(09-27-2023, 10:28 PM)hollodero Wrote: What exactly is your case, that Hudson should have a spot on the 53 or that he should become the new TE1? For I'd say yes to the former and no to the latter. 

My case against degrading Irv Smith is that there were only two games with an apparently severely hampered QB to evaluate him by. I doubt Tanner Hudson would have been able to do much more in these games - even more so since we saw one game of Mr. Hudson with a somewhat improved passing game and it's not like he set the world on fire there. Putting him from the practice squad right on top of the depth chart because of 30 receiving yards against the Rams seems a bit rushed. 
Granted, I actually still believe Irv Smith can be good and would like to see a few more games before giving up on him.

The thread is based on limited observations…

1. Irv Smith seems to have limited availability 2. Most of the data for Hudson is preseason against 2s and 3s, but in his one opportunity he flashed

It makes for an interesting question at the least. Happy to get others opinions.

I think we will get at least one more week of him as Smith heals up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think this offense can be more effective
If the TE is featured in the passing game
More. The better you can hit those
Throws between the hash marks the more
Of a dilemma you put the 2nd and 3rd
Levels in

(09-28-2023, 12:38 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: FTFY

None of our TE’s are good. But you’ll never admit the coaching staff dropped the ball on that one.

Of course, I wouldn't. 



That's a failure of the front office. 

(09-28-2023, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course, I wouldn't. 



That's a failure of the front office. 

And the coaches. Unless you think Taylor and co have no say in draft picks. Sample was a terrible pick, and they’ve neglected the position in the draft since.

Just based on the eye test Tanner should definitely be getting more reps. I haven't been impressed with Irv Smith at all, even when has caught the ball. Yes it is a small sample size but it sounds like Smith is injured so THudson should get some opportunities.

It also feels like Drew Sample has regressed. Or maybe that one year he was good was the outlier, I dunno.

I was disappointed Mitchell Wilcox didn't do more on Monday night. Then again the throws have not been great.

(09-28-2023, 11:58 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And the coaches. Unless you think Taylor and co have no say in draft picks. Sample was a terrible pick, and they’ve neglected the position in the draft since.

It appears you have me confused with someone who doesn't think TE is a weakness on this team. IMO we should have taken Darnell Washington instead of trading back and getting Battle/Robbins. I woulda taken Josh Whylie over Charlie Jones.  

It's depressing that we consider ourselves a Superbowl contender; yet we're throwing passes to the likes of Tanner Hudson/Mitchell Wilcox, while folks like OJ Howard and Cameron Brate walk the streets.

IDC who's to blame: FO, coaches, Bengals Message Board. 

(09-28-2023, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears you have me confused with someone who doesn't think TE is a weakness on this team. IMO we should have taken Darnell Washington instead of trading back and getting Battle/Robbins. I woulda taken Josh Whylie over Charlie Jones.  

It's depressing that we consider ourselves a Superbowl contender; yet we're throwing passes to the likes of Tanner Hudson/Mitchell Wilcox, while folks like OJ Howard and Cameron Brate walk the streets.

IDC who's to blame: FO, coaches, Bengals Message Board. 

Always message board. But I think that is a bit of an oversimplification. Not every other team has great TEs, I had to look up the Dolphins one for example and they still make 70 points. Maybe it is not necessary to bring in a veteran TE that other TE-less teams have disregarded so far, cut another player for him, teach him a playbook in a couple days and let him go out there and possibly disrupt things, because he is OJ Howard and not a great TE.

Irv Smith will hopefully be back, and they might have some ideas how to use him still. I'd rather take that approach and hope for Burrow to hit one of our outstanding receivers with frequency instead. Seems like that's what the Bengals are up to anyway.

(09-28-2023, 09:09 PM)hollodero Wrote: Always message board. But I think that is a bit of an oversimplification. Not every other team has great TEs, I had to look up the Dolphins one for example and they still make 70 points. Maybe it is not necessary to bring in a veteran TE that other TE-less teams have disregarded so far, cut another player for him, teach him a playbook in a couple days and let him go out there and possibly disrupt things, because he is OJ Howard and not a great TE.

Irv Smith will hopefully be back, and they might have some ideas how to use him still. I'd rather take that approach and hope for Burrow to hit one of our outstanding receivers with frequency instead. Seems like that's what the Bengals are up to anyway.

I didn't say we need great TEs. I said TE is a weakness on this team. I then listed things I would do/have done to improve the position. 

(09-28-2023, 09:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I didn't say we need great TEs. I said TE is a weakness on this team. I then listed things I would do/have done to improve the position. 

Sure, and then I explained why I was against the specific idea of getting OJ Howard or Cameron Brate.

TE certainly is a weakness, but I think that might just be unaviodable and by design. Can't really have a team without one. Can gameplan around it.

In preseason, Hudson looked like a natural out there catching passes. Best looking pass catcher among all the TEs in preseason.

In his 1 game this season, he put up the best YPR among all the TEs (15.0) and actually leads all TEs in rec yards.

When it comes to blocking, Bengals don't really use TE to pass block. It's just run blocking.
Only 9 pass block snaps for TEs through 3 games.

While I know some people hate PFF grades, Tanner Hudson actually has the highest run block grade among the TEs (82.4).
The other TEs have more run block snaps, but maybe Hudson isn't as bad blocking as we think and he just needs to get more snaps in general.

If Hudson were to even average ~30 yards a game from here on out, he'd have ~400-500 yards on the season, which is right about what Bengals TEs have been around in recent years.

Last, it's not like Bengals have some big money going toward Irv Smith or Drew Sample to justify playing them a lot over Hudson.
Smith's getting just $1.75 mill this season, Sample just $1.1 mill.

(09-28-2023, 07:08 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Not ready to write Irv Smith off just yet but he does need to prove he can stay on the field.

Fine with me if Hudson makes the 53 and Sample goes down when Smith is healthy as well.

Exactly where I am at on this. I like Irv Smith if he can stay healthy but that is a huge if with his history.

I like Hudson as a pass catcher though and understand why some would push for him over a TE with a bad injury history and a TE 
that can only block and is slow as molasses in Sample.

how about this...

whichever tight end is the best, thats the one you start

(09-28-2023, 10:00 AM)maclanta Wrote: The thread is based on limited observations…

1. Irv Smith seems to have limited availability 2. Most of the data for Hudson is preseason against 2s and 3s, but in his one opportunity he flashed

It makes for an interesting question at the least. Happy to get others opinions.

I think we will get at least one more week of him as Smith heals up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smith's issue for his career has definately been injuries.

(09-28-2023, 11:38 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course, I wouldn't. 



That's a failure of the front office. 

The team did the bare minimum to address TE this offseason. I liked Smith. But, because he's hurt so much...I would have liked to see a primary TE signed with him as the secondary.

(09-28-2023, 10:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: In preseason, Hudson looked like a natural out there catching passes. Best looking pass catcher among all the TEs in preseason.

In his 1 game this season, he put up the best YPR among all the TEs (15.0) and actually leads all TEs in rec yards.

When it comes to blocking, Bengals don't really use TE to pass block. It's just run blocking.
Only 9 pass block snaps for TEs through 3 games.

While I know some people hate PFF grades, Tanner Hudson actually has the highest run block grade among the TEs (82.4).
The other TEs have more run block snaps, but maybe Hudson isn't as bad blocking as we think and he just needs to get more snaps in general.

If Hudson were to even average ~30 yards a game from here on out, he'd have ~400-500 yards on the season, which is right about what Bengals TEs have been around in recent years.

Last, it's not like Bengals have some big money going toward Irv Smith or Drew Sample to justify playing them a lot over Hudson.
Smith's getting just $1.75 mill this season, Sample just $1.1 mill.

I saw him pancake a guy on one run.

(09-29-2023, 01:40 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: how about this...

whichever tight end is the best, thats the one you start

Getouttahere with your common sense take! :angry:

(09-28-2023, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears you have me confused with someone who doesn't think TE is a weakness on this team. IMO we should have taken Darnell Washington instead of trading back and getting Battle/Robbins. I woulda taken Josh Whylie over Charlie Jones.  

It's depressing that we consider ourselves a Superbowl contender; yet we're throwing passes to the likes of Tanner Hudson/Mitchell Wilcox, while folks like OJ Howard and Cameron Brate walk the streets.

IDC who's to blame: FO, coaches, Bengals Message Board. 

I also was hoping that the Bengals would take Darnell Washington when he had fallen to the 3rd round. But apparently there were  knee injury concerns and, lo and behold, he now has a knee injury. And, while he has been Pittsburgh's best blocking TE, he has yet to be targeted for a pass. So, maybe the Bengals will prove good in their draft assessment.

(09-28-2023, 08:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: It appears you have me confused with someone who doesn't think TE is a weakness on this team. IMO we should have taken Darnell Washington instead of trading back and getting Battle/Robbins. I woulda taken Josh Whylie over Charlie Jones.  

It's depressing that we consider ourselves a Superbowl contender; yet we're throwing passes to the likes of Tanner Hudson/Mitchell Wilcox, while folks like OJ Howard and Cameron Brate walk the streets.

IDC who's to blame: FO, coaches, Bengals Message Board. 

All three!

I was big on Washington after looking at his film.  He may be raw, but he is a blocking machine who can catch.  Just what the doctor ordered for at team needing to help Jonah with speed rushing DEs, can inline block and block on the run (including coming across the formation and blowing up the middle), can catch tough balls on the edges and over the middle helping to move the sticks.  He would have diversified our offense and offered a way to protect our wounded QB and upgrade the running game.

(09-29-2023, 02:26 PM)Nepa Wrote: I also was hoping that the Bengals would take Darnell Washington when he had fallen to the 3rd round. But apparently there were  knee injury concerns and, lo and behold, he now has a knee injury. And, while he has been Pittsburgh's best blocking TE, he has yet to be targeted for a pass. So, maybe the Bengals will prove good in their draft assessment.

Same here and was wanting DW, but our FO clearly knew something we did not at the time and made the right decision in not drafting him.

Robbins still should improve and he is the one pick where I would of taken a TE instead in hindsight. Murphy could be a stud down the road 
for us, but I also would of been fine with Michael Mayer at 28 too.

(09-29-2023, 02:26 PM)Nepa Wrote: I also was hoping that the Bengals would take Darnell Washington when he had fallen to the 3rd round. But apparently there were  knee injury concerns and, lo and behold, he now has a knee injury. And, while he has been Pittsburgh's best blocking TE, he has yet to be targeted for a pass. So, maybe the Bengals will prove good in their draft assessment.

Yeah. I posted without considering hindsight. I mentioned Mallory in the 4th, but it looks like C-Sizzle is working out. Given hindsight I'd say: Sam LaPorta doesn't look like a bad 1st RD pick 4 games into the season.