(11-14-2023, 09:04 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Surely you're not trying to claim Mahomes has the weapons Burrow has?   Is everyone now going to claim Tee isnt a #1 elite WR?  That's all we have been hearing from some fans why Tee should be paid like a top 10 WR.  "Tee is great, Tee is one of the best in the NFL, Tee is top 10.  We should tag him and pay him 23 million" Now we dismiss Tee and downplay his ability?  The last couple of years various media outlets have recognized the Bengals as having one the top WRs group in the NFL if not the #1.  Burrow has a lot more talent around him than Mahomes.  and Chase vs Kelce isnt a wash.  Nobody is picking Kelce over Chase.  Nobody is paying Kelce what Chase will be paid.

As far as the offensive line, the Bengals went out an took Mahomes Pro Bowl RT from him and now Mahomes has Donovan Smith.  At RT Mahomes has Jawaan Taylor who isnt as good as Jonah Williams.  Both Brown and Williams have a higher PFF grade than Mahomes tackles so the Bengals have the advantage at tackles.  Mahomes has a higher rated inside line.  Burrow is QB of an offense stacked with talent yet Burrow pulls a disappearing act quite often.  The Bengals offense is "now you see it, now you dont"  Burrow needs to do a better job.  You want to paid like you are the top dog in the NFL? Play like it.

Burrow has more weapons barely and Mahomes a much better OL. Doesn’t matter if you can’t utilize those weapons. Like I said it’s a wash. Again the IOL for KC much better and RT a wash.

(11-13-2023, 10:02 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Let me start by saying this- I love Burrow and he is a top QB in this league. Probably already the best QB the Bengals have had. That’s being said, he is the highest paid QB in the NFL. I think he needs to take his game to another level. You started to see glimpses of it yesterday with their backs agains the wall, but it needs to happen all game long. As we saw yesterday we struggle to compete in shootouts. I feel like the last shootout we won was against the Chiefs in 2021 where Chase went off for 200 yards.

Now, I’m sure the offensive scheme likely contributes to some of the limitations, but I want to see our 250 mil QB play like a 250 mil QB. Our defense is not good enough consistently to just go long stretches and stall as an offense.

You are spot on and I was saying the exact same thing today. Burrow plays well when our TEAM plays well. The true great quarterbacks have a knack for elevating when their defense is having a bad day. They can win shootouts and they’re great when the game is coming to a close. I’m sorry but Burrow hasn’t really earned the clutch label. I’ve still yet to see him take us down the field in the final 2 min to win us a game. Sunday that SHOULD have happened if Boyd doesn’t choke, but we shouldn’t have been in that situation. If Burrow doesn’t throw those picks we wouldn’t have been. Hes the highest paid player in this league and he has to prove he can will us to victories when the rest of the team has an off day. This is the cold hard truth and I’m sure most of u will glaze over it with excuses. At this point Burrow should never be mentioned in the same breath as Mahomes again, until something changes.

(11-14-2023, 06:42 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: If Bengals management is going to keep letting good defensive players leave so they can use that money to pay the guys on offense, the offense needs to carry the team instead of Lou's defense from now on.  You see what not having Bates and Bell and Apple has done to the secondary.  Those guys in the secondary look like they have no clue.  And Lou also lost Ogunjobi before last season.  When you keep losing talent from the defense like that, you just arent going to be as good.   Lou didnt suddenly become a bad DC.  He just doesnt have the same talent now and that is because the Bengals have decided to spend the money on the offensive players so the offense needs to step up.  Boyd needs to make that TD catch.  Burrow needs to stop throwing 2 interceptions in the 4th.  The Oline needs to block better.  If the offense is where the Bengals are spending the money, the offense needs to get carry the team and get it done.

Cannot argue this. They've proven that is their cap strategy. The big money boys gotta carry the day more times than not.

(11-14-2023, 10:15 PM)ClarkHarris4Prez Wrote: You are spot on and I was saying the exact same thing today. Burrow plays well when our TEAM plays well. The true great quarterbacks have a knack for elevating when their defense is having a bad day. They can win shootouts and they’re great when the game is coming to a close. I’m sorry but Burrow hasn’t really earned the clutch label. I’ve still yet to see him take us down the field in the final 2 min to win us a game.Sunday that SHOULD have happened if Boyd doesn’t choke, but we shouldn’t have been in that situation. If Burrow doesn’t throw those picks we wouldn’t have been. Hes the highest paid player in this league and he has to prove he can will us to victories when the rest of the team has an off day. This is the cold hard truth and I’m sure most of u will glaze over it with excuses. At this point Burrow should never be mentioned in the same breath as Mahomes again, until something changes.

WTH? KC twice in 21-22. Tenn in 22. He’s done it a ton.

(11-14-2023, 06:51 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We lost 2 starters and Apple.

Letting Apple go was a no brainer.

Letting Bates go at his asking price with Dax in the building was a no brainer.

Bell was the one that caught them by surprise and he took a different deal.  $9M more Bell next season doesnt really work for us.  If Scott didnt suck so bad and Battle were not so slow this wouldnt be an issue either.

That said I agree the offense has not been good enough and needs to be much better.

There'll be some growing pains with the youngsters. Turner is already flashing a little. Dax is playing good, CTB is growing into a fine CB. He's right though, they're going young on defense to manage the cap to pay the offense. If you're gonna do that (seems like at least a decent strategy at this point), the big money boys need to be carrying them more. At least they need to complement them. 

Scott was the cheaper option and Battle hasn't shown anything yet, absolutely agree. 

The Bengals have spent a ton of money on their DL, and just re-signed both starting LB’s this past offseason. This notion that they’re skimping on the defense is nonsense.

people always tip toe around the main issue. When elite qb's have a sub par day, the running game can be used to bail the team out.

Burrow has never had a competent run game here. And when you take away Higgins, Chase is hurting, Boyd drops touchdown passes, and your defense isnt on their A game, you're gonna lose.

KC's defense and run game has bailed a bad Mahomes out plenty of times. And I have witnessed Burrow bail out this defense plenty

(11-14-2023, 10:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: The Bengals have spent a ton of money on their DL, and just re-signed both starting LB’s this past offseason. This notion that they’re skimping on the defense is nonsense.

They're not skimping at all. They're investing high draft picks in the secondary and saving money. It's paying off too. We used to be cheaper on offense when they inked deals on the D. Now we're paying FA olinemen because we can't groom our own, Burrow just signed for a ton, JaMarr will. They're just offsetting future costs until those guys in the secondary come off their rookie deals. They need Murphy to pan out too. 

(11-14-2023, 10:37 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: They're not skimping at all. They're investing high draft picks in the secondary and saving money. It's paying off too. We used to be cheaper on offense when they inked deals on the D. Now we're paying FA olinemen because we can't groom our own, Burrow just signed for a ton, JaMarr will. They're just offsetting future costs until those guys in the secondary come off their rookie deals. They need Murphy to pan out too. 

Right, it’s just crazy to me seeing people cry about not paying every single player on the defense. No team can do that. No matter what their QB is making.

But our starting DL is making;

Hendrickson - $21 million
Reader - $13.2 million
Hubbard - $10 million
Hill - $10 million

They’ve invested plenty on that side of the ball.

(11-14-2023, 10:37 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: people always tip toe around the main issue. When elite qb's have a sub par day, the running game can be used to bail the team out.

Burrow has never had a competent run game here. And when you take away Higgins, Chase is hurting, Boyd drops touchdown passes, and your defense isnt on their A game, you're gonna lose.

KC's defense and run game has bailed a bad Mahomes out plenty of times. And I have witnessed Burrow bail out this defense plenty

Thank you

(11-14-2023, 10:37 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: people always tip toe around the main issue. When elite qb's have a sub par day, the running game can be used to bail the team out.

Burrow has never had a competent run game here. And when you take away Higgins, Chase is hurting, Boyd drops touchdown passes, and your defense isnt on their A game, you're gonna lose.

KC's defense and run game has bailed a bad Mahomes out plenty of times. And I have witnessed Burrow bail out this defense plenty

I only buy that excuse when you actually run the ball and are ineffective,  Mixon touched ball 11 times for 4.2 so he was fine, we lost game on INTs and a drop

(11-15-2023, 01:25 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: I only buy that excuse when you actually run the ball and are ineffective,  Mixon touched ball 11 times for 4.2 so he was fine, we lost game on INTs and a drop

And you know…giving up 544 total yards on defense.

(11-15-2023, 01:37 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: And you know…giving up 544 total yards on defense.

Going 6 drives, 2 quarters, 5 punts and 32 yards on offense didn’t help the matter.

(11-14-2023, 10:58 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Right, it’s just crazy to me seeing people cry about not paying every single player on the defense. No team can do that. No matter what their QB is making.

But our starting DL is making;

Hendrickson - $21 million
Reader - $13.2 million
Hubbard - $10 million
Hill - $10 million

They’ve invested plenty on that side of the ball.

Absolutely. When Burrow was on a cheap deal, and we didn't have other extensions looming, they were getting guys like Reader, Bell, tagging Bates, Awuzie, etc. Getting Wilson and Pratt extended was a good move and didn't break the bank. I like where they're headed, they need some young dlinemen to step up and pan out for it to really succeed. Getting olineman that produce in the draft should be next. They gotta hit on them though.

(11-15-2023, 09:34 AM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Going 6 drives, 2 quarters, 5 punts and 32 yards on offense didn’t help the matter.

Yep. They need to stop getting so conservative in the middle of games. It leads to too many lulls for the offense. They usually look good to start the game, and then again when they have to start pushing the ball down the field, but not so much in between. I’d like to see them stay aggressive. You have Burrow and Chase for a reason. Idc what the coverage is. You have to at least take your shots.

(11-15-2023, 11:28 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. They need to stop getting so conservative in the middle of games. It leads to too many lulls for the offense. They usually look good to start the game, and then again when they have to start pushing the ball down the field, but not so much in between. I’d like to see them stay aggressive. You have Burrow and Chase for a reason. Idc what the coverage is. You have to at least take your shots.

Agree, pedal to the metal.

(11-15-2023, 11:28 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. They need to stop getting so conservative in the middle of games. It leads to too many lulls for the offense. They usually look good to start the game, and then again when they have to start pushing the ball down the field, but not so much in between. I’d like to see them stay aggressive. You have Burrow and Chase for a reason. Idc what the coverage is. You have to at least take your shots.

Agreed. I want to see the offense look like the end of Texans game. Even if it results in a pick early. Be aggressive take those shots. You can’t win games consistently with 11/13 plays drives. Leaves no room for error.

(11-14-2023, 07:24 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I have not once ONLY blamed Burrow.

You said BURROW is 3-16 when the opposing team scores more than 24 points. Sounds a lot like you're blaming Burrow for being 3-16 and not the defense who gave up 24 or more points.

(11-14-2023, 07:24 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: I’m just going to say this one more time. When the Eagles have 3 wins when their defense gives up more than 24 points this season, Mahomes had 5 wins last year and Stroud has 2 in the last 2 games- blaming it more on the defense and ignoring that you have a 250 millions QB who absolutely CANT win shootouts is a problem.

Body doesn't drop the TD and the Texans drive down the field and get the winning TD and still win the game. According to you, that's Burrow's fault for losing the game.

(11-14-2023, 07:29 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: Nice way to skirt around the OP. 

If I wanted to reply to the OP, I'd reply to the OP. I only replied originally because you were trying to make Burrow look worse by taking away a great play he made.

(11-14-2023, 07:29 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You consistently said that I am only blaming Burrow

False. I consistently said that you are only blaming Burrow FOR BEING 3-16 WHEN THE OPPOSING TEAM SCORES 24 OR MORE POINTS. I even pointed out how in many of those games (including the Texans game) the offense could've done more to win the game. 

(11-14-2023, 07:29 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You consistently said that I am only blaming Burrow, which Implies Burrow should not be blamed

Right. There's only 2 options: either Burrow is solely to blame or he is completely blameless.

(11-14-2023, 07:29 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: only to prove yourself wrong.

I have not been proven wrong yet; not by you OR me.

(11-14-2023, 10:26 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: WTH? KC twice in 21-22. Tenn in 22. He’s done it a ton.

Technically did it this past Sunday against Houston, too but I guess it's Burrow's fault Boyd dropped the TD.