OK, Votto and Reds have an option for one more year. It is for a much lower salary. Nothing close to what Votto has been getting paid. There is no reason to just give Votto more money than what is in the option, and I can see reasons not to keep Votto and give his spot to young players moving up.

The Reds are now out from under the Moose contract and the Votto contract, and combined that is hundreds of millions off the payroll. Let's keep it that way.

So OK, if they have Votto one more year, do it on The Cheap with the agreed to lower salary option year. I think Votto gets a million or 2, nothing close to the mega millions he has been paid these last 10 years.

If Votto plays one more year or not, The Reds need to follow through on being out from under what The Moose was paid including this past season for another team, AND out from under the weight of The Votto no trade contract. What the Reds will save ending those 2 contracts NOW, will help get The Reds back on pace in franchise money and secure the future in Cincinnati. The Reds were losing great money from covid on, but they did have more fans in 2023 and these monster contracts ending is much needed.

To most of you this is Sports. When you think of trades, spending money, keeping players, you are thinking Sports. However The Pros is a Business. Each team is a franchise. If the franchise fails, it closes or moves to another city. Reds owners losing money were faced with moving to another city, and they said just that last few years. Now since Cincinnati is the home of the first Pro baseball team ever, it would be a shame to see Reds in any other city than Cincinnati. Getting The Reds back financially has to be the Number One priority, to keep Reds in Cincinnati. The Reds would be wise to take the money they no longer have to pay Moose or Votto, and let it collect Interest in the bank for a while. Fans won't like that, they will yell, " Spend, Spend, Spend ", because it is not their money team has been losing.

So in summation, Keep Reds In Cincinnati by getting back financially after Moose and Votto contracts are now over. IF the Reds or Votto do the one year option at end of his contract, keep it to the much lower pay figure. So if Votto stays, it won't be anything close to what he has been getting paid the last 10 years. It will be about a 90 % or 80 % pay reduction for Votto. Not a pay increase, but a huge pay decrease.

I think Reds can stay in Cincinnati many decades to come IF they are smart financially now. Reds Owners said they took a beating on Covid no fans and no minor leagues 2020, and few fans in 2021 and 2022. Take that Moose and Votto money and let it collect interest in the bank for a year or two. If Votto plays one more year here, it must be on the Lower Pay Option in his contract. The Reds must put keeping The Reds in Cincinnati above Joey Votto and any crazy notion to give him more money than he is under contract for in 2024. If Votto chooses not to play for the lesser amount, that is fine also, that means one more young player can be kept on the roster.

I must add that if Votto plays one more year for Reds or not, certainly a Joey Votto Day is in Reds near future. Also at some point in Reds Hall of Fame. Probably a Statue. It is a good for Votto, but good financially for Reds also since such events bring sell out crowds. This is The Pro's. Money is a factor and Reds admit they need Money.

I don't want Votto to return and wish he would retire a Red. The Reds can use the contract money for some good pitching next year.

I don't have the link, but I recently read a story where Votto says he won't accept a part time role. If true, that would seal it for me. No deal. Dude hasn't been good in three plus years. Even in a DH role, his hitting is DONE. He doesn't field well, hasn't run the base paths well in what seems like forever. Father Time catches up to us all. So even if he was to lower his pricetag to something reasonable, his play IS NOT WORTH THE PAY. I want CES taking up those 1B duties. Or Steer. Or Stephenson occasionally. Guys with upside. Guys with a future in the game. Not a 40+ year old man way past his expiration date.

If he wants a full time role...1B coach. Or hitting coach. Take it or leave it.

We have to let the young hitters develop. We definitely need more pitching depth though. Whether starter(Abbott) or reliever(Diaz), our pitchers were tapped out.
Votto is more sentimental than anything else. Not really a main priority.

Votto and Casali both had their options officially declined.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/reds-decline-club-options-on-joey-votto-curt-casali.html

(10-27-2023, 10:07 AM)The D.O.Z. Wrote: I don't have the link, but I recently read a story where Votto says he won't accept a part time role. If true, that would seal it for me. No deal. Dude hasn't been good in three plus years. Even in a DH role, his hitting is DONE. He doesn't field well, hasn't run the base paths well in what seems like forever. Father Time catches up to us all. So even if he was to lower his pricetag to something reasonable, his play IS NOT WORTH THE PAY. I want CES taking up those 1B duties. Or Steer. Or Stephenson occasionally. Guys with upside. Guys with a future in the game. Not a 40+ year old man way past his expiration date.

If he wants a full time role...1B coach. Or hitting coach. Take it or leave it.

Agree, no way I bring Votto back as a starter or for that matter regular sub/DH whatever? He needs to ride off into the sunset.

(11-04-2023, 01:00 PM)cinci4life Wrote: Votto and Casali both had their options officially declined.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/reds-decline-club-options-on-joey-votto-curt-casali.html

Good

I don't hate Votto but, he needs to retire.

Here's the key dates for FA this year....

Nov. 2: Players with 6+ years of service time without contracts are officially free agents. Eligible players must wait five days before signing with a new team. At this time, they're only allowed to speak with their previous team about a new contract.

Nov. 6: This is a big day. It includes several deadlines and beginnings for the MLB offseason. Free agency officially opens up. This day marks the deadline for teams to tender eligible free agents to a qualifying offer. Contract option decisions are also due on this date.

I have no problem with letting Joey go. I like him as a clubhouse presence for the young players, but a full time role is a tough thing to guarantee him. The kids need playing time to develop, and accommodating Joey at that price is questionable at best.

My only question is whether or not they actually use the money they save by letting him go.

Until further evidence materializes, this ownership group makes Uncle Scrooge look like a drunken sailor. The Castellini's are demonstrable cheap shitheads who say dumb shit at inopportune times.

If the payroll fails to exceed 75 mil this year, then screw these clown owners. Supplementing with serious veteran pitching would do a lot for this group. We've seen that teams can catch lightning in a bottle under the new gameplay rules. Small market teams have a chance to catch the big dogs unawares for a few seasons as they adjust to the new reality.

The iron is hot. Strike now and get the team the pieces needed to make them a power in the division. They may never have another opportunity like this. They have a mountain of young talent and a metric shit ton of payroll space. Be smart and build a serious team.

Joey can sign with Toronto next year and be close to home.

pic.twitter.com/b6by6rXPKP

— Joey Votto (@JoeyVotto) November 5, 2023

I really wish they would have put some better teams around him and won at LEAST a NLCS during his tenure. We had some good teams during his earlier years that had the guys, just couldn't get over the hump. Losing a two game series lead to the Giants. Getting no-hit by the Phillies. Swept in the COVID season. It's maddening.

(10-26-2023, 12:25 PM)kevin Wrote: OK, Votto and Reds have an option for one more year.  It is for a much lower salary.  Nothing close to what Votto has been getting paid.   There is no reason to just give Votto more money than what is in the option, and I can see reasons not to keep Votto and give his spot to young players moving up.

The Reds are now out from under the Moose contract and the Votto contract, and combined that is hundreds of millions off the payroll. Let's keep it that way.

So OK, if they have Votto one more year, do it on The Cheap with the agreed to lower salary option year.  I think Votto gets a million or 2, nothing close to the mega millions he has been paid these last 10 years.  

If Votto plays one more year or not, The Reds need to follow through on being out from under what The Moose was paid including this past season for another team, AND out from under the weight of The Votto no trade contract.  What the Reds will save ending those 2 contracts NOW, will help get The Reds back on pace in franchise money and secure the future in Cincinnati.  The Reds were losing great money from covid on, but they did have more fans in 2023 and these monster contracts ending is much needed.

To most of you this is Sports.  When you think of trades, spending money, keeping players, you are thinking Sports.  However The Pros is a Business.  Each team is a franchise. If the franchise fails, it closes or moves to another city.  Reds owners losing money were faced with moving to another city, and they said just that last few years.  Now since Cincinnati is the home of the first Pro baseball team ever, it would be a shame to see Reds in any other city than Cincinnati.   Getting The Reds back financially has to be the Number One priority, to keep Reds in Cincinnati.  The Reds would be wise to take the money they no longer have to pay Moose or Votto, and let it collect Interest in the bank for a while.  Fans won't like that, they will yell, " Spend, Spend, Spend ", because it is not their money team has been losing.

So in summation, Keep Reds In Cincinnati by getting back financially after Moose and Votto contracts are now over.  IF the Reds or Votto do the one year option at end of his contract, keep it to the much lower pay figure.  So if Votto stays, it won't be anything close to what he has been getting paid the last 10 years.  It will be about a 90 % or 80 % pay reduction for Votto.  Not a pay increase, but a huge pay decrease.

I think Reds can stay in Cincinnati many decades to come IF they are smart financially now.  Reds Owners said they took a beating on Covid no fans and no minor leagues 2020, and few fans in 2021 and 2022.  Take that Moose and Votto money and let it collect interest in the bank for a year or two. If Votto plays one more year here, it must be on the Lower Pay Option in his contract. The Reds must put keeping The Reds in Cincinnati above Joey Votto and any crazy notion to give him more money than he is under contract for in 2024.  If Votto chooses not to play for the lesser amount, that is fine also, that means one more young player can be kept on the roster.

I must add that if Votto plays one more year for Reds or not, certainly a Joey Votto Day is in Reds near future.  Also at some point in Reds Hall of Fame.  Probably a Statue. It is a good for Votto, but good financially for Reds also since such events bring sell out crowds.  This is The Pro's. Money is a factor and Reds admit they need Money.

The Castellinis really out to cut you a check, Kevin.  

You might be the only fan in the tri-state area who's more than happy to amplify they poor-mouthing that ownership indulges in on a yearly basis.

Most of us know it's all crap.  This team is owned by a local cabal of businessmen who utilize the team as a source of supplemental income.  They don't give a single iota of concern for keeping the team here.  If it would make them more money, they'd have sold it 10 years ago.  

I'll let you in on a little secret: the ownership makes a lot of money off of this team.  The money they cut from payroll goes directly into their pockets.  They talk about winning, but if winning means even a small percentage of decreased profit, then profit wins out all day.  Thy say their books are upside down, but they also don't have to show you their books.  It's a giant con by near-billionaires to tug at the heartstrings of the hard-working citizenry of Cincinnati.  It's an excuse for the organization to underperform annually and it's baked into the cake.  

The Castellinis are cheap.  Like 90's Mike Brown cheap.  They will say anything that gives them leeway to pinch a penny.  Re-locating is expensive.  You need a city to finance a stadium, because the family damn sure doesn't want to pay for it.  Then you have sizable relocation fees, etc.  This ain't Bob's and Phildo's jam.  They want other people's money and more accurately don't want to spend their cash reserves.  

Could they sell to another entity outside of Cincinnati?  I guess it's possible.  I would also think that if they coulda, they woulda.  Again, they are about money above all. 

I can only derive conclusions from what I see.  What I see is an ownership group talking about being poor and hinting at leaving to intimidate fans.  What I also see is them not leaving or even courting other cities even in their most desperate year in terms of finance (post covid).  As Marvin said, I see better than I hear and what I see is Bob and Phil crying poor while not acting to make more money at the end of a rainbow in a new city.  This tells me one thing:  They are absolutely making money here.  They are businesspeople.  If they weren't they'd do something different.  They just lie out their asses so they don't have to put money and effort into the team.  

It's a sweet deal for them.  Stay in cozy non-hostile Cincinnati.  Cry poor.  Pee on our legs and tell us it's raining.  Don't deal with the financial hardship of relocation.  Stack money by promoting the past.  Best part is, no transparency, so only the ownership has access to the fundamental point of the argument, ie how much they actually make vs public narrative.

Also, the league desires expansion to 32 teams.  Moving current teams to cities that are candidates for expansion is probably not conducive to that vision.  This is particularly true when the league understands that Cincinnati is perfectly capable of supporting a MLB team when the people owning it put in an actual effort.

(11-05-2023, 04:52 PM)samhain Wrote: The Castellinis really out to cut you a check, Kevin.  

You might be the only fan in the tri-state area who's more than happy to amplify they poor-mouthing that ownership indulges in on a yearly basis.

Most of us know it's all crap.  This team is owned by a local cabal of businessmen who utilize the team as a source of supplemental income.  They don't give a single iota of concern for keeping the team here.  If it would make them more money, they'd have sold it 10 years ago.  

I'll let you in on a little secret: the ownership makes a lot of money off of this team.  The money they cut from payroll goes directly into their pockets.  They talk about winning, but if winning means even a small percentage of decreased profit, then profit wins out all day.  Thy say their books are upside down, but they also don't have to show you their books.  It's a giant con by near-billionaires to tug at the heartstrings of the hard-working citizenry of Cincinnati.  It's an excuse for the organization to underperform annually and it's baked into the cake.  

Yep

I've heard it for years, decades. The best place to be in financially is 2nd place. Just on the cusp of being a winner. Doing just enough to get a good amount of peeps to ballpark and buy Reds stuff to earn a profit.

But not go all in on really trying to win. Getting the true top shelf pitching. Let me say if they do I'll be shocked!  And it's a shame because before you can blink an eye all this new young offensive talent will be Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Astros, Philles and so on.

Anyways: here's what I came on to post

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-nl-mvp-joey-votto-drawing-interest-from-al-team/ar-AA1jBGU9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ASTS&cvid=9c2fd0e088044e929307f648b29716c4&ei=13

It would be cool to see him hang up his cleats after a season back at home.