(10-08-2023, 08:54 PM)Housh Wrote: Don’t see the need to keep Tee if we are transitioning to this RPO offense.

Or Boyd honestly.

With this offense we ran today, it can be Burrow, Chase and no1 else even matters. They just gotta be able to catch a damn slant.

We played against one of the worst secondaries and defenses in the NFL today. Let’s slow it down a little like we have the #1 offense and don’t need 2 receivers.

Miami has Hill and Waddle, and just traded for yet another burner in Claypool.

If we stick with just one, and he gets injured…our offense is Trenton Irwin and Irving. Yikes. We need Chase and Tee. If chase puts up 150 and 2 TD against a legit D, week in and week out, then I could be convinced to keep just Chase.

(10-08-2023, 10:25 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I think Jonah falls somewhere in the middle of "very good" and "sucks". As the 2 of you assert. 

IMO RT is not a problem 

It's not a strength. It's a borderline weakness.

(10-08-2023, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And this is why you get the Fred label…

Tee has been banged up way more than Chase. It’s just a fact.

Everyone gets banged up on the NFL. If it doesn’t translate in substantially more or less games played does it matter?

The injuries Tre sustained didn’t result on him playing less than Chase, as evidenced by them having the same percentage of games played.

(10-08-2023, 10:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You can take the Fred stuff and stick it up your 4th point of contact. 

In the last 3 years, they've played in the same number of games. Perhaps, you're suggesting Tee plays injured while Chase does not. 

Chase is a better WR, we don't need to make things up to support the point. 

Yes Bfine, you're right, you completely figured it out. Both I, and the media, and history, and reality are just making up the 6 injuries Tee has had since Chase came into the league to Chase's 1. 

We can go back to your reality where we ignore that in 2021, Chase played 85.44% of the snaps and Higgins played 64.60% of the snaps because Tee got dinged multiple times. Or 2022 where Chase played 71.64% of the snaps and Higgins played 68.38 because again, Tee got dinged multiple times but this time Chase had exactly 1 injury that he still finished the game with, getting 130 yards and 2 TDs. Or 2023 where once again Higgins got knocked out of a game and missed another, just like he always does.

(10-08-2023, 11:11 PM)bfine32 Wrote: For real? I've given 1 "stat" and that's how many games each has played over the last 2+ years. 

As I've mentioned Chase is the better WR, but I won't point to durability as one of the factors. 

Cool, you may not, but when 1 has had 1 specific injury over 2 years and the other has had 6, durability is a factor. Chase has played roughly 400 more snaps than Tee since he was drafted. I’m no genius but that’s about 5 games worth of snaps (at the average 70 a game).

Context matters.

The more realistic thread:

Sign Chase and watch Tee either be tagged or go to another team.

Burrow to Chase + investing in an OL and drafting/signing affordable talent at RB, WR, and TE is the likely future.

more like the complete opposite, am I right?

(10-09-2023, 01:31 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Everyone gets banged up on the NFL. If it doesn’t translate in substantially more or less games played does it matter?

The injuries Tre sustained didn’t result on him playing less than Chase, as evidenced by them having the same percentage of games played.

Folks looking at "context" mustn't see Tee and Chase play a totally different game. We work to get Chase in space, while Tee's game is the contested ball. Tee is put in position to get dinged up more. But at the end of the day durability is not a strength for one and a weakness for the other.

If I were wanting to "prove" my point I could bring up how Chase missed twice as many games in his first 2 years than Tee did. It's what some on this board are known for. We cannot celebrate one without bashing the other. 

(10-09-2023, 10:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: while Tee's game is the contested ball.

I agree this is Tee's game and, although a simplification ignoring other variables, I think it is one reason why Tee isn't with the Bengals in the long run. Chase is getting the big contract and the Bengals can look to add a tall and athletic WR who can jump and go get the ball in the draft.

(10-09-2023, 10:34 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I agree this is Tee's game and, although a simplification ignoring other variables, I think it is one reason why Tee isn't with the Bengals in the long run. Chase is getting the big contract and the Bengals can look to add a tall and athletic WR who can jump and go get the ball in the draft.

Hell, I've advocated for letting Tee walk. I think the money could be better used for the likes of Reeder. I think we drafted Tee's possible replacement in Yoshi. That dude is tall, athletic, and can jump. Heck he even tried to channel his inner Chad with the top-tap yesterday. 

(10-09-2023, 10:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks looking at "context" mustn't see Tee and Chase play a totally different game. We work to get Chase in space, while Tee's game is the contested ball. Tee is put in position to get dinged up more. But at the end of the day durability is not a strength for one and a weakness for the other.

If I were wanting to "prove" my point I could bring up how Chase missed twice as many games in his first 2 years than Tee did. It's what some on this board are known for. We cannot celebrate one without bashing the other. 

Ja'Marr is a solid contested catch guy he has absurd play strength but Tee Higgins is top 5 maybe even top 3 in the NFL in contested catches. 

(10-09-2023, 10:41 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Hell, I've advocated for letting Tee walk. I think the money could be better used for the likes of Reeder. I think we drafted Tee's possible replacement in Yoshi. That dude is tall, athletic, and can jump. Heck he even tried to channel his inner Chad with the top-tap yesterday. 

I like having Tee and will hate to see him elsewhere but I don't think it's a sound budgetary move to put so much money in 1 QB and 2 WRs. Yes, the money saved on Tee be allocated to different positions. I think that's the smarter roster retooling decision.

I expect Keon Coleman to be in alot of mock drafts in the off-season. Could be another Chase vs Sewell debate with Coleman and Kingsley Suamataia (Penei Sewells cousin lol).

(10-09-2023, 10:31 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Folks looking at "context" mustn't see Tee and Chase play a totally different game. We work to get Chase in space, while Tee's game is the contested ball. Tee is put in position to get dinged up more. But at the end of the day durability is not a strength for one and a weakness for the other.

If I were wanting to "prove" my point I could bring up how Chase missed twice as many games in his first 2 years than Tee did. It's what some on this board are known for. We cannot celebrate one without bashing the other. 

Just going to skip over the fact that Chase has played 5 more games worth of snaps since he came into the league yet they “missed the same amount of games.”

One of Chase’s strengths is the fact that he can make people miss and avoid crushing hits. He has more YAC than Tee and therefore puts himself in more positions to get hit but usually avoids the big hit.

No one is bashing Tee. Saying one is more durable is factual. 1 injury is more durable than 6 injuries. Playing 5 games more worth of snaps when they’ve both not started the same amount of games since Chase entering the league is more durable.

Let’s break it down even further. In a full 16 game season more than Chase, Tee has seen 400 more snaps. Again, 5 games worth with a full more season.

Context….

(10-09-2023, 10:43 AM)Synric Wrote: Ja'Marr is a solid contested catch guy he has absurd play strength but Tee Higgins is top 5 maybe even top 3 in the NFL in contested catches. 

Going off Player Profiler, Chase is 32nd in contested catch % this year at 50%.  Tee is 58th at 40%.

Most would be surprised to learn that per Statmuse, Boyd actually had the highest contested catch % on the roster last year.

I'm not saying Tee is a bum or anything at contested catches, but they are such a big % of his grabs that he tends to be overrated in this area.  

It will be a hard decision with Higgins.  I think you can still make the case that he's worth the tag, provided he doesn't continue to struggle, but it's hard to justify a long term deal, especially with the season he's having.

(10-09-2023, 12:43 PM)Whatever Wrote: Going off Player Profiler, Chase is 32nd in contested catch % this year at 50%.  Tee is 58th at 40%.

Most would be surprised to learn that per Statmuse, Boyd actually had the highest contested catch % on the roster last year.

I'm not saying Tee is a bum or anything at contested catches, but they are such a big % of his grabs that he tends to be overrated in this area.  

It will be a hard decision with Higgins.  I think you can still make the case that he's worth the tag, provided he doesn't continue to struggle, but it's hard to justify a long term deal, especially with the season he's having.

I was basing it off this PFF Stat.

Most contested catches since 2020:

?Tee Higgins - 97
?Mike Williams - 96 pic.twitter.com/aWBnqxRrW2

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) January 30, 2023

 

(10-09-2023, 12:50 PM)Synric Wrote: I was basing it off this PFF Stat.

Most contested catches since 2020:

?Tee Higgins - 97
?Mike Williams - 96 pic.twitter.com/aWBnqxRrW2

— PFF Fantasy Football (@PFF_Fantasy) January 30, 2023

 

Honestly, that doesn't surprise me, simply because so many of Tee's catches and targets are contested.

Ultimately, I have serious trepidation paying a clear cut WR2 that's having to make a lot of contested catches against #2 CB's elite money.

(10-09-2023, 11:57 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Just going to skip over the fact that Chase has played 5 more games worth of snaps since he came into the league yet they “missed the same amount of games.”

One of Chase’s strengths is the fact that he can make people miss and avoid crushing hits. He has more YAC than Tee and therefore puts himself in more positions to get hit but usually avoids the big hit.

No one is bashing Tee. Saying one is more durable is factual. 1 injury is more durable than 6 injuries. Playing 5 games more worth of snaps when they’ve both not started the same amount of games since Chase entering the league is more durable.

Let’s break it down even further. In a full 16 game season more than Chase, Tee has seen 400 more snaps. Again, 5 games worth with a full more season.

Context….

Sure, you can consider durability a plus for Ja'Marr over Chase without taking into "context" what they are asked to do.

I'm done.. 

(10-09-2023, 03:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, you can consider durability a plus for Ja'Marr over Chase without taking into "context" what they are asked to do.

I'm done.. 

Chase is and has always been asked to do more. Averages more snaps, more targets, more catches, but sure Tee is asked to do “harder” things.

When you can’t provide actual data to back up your arguments you get the “I’m done.”

(10-09-2023, 03:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, you can consider durability a plus for Ja'Marr over Chase without taking into "context" what they are asked to do.

I'm done.. 

I'm confused.