(10-22-2023, 12:34 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Well to be fair: No player gets signed before a team signs him. 

I do agree the Bengals have gone "cheap" on TE. We hate on Irv, but the dude's just doing what he can and not getting paid much to do it. 

Yea, and pretty much every other good to slightly below average TE got signed before the Bengals signed Smith to a super cheap deal. Which to me indicates most teams didn't see much in him including the Bengals. I agree the blame should go more on the Bengals than Irv since he's been about what he's always been. JAG

(10-22-2023, 01:32 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Imagine a healthy Eifert back in his prime with this offense. The only knock on him was his health and lack of run blocking but he changed defensive gameplans when he was healthy. And that was with AJ Green out there too. This team has nothing at tight end to change a defensive gameplan, so that just makes it that much easier for the other team to prepare for, especially with not much of a threat out of the backfield.

I think I will take a prime Gresham over a prime Eifert. Eifert was an absolute weapon in the redzone, but I like my TEs to be TEs rather than oversized WRs. Gronk/Kittle over Kelce/Graham. I acknowledge that's certainly not a universally agreed with belief though.

If I were going to pick one offensive skill player from those Dalton teams to put onto this team, despite this being a TE thread, it would have been a prime Gio. Absolute stonewall of a blocking RB and a true pass catching weapon out of the backfield. It's hard to have a better friend for a QB than a RB with good hands and good blocking, and he could stay on the field for 3rd and 4th down and 2 minute drives.

(10-22-2023, 02:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think I will take a prime Gresham over a prime Eifert. Eifert was an absolute weapon in the redzone, but I like my TEs to be TEs rather than oversized WRs. Gronk/Kittle over Kelce/Graham. I acknowledge that's certainly not a universally agreed with belief though.

If I were going to pick one offensive skill player from those Dalton teams to put onto this team, despite this being a TE thread, it would have been a prime Gio. Absolute stonewall of a blocking RB and a true pass catching weapon out of the backfield. It's hard to have a better friend for a QB than a RB with good hands and good blocking, and he could stay on the field for 3rd and 4th down and 2 minute drives.

overall loved Gio, but I cant forget that flubbed reception in endzone in that playoff game VS Chargers that was an interception not a TD. That changed that game and sucked out all momentum.  That was our yr it seemed. 

(10-22-2023, 02:14 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think I will take a prime Gresham over a prime Eifert. Eifert was an absolute weapon in the redzone, but I like my TEs to be TEs rather than oversized WRs. Gronk/Kittle over Kelce/Graham. I acknowledge that's certainly not a universally agreed with belief though.

If I were going to pick one offensive skill player from those Dalton teams to put onto this team, despite this being a TE thread, it would have been a prime Gio. Absolute stonewall of a blocking RB and a true pass catching weapon out of the backfield. It's hard to have a better friend for a QB than a RB with good hands and good blocking, and he could stay on the field for 3rd and 4th down and 2 minute drives.

No way. I'd take Eifert every time.

(10-24-2023, 08:26 AM)Sled21 Wrote: No way. I'd take Eifert every time.

I’d tend to agree with you… however touchdowns are fluky and getting 13 in a year is great. That said, he never came close to that again, in fact in the other 61 games he (Eifert) played in, he got 13 touchdowns.

Eifert career: 74 games, 221 catches for 2501 yards and 26 TDs.
Per game: 2.98 catches for 33.8 yards and .35 TDs/game
Per game, without 2015: 2.77 for 30.91 and .21 TDs a game.
His other metrics stayed about even, outside of TDs.


Gresham career: 132 games, 377 catches for 3752 yards and 29 TDs
Per game: 2.85 catches for 28.42 and .22 TDs/game.

Long story short, I believe we are stuck on that magnificent 2015 season from Eifert and we don’t look at his career as a whole, injuries aside.

(10-24-2023, 09:31 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I’d tend to agree with you… however touchdowns are fluky and getting 13 in a year is great.  That said, he never came close to that again, in fact in the other 61 games he (Eifert) played in, he got 13 touchdowns.

Eifert career: 74 games, 221 catches for 2501 yards and 26 TDs.
Per game:  2.98 catches for 33.8 yards and .35 TDs/game
Per game, without 2015: 2.77 for 30.91 and .21 TDs a game.  
   His other metrics stayed about even, outside of TDs.  


Gresham career: 132 games, 377 catches for 3752 yards and 29 TDs
Per game: 2.85 catches for 28.42 and .22 TDs/game.

Long story short, I believe we are stuck on that magnificent 2015 season from Eifert and we don’t look at his career as a whole, injuries aside.

I always liked the physicality Gresham brought..the dude was a horse. 

(10-24-2023, 09:31 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: I’d tend to agree with you… however touchdowns are fluky and getting 13 in a year is great.  That said, he never came close to that again, in fact in the other 61 games he (Eifert) played in, he got 13 touchdowns.

Eifert career: 74 games, 221 catches for 2501 yards and 26 TDs.
Per game:  2.98 catches for 33.8 yards and .35 TDs/game
Per game, without 2015: 2.77 for 30.91 and .21 TDs a game.  
   His other metrics stayed about even, outside of TDs.  


Gresham career: 132 games, 377 catches for 3752 yards and 29 TDs
Per game: 2.85 catches for 28.42 and .22 TDs/game.

Long story short, I believe we are stuck on that magnificent 2015 season from Eifert and we don’t look at his career as a whole, injuries aside.

I remember being so excited when Gresham was added to the Bengals.
Finally, the Bengals were going to have a legit pass catching TE.
And he put up pretty good production every year he was a Bengal.
But for whatever reason, Marvin/Gruden didn't think Gresham was quite good enough in that department and jumped at the chance when Eifert fell to them. Or maybe Gresham had already indicated at that point that he wasn't going to re-sign so they prepared two years prior to Gresham hitting FA (doubtful).

I'd love a TE like Gresham/Eifert again who can be the 3rd option in an offense or step up to 2nd if an injury occurs.

(10-25-2023, 12:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I remember being so excited when Gresham was added to the Bengals.
Finally, the Bengals were going to have a legit pass catching TE.
And he put up pretty good production every year he was a Bengal.
But for whatever reason, Marvin/Gruden didn't think Gresham was quite good enough in that department and jumped at the chance when Eifert fell to them. Or maybe Gresham had already indicated at that point that he wasn't going to re-sign so they prepared two years prior to Gresham hitting FA (doubtful).

I'd love a TE like Gresham/Eifert again who can be the 3rd option in an offense or step up to 2nd if an injury occurs.

Especially after we were all so very excited about drafting Chase Coffman previously, who turned out to be a dud in the NFL.

(10-25-2023, 12:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Especially after we were all so very excited about drafting Chase Coffman previously, who turned out to be a dud in the NFL.

"Chase, you're standing straight up and down like a wedding d*ck."
Best quote from Hard Knocks still to this day lol

We are more than a third of the way thru the season. Boyd is on pace for under 600 yards at 6.8 yards per catch. Tee on pace for under 450 yards at 10 yards per catch. Irwin on pace for under 240 yards at 8 yards per catch. Chase is on pace for 1500 yards great huh??? Well Chase has an 11 yard per catch average, and he will need 150 catches to get to that 1500 yards since he is at 50 catches now.

All of these players could not have gotten worse from last year to this year it is because Joe Burrow is the QB. Joe Burrow chose to play injured, so it is hard to point your fingers at the TE when everyone stats suck this year because we played a hurt QB.

(10-25-2023, 02:15 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: We are more than a third of the way thru the season. Boyd is on pace for under 600 yards at 6.8 yards per catch. Tee on pace for under 450 yards at 10 yards per catch. Irwin on pace for under 240 yards at 8 yards per catch. Chase is on pace for 1500 yards great huh??? Well Chase has an 11 yard per catch average, and he will need 150 catches to get to that 1500 yards since he is at 50 catches now.

All of these players could not have gotten worse from last year to this year it is because Joe Burrow is the QB. Joe Burrow chose to play injured, so it is hard to point your fingers at the TE when everyone stats suck this year because we played a hurt QB.

anytime the offense struggles, people here always think think the solution is even more pass catchers lol

(10-25-2023, 02:15 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: We are more than a third of the way thru the season. Boyd is on pace for under 600 yards at 6.8 yards per catch. Tee on pace for under 450 yards at 10 yards per catch. Irwin on pace for under 240 yards at 8 yards per catch. Chase is on pace for 1500 yards great huh??? Well Chase has an 11 yard per catch average, and he will need 150 catches to get to that 1500 yards since he is at 50 catches now.

All of these players could not have gotten worse from last year to this year it is because Joe Burrow is the QB. Joe Burrow chose to play injured, so it is hard to point your fingers at the TE when everyone stats suck this year because we played a hurt QB.

Except the TEs are in a class by themselves on this team.

Burrow has looked pretty normal the past two games, so let's just look at those so we can remove the injury excuse.

Receiving in those two games:
Chase - 272 yards
Irwin/Higgins - 80 yards
Boyd - 77 yards
Mixon - 37 yards

The TEs?
2 receptions for 9 yards total (Smith - 5 yards, Sample - 4 yards)

So no, it's not just Burrow's injury making them ineffective.

(10-25-2023, 02:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Except the TEs are in a class by themselves on this team.

Burrow has looked pretty normal the past two games, so let's just look at those so we can remove the injury excuse.

Receiving in those two games:
Chase - 272 yards
Irwin/Higgins - 80 yards
Boyd - 77 yards
Mixon - 37 yards

The TEs?
2 receptions for 9 yards total (Smith - 5 yards, Sample - 4 yards)

So no, it's not just Burrow's injury making them ineffective.

Chase, Boyd. Higgins. Irwin and Mixon have all been with Burrow for 4 plus years it is Irv's first year and Sample only produced 1 year here and is not the main TE target. Nobody is the main TE target this year we are just not throwing the ball to the TE.

It's so weird to see fans of this team to defend subpar TEs and respond like "we don't really need a pass catching TE in this offense".

Why the hell not?

You should always improve where you're lacking, and certainly don't take steps backwards.

But hey, if you want to hang your hat on blocking-only Sample and an injury prone/lackluster Irv Smith is your jam... have at it.

We're livin' in crazy times.

(10-25-2023, 12:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I remember being so excited when Gresham was added to the Bengals.
Finally, the Bengals were going to have a legit pass catching TE.
And he put up pretty good production every year he was a Bengal.
But for whatever reason, Marvin/Gruden didn't think Gresham was quite good enough in that department and jumped at the chance when Eifert fell to them. Or maybe Gresham had already indicated at that point that he wasn't going to re-sign so they prepared two years prior to Gresham hitting FA (doubtful).

I'd love a TE like Gresham/Eifert again who can be the 3rd option in an offense or step up to 2nd if an injury occurs.

Bengals were a big 2 TE team. Heck, they still have shown signs of wanting to be a 2 TE team as both Hurst and Sample started the first 2 games of 2022 before Sample got hurt.

I don't think the Bengals relationship with Gresham turned sour because of Eifert. I think that happened until 2014 because of Dave Lapham publicly targeting him and calling him a quitter while he was hurt and playing with a herniated disc. It was the second time he needed hernia surgery in a year and why his yards per catch were so low that year.

Feeling like the medical staff let you down, and the voice of the team unfairly and personally putting you on blast and trying to turn the entire fanbase against you is pretty much a bridge burner.

(10-25-2023, 09:00 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: Chase, Boyd. Higgins. Irwin and Mixon have all been with Burrow for 4 plus years it is Irv's first year and Sample only produced 1 year here and is not the main TE target. Nobody is the main TE target this year we are just not throwing the ball to the TE.

Hayden Hurst also was brand new to the team last year and still put up over 400 yards.
400+ yards is the minimum expectation for me when it comes to TE in this offense.
Ideally, I want a TE who can put up 500-700 yards by getting better YPR.

Let's stop beating around the bush and just admit this is the least talented TE room the Bengals have had in the Taylor era.

(10-26-2023, 10:20 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Hayden Hurst also was brand new to the team last year and still put up over 400 yards.
400+ yards is the minimum expectation for me when it comes to TE in this offense.
Ideally, I want a TE who can put up 500-700 yards by getting better YPR.

Let's stop beating around the bush and just admit this is the least talented TE room the Bengals have had in the Taylor era.

not to mention also being the worst TE room in NFL from what I have witnessed

Running back also. Why do better teams (standings). Go out and make themself better before the trade dead line. Bengals always say na we are good?

(10-26-2023, 10:20 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Hayden Hurst also was brand new to the team last year and still put up over 400 yards.
400+ yards is the minimum expectation for me when it comes to TE in this offense.
Ideally, I want a TE who can put up 500-700 yards by getting better YPR.

Let's stop beating around the bush and just admit this is the least talented TE room the Bengals have had in the Taylor era.

Are we going to judge this TE on 2 games played with like 3 targets in those games? You know since we threw out the first 4 games because of an injured QB. 

By your metric we should get rid of Tee since a number 2 WR should get way more then 450 yards this season. I mean you expect a TE new to the team to produce at least 400 yards and as high as 750 yards then surely Tee is underachieving with 14 receptions on 36 targets for 149 yards on the year. Hell our number 3 WR has 200 yards with 30 receptions on 41 targets for an average of 6.8 yards per. But you want to get rid of a guy that has had 11 targets on the year thru 6 games less then 2 targets per game.

I am all for upgrading when we can but the time to upgrade RB and TE was in the offseason when RB were dirt cheap and being cut left and right and TE were all playing musical chairs on teams. We need a trade partner now, so it does take 2 to tango you know the Billionaire boys club that seems to hate the Bengals ownership and screws us any time they get a chance like with the coin flip last year when only one other team thought we was being screwed over???

Just saying do not expect a huge block buster trade before the deadline. We have to build our team thru free agency and the draft since our ownership is hated league wide. 

(10-25-2023, 09:45 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: It's so weird to see fans of this team to defend subpar TEs and respond like "we don't really need a pass catching TE in this offense".

Why the hell not?

You should always improve where you're lacking, and certainly don't take steps backwards.

But hey, if you want to hang your hat on blocking-only Sample and an injury prone/lackluster Irv Smith is your jam... have at it.

We're livin' in crazy times.

Nice post Rocker. We DO need to improve TE regardless of how they are being used or targeted. I think if Burrow had a talented TE 
that could get open he would be hitting him.