He had two key moments in that second half to score a TD and he didn't. He's one of the top WR in the league and can't blow catches like that. He's done this in the past during key moments and Ive given him a pass. He's gotta get his shit together and catch those passes in defining game moments like last night.

I know Im going to get hell for saying this, but I have no confidence whatsoever this team is going to win in the post season. They ALWAYS fall apart in key moments...always! Last night in overtime our defense let them go the length of the field and score and their defense smothered us.

If this team isn't the definition of Groundhog's Day, nothing is...

I agree. This is why all the Dalton criticism is unfair. You could argue that the "unclutchness" and "lack of performance in big moments" also extends to Marvin Lewis and A.J. Green. They have done just as much (or as little) to prove this right as Andy Dalton.

(12-29-2015, 01:24 PM)GodFather Wrote: He had two key moments in that second half to score a TD and he didn't. He's one of the top WR in the league and can't blow catches like that. He's done this in the past during key moments and Ive given him a pass. He's gotta get his shit together and catch those passes in defining game moments like last night.

I know Im going to get hell for saying this, but I have no confidence whatsoever this team is going to win in the post season. They ALWAYS fall apart in key moments...always! Last night in overtime our defense let them go the length of the field and score and their defense smothered us.

If this team isn't the definition of Groundhog's Day, nothing is...

First throw.. was broken up..   Second throw.. he should have kept running, not sure why he paused, would like to know if there was miscommunication issue or a mental mistake by him.

If they always fall apart in key moments, they would not have driven and tied it up...  

The problem with AJ Green is that he is great, he is not allowed to make mistakes, and we expect him to be great at all times. I don't consider Marvin Jones to be a scrub in comparison - and the quote that MJ had seems to almost always come true - "throw the ball up in the air, and homey go get it."  MJ is always going all out.

Since Andy got hurt, it looks like AJ is getting better separation for whatever reason.

I like McCarron's deep ball better than Andy's so far.

I honestly think had he not slowed up he would have caught that ball for a TD. He almost did with slowing up. Shame. Not sure why he slowed but I don't think he did it on purpose.

AJ had some pretty AMAZING catches last night. He did slow on the play in the end zone. Still not understanding that. But to say he's over rated.....I beg to differ. He is one hell of a receiver and we are lucky to have him on our team.

AJ GREEN consistenly blows it in big games and every year he is ALWAYS hurt.He cannot hold up for a full season.He is too frail and takes a beating.Yes ,he is a great receiver and I am happy we have the guy,but he plays down at times and takes plays off.He quit on that ball,he should have been in position to catch it.For him to admit that to just save face does not help us now.That would have been game for us.And Marvin Jones seems to struggle getting open.

I also blame the head coach and for sure Hue.In the second have he never make the necessary adjustments.And please someone fire Paul Alexander and get us a O_line coach.We need to draft a backup CENTER that will fight to start.Russell Bodine gets worn down as anyone would.He is a good one,but not a great one.I am so pissed they let this one get away.Our team needed a bye so so badly.Now I am really worried.Our men are beat up,worn down and starting a rookie qb.This is really bad.Next sunday I would be slinging it downfield 80 percent of the time and let our receivers go get it.The dirty birds flat out scare me.We are now under the pressure gun.

This goes back to the disagreement I had with fred. AJ Green is a very good WR....but not elite. Last night was a microcosm of why I say that. He will make the amazing toe tapping catches, but he will not make the contested ones. The one long ball to him dropped right in the basket. It was broken up because Green did not get his hands free and win the ball. I contend that Eifert would have made that catch all day long. He excels at the contested catches. That is why he is so dangerous in the red zone. And on the second one, Green quit on the route. That is an unforgivable sin IMO. Especially given the situation....3rd down and needing to score.

Dalton did catch alot of heat in previous years. But now we see that it wasnt always Andy's fault. These other guys need to step up too. Missed tackles and the D sucking wind were another huge factor in last nights loss. I will give Geno and Dunlap a pass for that...for obvious reasons....but the LBs DBs and other D linemen did not do their part to hold a 14 point lead on the road.

(12-29-2015, 01:42 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First throw.. was broken up..   Second throw.. he should have kept running, not sure why he paused, would like to know if there was miscommunication issue or a mental mistake by him.

If they always fall apart in key moments, they would not have driven and tied it up...  

He had that first throw and should've held on to it, hell in overtime I saw Denvers WR one hand a ball to continue the drive and win. If AJ caught any of those two passes we would've most likely won. 

(12-29-2015, 02:16 PM)Beaker Wrote: This goes back to the disagreement I had with fred. AJ Green is a very good WR....but not elite. Last night was a microcosm of why I say that. He will make the amazing toe tapping catches, but he will not make the contested ones. The one long ball to him dropped right in the basket. It was broken up because Green did not get his hands free and win the ball. I contend that Eifert would have made that catch all day long. He excels at the contested catches. That is why he is so dangerous in the red zone. And on the second one, Green quit on the route. That is an unforgivable sin IMO. Especially given the situation....3rd down and needing to score.

Dalton did catch alot of heat in previous years. But now we see that it wasnt always Andy's fault. These other guys need to step up too. Missed tackles and the D sucking wind were another huge factor in last nights loss. I will give Geno and Dunlap a pass for that...for obvious reasons....but the LBs DBs and other D linemen did not do their part to hold a 14 point lead on the road.

Yup....agreed on all points.  Dunlap and Atkins played their asses off.

(12-29-2015, 02:20 PM)GodFather Wrote: He had that first throw and should've held on to it, hell in overtime I saw Denvers WR one hand a ball to continue the drive and win. If AJ caught any of those two passes we would've most likely won. 

True that....but why were you giving Green a pass in the past?  Not being an ass, genuinely curious.  To me, if you're going to be called elite, you make nearly all of the plays and step up when it's needed the most.  I'm not sold Green fits that entire bill.  He's certainly very good, but elite?

1 WR in the history of the NFL has made the Pro Bowl in the first 5 years of their career.

Guess which "non-elite" WR that is. 

(12-29-2015, 02:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1 WR in the history of the NFL has made the Pro Bowl in the first 5 years of their career.

Guess which "non-elite" WR that is. 

A popularity contest does not make him elite. We all agree he is very good, that's what gets him to the Pro Bowl. But we need him to be elite and make contested catches and not quit on routes, that's what would help get him (and the Bengals) to the Super Bowl.

(12-29-2015, 02:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1 WR in the history of the NFL has made the Pro Bowl in the first 5 years of their career.

Guess which "non-elite" WR that is. 

So, our LT has only made two PBs but played at an All Pro level.  What's your point?  We all know he's popular and very good.....

(12-29-2015, 02:48 PM)Wyche Wrote: So, our LT has only made two PBs but played at an All Pro level.  What's your point?  We all know he's popular and very good.....

Point is: Maybe, just maybe, hometown fans are being a little critical (especially salty after a close loss).

Everytime AJ makes a mistake, there is a population that says "Look, told you he wasn't elite."

The guy caught more passes in the first 3 years of his career than any player in history.

He was the first rookie WR to get selected to the Pro Bowl since 2003

He has never had fewer than 1,000 yards, 65 catches, and 6 TDS any year in his career

He has some of the best hands of any of the similar type WRs

But you guys are probably right: dude is not elite, just very good and popular.

(12-29-2015, 02:47 PM)Beaker Wrote: A popularity contest does not make him elite. We all agree he is very good, that's what gets him to the Pro Bowl. But we need him to be elite and make contested catches and not quit on routes, that's what would help get him (and the Bengals) to the Super Bowl.

Got it. You guys go with the good and popular stance.

I'll go with AJ Green is, has been, and will be an elite NFL WR.

Let me ask this question. Does anyone thing that AJ Green would have made the catch that Thomas made for the broncos last night. Adam Jones had his arm pinned, and he caught the ball one handed for a first down to keep the drive alive on third down. I am not saying Thomas is elite, but those are the kinds of catches that AJ simply does not make. I think Eifert could and would, but not AJ. When he starts making those, he will truly be scary.

(12-29-2015, 02:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Point is: Maybe, just maybe, hometown fans are being a little critical (especially salty after a close loss).

 Everytime AJ makes a mistake, there is a population that says "Look, told you he wasn't elite."

The guy caught more passes in the first 3 years of his career than any player in history.

He was the first rookie WR to get selected to the Pro Bowl since 2003

He has never had fewer than 1,000 yards, 65 catches, and 6 TDS any year in his career

He has some of the best hands of any of the similar type WRs

But you guys are probably right: dude is not elite, just very good and popular.

Hometown fans are always a little critical....you haven't been critical of other players?

He is very good....has some aspects of his game that are elite....but not every facet, contested balls being the most critical.

New era, passing friendly league now, those stats don't compare with others before him.  

He does have very good hands, as long as no one is fighting him for the ball.

By your definition of elite, who is?

ODB gets shut down and suspended.
DT was not more impressive last night.
Calvin Didn't deserve to go to the pro bowl this year.

So elite is...Bryant and Julio?

Where's this imaginary demarcation line?

(12-29-2015, 03:19 PM)Beaker Wrote: Let me ask this question. Does anyone thing that AJ Green would have made the catch that Thomas made for the broncos last night. Adam Jones had his arm pinned, and he caught the ball one handed for a first down to keep the drive alive on third down. I am not saying Thomas is elite, but those are the kinds of catches that AJ simply does not make. I think Eifert could and would, but not AJ. When he starts making those, he will truly be scary.

https://youtu.be/pSOIZwwIpjM


https://youtu.be/KFvQtyt1498