Some of #Bengals WR Ja’Marr Chase’s comments today asking to open up the offense.

He also said, “We gotta take more deep shots down the field. That’s why we have deep-threat guys.” pic.twitter.com/FB9TZ9htSD

— Jay Morrison (@ByJayMorrison) September 18, 2023

Mixon, Boyd, Higgins, Chase. I mean, who could do anything with these bums.

(09-18-2023, 11:35 PM)Destro Wrote: Mixon, Boyd, Higgins, Chase. I mean, who could do anything with these bums.

A good coach could probably take them to 2 straight AFC Title games and 1 Super Bowl

(09-18-2023, 11:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A good coach could probably take them to 2 straight AFC Title games and 1 Super Bowl

A good play caller would probably not be sitting at 0-2 and would have them a Lombardi. 

The play calling is extremely lack luster. All you have to do is compare the route tree of Jamar Chase to any other elite WR and it's mind blowing.

(09-18-2023, 11:58 PM)Destro Wrote: A good play caller would probably not be sitting at 0-2 and would have them a Lombardi. 

Sure, that seems easy enough

Taylor is low tier to mid, he always has been, he just benefits from a great roster.

(09-19-2023, 10:34 AM)740Bengal Wrote: Taylor is low tier to mid, he always has been, he just benefits from a great roster.

Which to his credit he completely rebuilt. But we can say he’s a good HC, and still admit he’s not a particularly good play caller/designer.

(09-19-2023, 10:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Which to his credit he completely rebuilt. But we can say he’s a good HC, and still admit he’s not a particularly good play caller/designer.

I agree with that all.

They've been particularly good in free agency. The Awuzie's and Readers of the world. Maybe the Bengals were so bad that they had to bring guys in. Maybe it was Burrow. But, for whatever reason, they spent. Even Orlando Brown.

I'm going to repeat what I've always said (and what BengalsCaptain has said on Twitter for the past year and a bit) and what bfine basically alluded to above: if even half of the plays that ended up at nothing were executed correctly, we don't talk about this.

This goes back to the whole Kingsbury thread from 2020, how, "you see how he has players playing and the plays drawn up? THAT is how a play-designer designs plays!" Well who still has a job and has been successful and who is wasting away back in college, where he never should've left?

Mike McDaniel is another guy who's name has been thrown around lately and guess what? Yeah he did motion practically every snap on Sunday, it looked like, but how often did that last-second motion actually get executed correctly? 2 out of 13 times? 1 out of 9 times? The point is, whether it looks good or not, execution is all that matters. The NE D stopped that motion crap dead and they are a worse D than Bmore is, even with Bmore's injuries.

None of you (or even me) are even remotely-qualified to know what constitutes good play design or not and just because it looks good or bad, doesn't mean that is reality. It doesn't mean Zac IS a good play-caller, but nuance and context is way above almost everyone's head (me included) on here and almost none of you are willing to admit it.

And I'm not defending Zac either, merely saying that everyone is being incredibly inflammatory and dickish for nothing: the same shit was said last year too and we saw how last year turned out.

As many, "in the know," have pointed out, almost every team runs the same plays, 85% of the time and the only variation is in nuance or pre-snap things, not to mention they all have different names.

Execution is all that matters and if 3 more plays (literally) are executed correctly on Sunday, we win.

And it has been stated by Nicomo and others, but the guy architected the entire team, along with Callahan and Lou, not to mention setup systems and the like that got us farther in the playoffs in a 2 year stretch than ever before, when the league has been modernized more than ever. The attitude sucks.

Criticism is warranted, always, but it is always so misplaced and beyond inflammatory.

(09-19-2023, 11:05 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I'm going to repeat what I've always said (and what BengalsCaptain has said on Twitter for the past year and a bit) and what bfine basically alluded to above: if even half of the plays that ended up at nothing were executed correctly, we don't talk about this.

This goes back to the whole Kingsbury thread from 2020, how, "you see how he has players playing and the plays drawn up? THAT is how a play-designer designs plays!"

Mike McDaniel is another guy who's name has been thrown around lately and guess what? Yeah he did motion practically every snap on Sunday, it looked like, but how often did that last-second motion actually get executed correctly? 2 out of 13 times? 1 out of 9 times? The point is, whether it looks good or not, execution is all that matters. The NE D stopped that motion crap dead and they are a worse D than Bmore is, even with Bmore's injuries.

None of you (or even me) are even remotely-qualified to know what constitutes good play design or not and just because it looks good or bad, doesn't mean that is reality.

And I'm not defending Zac either, merely saying that everyone is being incredibly inflammatory and dickish for nothing: the same shit was said last year too and we saw how last year turned out.

As many, "in the know," have pointed out, almost every team runs the same plays, 85% of the time and the only variation is in nuance or pre-snap things, not to mention they all have different names.

Execution is all that matters and if 3 more plays (literally) are executed correctly on Sunday, we win.

And it has been stated by Nicomo and others, but the guy architected the entire team, along with Callahan and Lou, not to mention setup systems and the like that got us farther in the playoffs in a 2 year stretch than ever before, when the league has been modernized more than ever. The attitude sucks.

Criticism is warranted, always, but it is always so misplaced and beyond inflammatory.

Yep. Play-call, play-design, game-planning, execution, etc. All different.

Sometimes guys are open and the QB doesn't see them. Sometimes the QB goes through reads and checks down. When the play have 4-5 targets and the checkdown was last...so really hard to blame the playcall.

On the throw to Tee that got intercepted, supposedly Chase was 1on1 and pretty open.

I think some fans think that a playcall will just blow teams away with confusion. And that rarely happens.

I will say that maybe it was last year, when teams started playing Tampa 2 against us and we struggled...some of that was on the coaches to adjust. And they eventually did, but it took a while.

Agree here. Zac is a very good HC but he or the "commitee" calling and designing plays not so good. Bengals don't fool anybody. Defenses seem to know what play is coming. Like a pitcher that has one good pitch, a fastball he may throw it 98mph but pro hitters know it's coming.

(09-19-2023, 11:11 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Agree here. Zac is a very good HC but he or the "commitee" calling and designing plays not so good. Bengals don't fool anybody. Defenses seem to know what play is coming. Like a pitcher that has one good pitch, a fastball he may throw it 98mph but pro hitters know it's coming.

I think that even if they know what is coming, if you execute...it works. Or it can work.

That's what's not happening. The Browns played Higgins and Chase 1on1 and the Bengals just missed throws.

(09-19-2023, 11:11 AM)RegularGuy22 Wrote: Agree here. Zac is a very good HC but he or the "commitee" calling and designing plays not so good. Bengals don't fool anybody. Defenses seem to know what play is coming. Like a pitcher that has one good pitch, a fastball he may throw it 98mph but pro hitters know it's coming.

And this is what I mean: this entire bolded is all bullshit.

1. You don't know if anyone is fooled or not.
2. Unless you are a savant or NFL offensive coach, you CAN'T know this, as you are not there, discussing or designing plays, etc.
3. Are you a player on the defense? How do you know defenders know what play is coming?
4. Nolan Ryan begs to differ.
5. They can know it's coming and still swing and miss: it's why guys still can't catch up to 93 MPH fastballs, because THEY DIDN'T EXECUTE PROPERLY.

Attitude sucks.

Even McCarthy's offense (surprise) looks modern compared to Zac... And I thought he was done as a playcaller (and HC).

(09-19-2023, 11:16 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: And this is what I mean: this entire bolded is all bullshit.

1. You don't know if anyone is fooled or not.
2. Unless you are a savant or NFL offensive coach, you CAN'T know this, as you are not there, discussing or designing plays, etc.
3. Are you a player on the defense? How do you know defenders know what play is coming?
4. Nolan Ryan begs to differ.
5. They can know it's coming and still swing and miss: it's why guys still can't catch up to 93 MPH fastballs, because THEY DIDN'T EXECUTE PROPERLY.

Attitude sucks.

You're attitude does suck. When I see a Bengal RB tackled in the backfield for a 5 yd loss as soon as he gets the ball the D knew what play was coming. Nolan Ryan had more than a 100mph fastball.

(09-19-2023, 10:45 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Which to his credit he completely rebuilt. But we can say he’s a good HC, and still admit he’s not a particularly good play caller/designer.

While I generally fall into this camp, I can't help but wonder if the problem is playcalling by committee. Maybe we should just have 1 person and 1 person only calling plays, I don't even care if it's Zac doing it. Just have 1 person call plays. If it's not Zac, he can still determine whether we go for it on 4th down and things like that, bu tet Callahan call the plays.

I think Zac has proven to be a really good HC, but if he wants to be a GREAT one, he'll recognize we need to make changes to who and how plays are called.

Just read a stat that 46% of the Bengals drives end in 3 and out, of course worst rate in the NFL. That is absolutely MIND BLOWING. That strictly speaks to coaching. You cant have a top 5 QB two #1 receivers and a solid RB and have that rate. It's just absolutely absurd.

(09-19-2023, 11:05 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I'm going to repeat what I've always said (and what BengalsCaptain has said on Twitter for the past year and a bit) and what bfine basically alluded to above: if even half of the plays that ended up at nothing were executed correctly, we don't talk about this.

This goes back to the whole Kingsbury thread from 2020, how, "you see how he has players playing and the plays drawn up? THAT is how a play-designer designs plays!" Well who still has a job and has been successful and who is wasting away back in college, where he never should've left?

Mike McDaniel is another guy who's name has been thrown around lately and guess what? Yeah he did motion practically every snap on Sunday, it looked like, but how often did that last-second motion actually get executed correctly? 2 out of 13 times? 1 out of 9 times? The point is, whether it looks good or not, execution is all that matters. The NE D stopped that motion crap dead and they are a worse D than Bmore is, even with Bmore's injuries.

None of you (or even me) are even remotely-qualified to know what constitutes good play design or not and just because it looks good or bad, doesn't mean that is reality. It doesn't mean Zac IS a good play-caller, but nuance and context is way above almost everyone's head (me included) on here and almost none of you are willing to admit it.

And I'm not defending Zac either, merely saying that everyone is being incredibly inflammatory and dickish for nothing: the same shit was said last year too and we saw how last year turned out.

As many, "in the know," have pointed out, almost every team runs the same plays, 85% of the time and the only variation is in nuance or pre-snap things, not to mention they all have different names.

Execution is all that matters and if 3 more plays (literally) are executed correctly on Sunday, we win.

And it has been stated by Nicomo and others, but the guy architected the entire team, along with Callahan and Lou, not to mention setup systems and the like that got us farther in the playoffs in a 2 year stretch than ever before, when the league has been modernized more than ever. The attitude sucks.

Criticism is warranted, always, but it is always so misplaced and beyond inflammatory.

Great post, Truck. I would just add that there are times when we can criticize WHAT play was called. For example, it's 3rd and inches and we call a shotgun pass play where every receiver is running a deep pattern. Obviously extreme, but I think it's ok to criticize the coaching staff for not running the ball or QB sneaking the ball in that situation. 

Oh, and, we have to remember that Burrow is free to change the plays so sometimes the play we all wanted WAS called by the coaching staff but Burrow saw or thought he saw something different from the defense and changed the play.

(09-19-2023, 11:34 AM)thompson19osu Wrote: Just read a stat that 46% of the Bengals drives end in 3 and out, of course worst rate in the NFL. That is absolutely MIND BLOWING. That strictly speaks to coaching. You cant have a top 5 QB two #1 receivers and a solid RB and have that rate. It's just absolutely absurd.

Right, 'cause Joe Burrow didn't suck in game 1 and the first half of game 2.