Well it was a fun season. Damn shame it ends this way.

Well, that's a shame. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.

Wow i can't believe they're even half way back right now. Trying to not go down without a fight.

Reds trying to make a comeback. I don't think they will though. Great season and get some pitching next year.

What the hell happened to Diaz? Just can't get anyone out lately.

I will miss watching the Reds games almost every day especially in the evening. Always part of my summer. Can't wait til next year.

(10-01-2023, 01:13 AM)guyofthetiger Wrote: I will miss watching the Reds games almost every day especially in the evening. Always part of my summer. Can't wait til next year.

Yeah.  I never expected them to remain interesting up until the end of the regular season.  It will take some adjustment to get used to them not being on TV most nights.

(09-30-2023, 10:12 PM)guyofthetiger Wrote: Reds trying to make a comeback. I don't think they will though. Great season and get some pitching next year.

That's the whole key if they seriously are gonna try and contend next season. It's really amazing they stayed in the hunt with the crew they had this season.

We need a true Ace, 15 game winner+ 3.something ERA, a stopper. We need another top starter, 12 game winner+ high 3's ERA, inning eater. We can't go on with starters averaging 4 innings, burns up the bullpen. See Diaz getting rocked to end this season.

(10-01-2023, 09:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the whole key if they seriously are gonna try and contend next season. It's really amazing they stayed in the hunt with the crew they had this season.

We need a true Ace, 15 game winner+ 3.something ERA, a stopper. We need another top starter, 12 game winner+ high 3's ERA, inning eater. We can't go on with starters averaging 4 innings, burns up the bullpen. See Diaz getting rocked to end this season.

I think the young starters would be just fine if they could actually stay in the rotation.  

Their health has been volatile at best.  

They need at least one veteran starter, preferably two to stabilize.

They won't, but if the organization signed two good vet starters int he offseason, they'd become instant contenders.  I'm thinking like Sonny Gray and Blake Snell.  Guys who would be costly, but not necessarily long-term.  

They have a laughably low payroll.  It could be done easily.  One day the clowns that own this team will realize what the Browns and Blackburns did: When you spend money to build a good team, people want to spend money to support them.  Stop bitching about people not coming to games when there's no real effort on ownership's end to boost the product.  As with the Bengals, the large amount of cheap talent early int heir careers affords them the opportunity to spend and enhance.  

I anticipate that the mantra of the offseason will be: "Follow the Plan", second only to "New York and San Diego Spent Big and Lost".  

(10-01-2023, 01:41 PM)samhain Wrote: I think the young starters would be just fine if they could actually stay in the rotation.  

Their health has been volatile at best.  

They need at least one veteran starter, preferably two to stabilize.

They won't, but if the organization signed two good vet starters int he offseason, they'd become instant contenders.  I'm thinking like Sonny Gray and Blake Snell.  Guys who would be costly, but not necessarily long-term.  

They have a laughably low payroll.  It could be done easily.  One day the clowns that own this team will realize what the Browns and Blackburns did: When you spend money to build a good team, people want to spend money to support them.  Stop bitching about people not coming to games when there's no real effort on ownership's end to boost the product.  As with the Bengals, the large amount of cheap talent early int heir careers affords them the opportunity to spend and enhance.  

I anticipate that the mantra of the offseason will be: "Follow the Plan", second only to "New York and San Diego Spent Big and Lost".  

Yep  

MLB is about pitching. If you've got it you can be a real player. If you don't you're not.

Greene, Ashcraft, Abbott, and Lodolo are a good base to build off of. But they need a true seasoned vet who can pitch 180-200 innings. Post that 3.30 ERA, win 15 games, stop losing streaks and so on.

And like you say I'd prefer they get a Sonny Gray type as well. Inning eater, 10-12 game wins and so on. They can't just hope that the crew they have now is gonna all take the next step. I don't have a lot of faith Greene is ever gonna be a ture ace, so on so on.

If the Reds won these last two games (or any 2 games), they would be headed to the playoffs right now. Dbacks were swept by the Astros.

That's a shame.

(10-01-2023, 06:52 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: If the Reds won these last two games (or any 2 games), they would be headed to the playoffs right now. Dbacks were swept by the Astros.

That's a shame.

The last three losses in a row of the last homestand will always bug the shit out of me.

Greene 7 IP, 3 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 14 K, 1 BB - Reds lose 5-3 to the Twins after giving up 3 runs in the 9th

Gibaut takes the loss by giving up two unearned runs in a crazy game. Reds lead, tied, Reds trailing, Reds lead, Reds trailing, Reds lead, Reds lose.

Up 9-0 and then lose 13-12. That's twice this season that the Reds scored double digit runs and lost. The other game was 11-10 vs the Giants.

Well, the Dbacks did their part. They lost out and the Beng...errrr, Reds just needed to beat the shitty Cardinals but instead they dropped the last 2. 

I'm sure that will add a little extra sting in the offseason and with the way the shitty sports teams are in this area, i hope it does.

(10-01-2023, 09:44 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: That's the whole key if they seriously are gonna try and contend next season. It's really amazing they stayed in the hunt with the crew they had this season.

We need a true Ace, 15 game winner+ 3.something ERA, a stopper. We need another top starter, 12 game winner+ high 3's ERA, inning eater. We can't go on with starters averaging 4 innings, burns up the bullpen. See Diaz getting rocked to end this season.

I think two guys with a 4.00 ERA that can go out there and throw >150 innings would be easier to get and get the job done. 

Pretty much nobody the Reds have are reliable to pitch a full season. They need some slightly above average stability in their rotation. Would also do wonders to keep the bullpen from getting so burnt out if there were multiple guys who could be relied upon to go over 5 innings every outing.

Not flashy, but you put the 2023 version of former Reds Michael Lorenzen (4.18 ERA, 153 IP, 105 ERA+) and Josiah Gray (3.91 ERA, 159 IP, 110 ERA+) on the roster at the start of the season and they easily walk into the postseason.

- - - - - -

Pitching aside, they also need to stop striking out so damn much (5th in MLB), and add a HR slugger.

Play half our games in GAPB and our home run leader had 23 and the 2nd place weighs 180lbs and had 18.

That's an embarrassing lack of HRs in a HR park. 40-year-old Votto coming off shoulder surgery having just 242 PA was 6th on our team in HRs. Bleh.

(10-02-2023, 01:35 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think two guys with a 4.00 ERA that can go out there and throw >150 innings would be easier to get and get the job done. 

Pretty much nobody the Reds have are reliable to pitch a full season. They need some slightly above average stability in their rotation. Would also do wonders to keep the bullpen from getting so burnt out if there were multiple guys who could be relied upon to go over 5 innings every outing.

Not flashy, but you put the 2023 version of former Reds Michael Lorenzen (4.18 ERA, 153 IP, 105 ERA+) and Josiah Gray (3.91 ERA, 159 IP, 110 ERA+) on the roster at the start of the season and they easily walk into the postseason.

- - - - - -

Pitching aside, they also need to stop striking out so damn much (5th in MLB), and add a HR slugger.

Play half our games in GAPB and our home run leader had 23 and the 2nd place weighs 180lbs and had 18.

That's an embarrassing lack of HRs in a HR park. 40-year-old Votto coming off shoulder surgery having just 242 PA was 6th on our team in HRs. Bleh.

I agree with you mostly. I just feel we need pitching waayyy worse than a slugger.

Hunter Greene 24 so he's still young, however: Unless he can develop another offspeed pitch he can throw for strikes I think his peak is like a #3 starter. He's just to inconsistent to be much above a like 7-10 game winner, 4.00+ ERA and not very many innings.

Graham Ashcraft 25 so still in the considered young range, however: 7-9 with 4.76 ERA and a WHIP of 1.37 and 145 innings pitched doesn't fill me with confidence he can be a true #2 To be fair he pitched some excellent games this season. But he had some awful ones as well. And when the rubber meets the road it's about results, not the excuses.

Andrew Abbott 24 still a youngin, however: I worry A LOT about his endurance. Only 109 innings pitched this season and he was burnt out at like 75. His stat line is the best on the team basically speaking. 8-6 3.87 ERA 1.32 WHIP But I have serious doubts he's going to be anywhere near ready to pitch 180 - 200 innings next season as a true #2 winning 13 games or whatever?

Nick Lodolo 25 : has flashed being a real goodin ! First 3 or 4 games this season he was on fire. Then the injury. To me he's just to big a question mark to count on him being an upper level pitcher. I sure do hope though. It's great to have a top notch lefty.

Connor Phillips 22 : just still way to early to make anything of him

Brandon Williamson 25 : At best he's like a #5 starter 

In summary I just strongly feel we need a 200 inning proven vet ACE type pitcher and another 180 inning proven #2. We can't afford to waste another season hoping these guys develop

(10-02-2023, 12:23 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Andrew Abbott 24 still a youngin, however: I worry A LOT about his endurance. Only 109 innings pitched this season and he was burnt out at like 75.

Agreed with most of your post, but I will point out that 2023 was only Abbott's 3rd year as a starter (he was a relief pitcher for the first 3 years of his college career) and he pitched 54 innings in the minors before coming to the majors this year, so he actually pitched 115.1 innings before getting burnt out and pitched 163.1 on the year. 

I just hope they didn't wreck his arm/confidence for next year by continuing to throw him out there when he clearly had nothing left to give.

(10-02-2023, 12:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Agreed with most of your post, but I will point out that 2023 was only Abbott's 3rd year as a starter (he was a relief pitcher for the first 3 years of his college career) and he pitched 54 innings in the minors before coming to the majors this year, so he actually pitched 115.1 innings before getting burnt out and pitched 163.1 on the year. 

I just hope they didn't wreck his arm/confidence for next year by continuing to throw him out there when he clearly had nothing left to give.

Oh yeah forgot about that. Overall I believe I have more confidence in Abbott developing into a #1, #2 starter than the others. I hope Greene proves me wrong.

I just don't want to be in the mix next season through August then flame out again because we just don't have the pitching.

Sad the Reds didn't make the postseason, but I am hopeful going into 2024.
Someone projected out the arb costs for next year, and Reds payroll would only be ~$40 mill with everyone except Votto and Casali.
Those two guys would get their options declined.
If that happens, it would allow for $40+ mill to be invested in some actual pitching, maybe even another hitter or two.

Reds legit do have a chance to contend in 2024...as long as the organization is willing to spend SOMETHING.

(10-03-2023, 04:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Sad the Reds didn't make the postseason, but I am hopeful going into 2024.
Someone projected out the arb costs for next year, and Reds payroll would only be ~$40 mill with everyone except Votto and Casali.
Those two guys would get their options declined.
If that happens, it would allow for $40+ mill to be invested in some actual pitching, maybe even another hitter or two.

Reds legit do have a chance to contend in 2024...as long as the organization is willing to spend SOMETHING.

Agree 

But the key is they have to, HAVE TO, get some proven upper tier starting pitchers. Is there a chance Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, Ashcraft, and Phillips will get the job done on their own? A little bit I guess?

But if they're really serious they need at least one true top tier guy and would be much better to get another proven mid level guy as well. Two guys with a track record of many innings per season of quality pitching. 

Here's my broken record statement again - MLB is won and lost on your pitching, period!

(10-04-2023, 09:43 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Agree 

But the key is they have to, HAVE TO, get some proven upper tier starting pitchers. Is there a chance Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, Ashcraft, and Phillips will get the job done on their own? A little bit I guess?

But if they're really serious they need at least one true top tier guy and would be much better to get another proven mid level guy as well. Two guys with a track record of many innings per season of quality pitching. 

Here's my broken record statement again - MLB is won and lost on your pitching, period!

Getting 1 proven SP is a good chance of happening, I think. At least when it comes to having the budget for it.
I think a 2nd proven SP who is mid-late rotation is also a possibility, but I don't think it's as likely.

I'm legit calling Sonny Gray this offseason to come back.
Maybe also Lorenzen.
Gray shouldn't cost more than $15 mill APY, Lorenzen $10 mill or less.
Reds could get two new SPs into the rotation for under $30 mill, possibly under $25 mill.
Would still have plenty to put toward relievers and another bat or two.