in good faith in return. Players need to see that when players are making the franchise money and doing very well, they are rewarded.

So you also agree it wouldn't be fine for him to not play, otherwise he's not acting in good faith. I would understand if he was going into year 5 with no contract following, like the Bosa situation. 

(09-03-2023, 04:48 AM)TheFan Wrote: So you also agree it wouldn't be fine for him to not play, otherwise he's not acting in good faith. I would understand if he was going into year 5 with no contract following, like the Bosa situation. 

No. That is not what I said at all. He hasn't made any public fuss while the negotiations are happening. That is the good faith to keep business behind closed doors while there was not any deadline yet (the season). 

If the team doesn't try to extend him then he is 100% in his right to not play. It is one of the few real methods of leverage that exist for players.

Mahomes: Extended after year 3
Allen: Extended after year 3
Hurts: Extended after year 3
Herbert: Extended after year 3
Goff: Extended after year 3
Murray: Extended after year 3
Watson: Extended after year 3
R Wilson: Extended after year 3

Pay the man. He is your franchise QB, has proven himself, and the team is a dumpster fire without him. We don't need a Lamar Jackson situation here. Just because he has handled business quietly doesn't mean he can't feel slighted or upset (rightfully).

(09-03-2023, 07:06 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: No. That is not what I said at all. He hasn't made any public fuss while the negotiations are happening. That is the good faith to keep business behind closed doors while there was not any deadline yet (the season). 

If the team doesn't try to extend him then he is 100% in his right to not play. It is one of the few real methods of leverage that exist for players.

Mahomes: Extended after year 3
Allen: Extended after year 3
Hurts: Extended after year 3
Herbert: Extended after year 3
Goff: Extended after year 3
Murray: Extended after year 3
Watson: Extended after year 3
R Wilson: Extended after year 3

Pay the man. He is your franchise QB, has proven himself, and the team is a dumpster fire without him. We don't need a Lamar Jackson situation here. Just because he has handled business quietly doesn't mean he can't feel slighted or upset (rightfully).

We've seen the Bengals be willing to pay their players. We've even seen them set the market for QBs in the past. The team obviously is trying to extend him and I highly doubt they're randomly now trying to lowball Joe Burrow. 

Like you said, if this gets done next week before the season, it's all water un the bridge anyways. If it doesn't get don't I do think that's cause for concern. But we've seen the recent blue print deals that his peers Herbert and Hurts made this year. We know the history of the Bengals paying their QBs. So I think it does raise some questions about what Burrow would be asking for that's different from the other deals. Obviously this is all hypothetical though and if the deal gets done its moot.