(09-08-2023, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: They can't be happy. The same people moaning about Tee are the same people who say the game is over in the GD thread the first time we punt. They wallow in misery and want everyone to be miserable too. There is plenty of money for Tee, the cap is going up a lot next year and every year after that. Lost Covid revenues are recovered and now the gambling money is going to roll in. This is why you don't see players pushing for long term deals right now. 

And they are the same ppl they would be complaining if Burrow and Tees extensions came together

“Omg how are we gonna pay everyone now!!?”


Ummm bro we’re not. That’s why there’s threads all off-season evaluating whose worth keeping and not after these Burrow, Chase and Tee deals

(09-07-2023, 11:33 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Cannot comment until the details are known. I am not a cap wizard, but I'd be shocked if the 5th year option got voided. Why would the team do that? Forfeiting a year of control? Makes no sense to me.

As for Tee, if indeed Burrow's deal doesn't kick in until 2025 (aside from the signing bonus being pro-rated in, if that is the case, unsure how that works), the immediate impact will be negligible. Going forward, it will mean some tough decisions.

The most obvious place to save is RT. Jonah makes $12.5 mil, and is on an expiring deal. Collins has an $6.667 mil cap hit next year, and we could save $7 mil by releasing him. It is an extremely deep tackle draft. Losing at least one seems a given. Both wouldxsave nearly $20 mil. How Smith/Carman progress, and how Jonah/Collins play will impact it.

Second is WR with Boyd at $10 mil. Jones/Iosivas need to step up first, though.

Chido makes $8 mil and Turner is waiting in the wings.

Mixon makes $8.4 and Brown is waiting in the wings. Though we'd only save $5.750 mil in 2024 by waiving him.

Reader at $15 mil is the other obvious candidate. No one in the wings there.

Honestly Chido for $8M is an absolute steal. I don’t care what promising rookie we have, I’d resign Chido all day long for $8M per

(09-08-2023, 08:23 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Why are you even here?

Large Marge sent me…

(09-07-2023, 10:10 PM)TheFan Wrote: ...But them doing their talk about trying to keep weapons together and that nonsense was clearly...nonsense. 

THIS!

(09-08-2023, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: They can't be happy. The same people moaning about Tee are the same people who say the game is over in the GD thread the first time we punt. They wallow in misery and want everyone to be miserable too. There is plenty of money for Tee, the cap is going up a lot next year and every year after that. Lost Covid revenues are recovered and now the gambling money is going to roll in. This is why you don't see players pushing for long term deals right now. 

While I do agree on the whole, Joelist and Housh have actually been quite pleasant, so not everyone in the GD thread has been that bad

(09-07-2023, 11:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ... and spend our leftover money to put a team around him. 

What leftover money?

Hope he dont strain his calf carrying around all that cash.

He deserves it. I'm happy for him....and us!

(09-07-2023, 11:09 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I have never heard of voiding a 5th year option.  It may be able to be renegotiated, maybe?  But voided?  Definitely requesting the link of the validation.

I saw your post down the way as well - no need to apologize. I was wrong and spreading some misinformation. However, I do think there is something there. Looking at Herbert, Allen and some other QBs, their option year pays them significantly more than the option is supposed to. However, their cap hit is relatively low. For instance, here is Justin Herbert's Spotrac page. His option year is 2024, but his yearly cash payout is $56MM. However, he has a low cap hit. The same is true for Josh Allen. His option year was 2022, but he made $46MM with a low cap hit. 

I am not a cap expert by any means, and I would wager your stronger on contracts than I am, but I think I was getting mixed up in this detail. From a players perspective, the fifth year option is irrelevant as far as details go because it gets renegotiated. It still exists but all of the payment details get changed so they get their money starting immediately, but the cap hit is pushed down the road. I could still be misunderstanding something, but this feels better than just saying it is voided. 

Will need a Cap expert to explain to me what this means for other negotiations moving forward. But simply put, any day the Bengals extend Joe Burrow for 5 years is a good day.

Great news for the Bengals & Joe.

(09-08-2023, 08:41 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: Honestly Chido for $8M is an absolute steal. I don’t care what promising rookie we have, I’d resign Chido all day long for $8M per

Ha! I would, too. But I believe the NEXT deal will be significantly more expensive. Thus, we may not have the ability to pat him $15-$20 mil. 

(09-08-2023, 10:13 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I saw your post down the way as well - no need to apologize. I was wrong and spreading some misinformation. However, I do think there is something there. Looking at Herbert, Allen and some other QBs, their option year pays them significantly more than the option is supposed to. However, their cap hit is relatively low. For instance, here is Justin Herbert's Spotrac page. His option year is 2024, but his yearly cash payout is $56MM. However, he has a low cap hit. The same is true for Josh Allen. His option year was 2022, but he made $46MM with a low cap hit. 

I am not a cap expert by any means, and I would wager your stronger on contracts than I am, but I think I was getting mixed up in this detail. From a players perspective, the fifth year option is irrelevant as far as details go because it gets renegotiated. It still exists but all of the payment details get changed so they get their money starting immediately, but the cap hit is pushed down the road. I could still be misunderstanding something, but this feels better than just saying it is voided. 

I believe that cash in the 5th year is all the cash from the signing bonus (or at least a big chunk). For cap purposes, it gets distributed evenly, but in reality, I believe the player gets it all up front. Again, I am not a cap expert, but I think that is how it works.  Thus, the divergence for what the player gets and what the cap hit is. 

The 5th year option is a big raise + a signing bonus cash makes it appear like the player's new deal has "voided" the 5th year option because the cash is on par with the beginning of the new deal.

IDK, if a real cap wiz can come on and correct that. A better bet is to just look at OTC and the cap number & forget the cash column altogether. It gives a better, clearer view of the contract.

https://overthecap.com/player/justin-herbert/8746

Spotrac still has not updated so the details are still not public yet.

(09-08-2023, 10:13 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I am not a cap expert by any means, and I would wager your stronger on contracts than I am, but I think I was getting mixed up in this detail. From a players perspective, the fifth year option is irrelevant as far as details go because it gets renegotiated. It still exists but all of the payment details get changed so they get their money starting immediately, but the cap hit is pushed down the road. I could still be misunderstanding something, but this feels better than just saying it is voided. 

The remaining years on a contract are restructured when they extend players. Alot of the time they convert some of the 5th year option money to part of the signing bonus. 

(09-08-2023, 11:05 AM)Synric Wrote: The remaining years on a contract are restructured when they extend players. Alot of the time they convert some of the 5th year option money to part of the signing bonus. 

Okay, yours and Isaac's responses make sense then. The year still exists, but the payment details are changed. I had heard it described as essentially "ripping up" the 5th year and completely redoing it. That may not be completely accurate but it gets the point across at least. I'm not confused anymore. 

(09-08-2023, 11:11 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Okay, yours and Isaac's responses make sense then. The year still exists, but the payment details are changed. I had heard it described as essentially "ripping up" the 5th year and completely redoing it. That may not be completely accurate but it gets the point across at least. I'm not confused anymore. 

Like Herbert I'm expecting 2028 to be the next extention year where the cap will be extremely high but it will get restructured down when they extend them both. They will likely eat only one majorly high cap year in 2027.

(09-08-2023, 08:15 AM)Sled21 Wrote: They can't be happy. The same people moaning about Tee are the same people who say the game is over in the GD thread the first time we punt. They wallow in misery and want everyone to be miserable too. There is plenty of money for Tee, the cap is going up a lot next year and every year after that. Lost Covid revenues are recovered and now the gambling money is going to roll in. This is why you don't see players pushing for long term deals right now. 

Some cannot be happy, and some cannot accept that everything JB does is not the most awesome thing ever done by an NFL player in the history of the league. Many were suggesting the contract was taking so long because JB was trying to give everyone else all his money and he was being so magnanimous that the NFLPA had to step in and make JB take more money.

It is what it is: The most expensive contract in the history of the league earned by a player who deserves it given the current market. It does not appear to be "team friendly" given the numbers we have. That could change once we get the details, but I'll simply call it as I see it. 

Pat Mahomes is currently the best player in the NFL and has signed the most "team friendly" contract in the NFL. I can live with both that fact and the facts of JB's contract. 

(09-08-2023, 09:29 AM)Tomkat Wrote: What leftover money?

We are still way under the cap this year, and it will likely explode going forward. 

Burrow was already going to cost $30 mil vs the cap next year ($29.5). Let's see what the real numbers are, but even if it $55 a year, that is +$25 mil from next year. By the time the deal kicks in (2025), the cap will have risen at least that. Still, we will have the increase from now ($11 mil) to that $29 to deal with. Another $18 mil. Jonah is $12.5. Collins is $7. 

Let's see where we are with rollover, Tee, and what Joe's current deal actually looks like. 

Remember this is the last year of Tee’s contract. Obviously they can franchise tag him in 2024 if it comes to that. I’m sure they would like to extend him, and for all we know the Burrow deal may be structured to make that possible. Until Spartacus updates and/or extension details are known no one here can say.