(11-20-2023, 01:50 AM)casear2727 Wrote: You know I'd love to disagree with you, but you are correct in this assessment.  I think we will see how much Burrow has covered up the inadequacies of personnel and operation.

This subject deserves its own thread.

(11-20-2023, 08:39 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This subject deserves its own thread.

It has one, doesn’t it?

http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-If-Burrow-is-out-Zac-will-be-exposed

(11-19-2023, 01:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There is no need to have a divide amongst us regarding those that want to win some games and those that are ok with losing out.

I can’t speak for all of us ok with losing the rest of the games, but I can assure you that my thought process has zero to do with any indictment on Zac Taylor as some have suggested.  My outlook is 100% common sense to me.

We were not a great team with Burrow this year, the Wild Card would be difficult to attain having no tie breakers other than Buffalo.  Without Burrow we likely will not be close to being in contention.

The schedule next season is one reason why losing out can be beneficial.

Losing out offers a 4th Round schedule – we know how close the #1 & #2 seeding can be, a single loss could be the difference.  Playing the Giants instead of the Eagles could be a deciding factor.

The draft is the most important benefit of losing out. Assuming we are NOT in contention, any wins could be damaging for years to come.  One more win in 2019 and we likely do not have Burrow.

Some of have argued the draft is a “crapshoot”, which is true overall, but the higher teams draft the more likely they obtain a quality player.

Some have argued that we are not good at drafting, which is true – especially for the trenches, but we do better drafting much higher in each round.


We are currently slated to draft 18th.  We could easily jump 9 spots and possibly 11 to the #7 pick.  


Losing out puts us in contention for major impact players for the next 5 years:

The #1 TE,  Brock Boward, is he a game changer?  Do we have a hole at TE?
The #1 DT, Jer’Zhan Newton, would interior pass rush help? Do we need a Reader replacement?
The #2 WR, is Tee leaving?
A Top 5 OT, we are likely losing Jonah.


It is not just the 1st Rounders, it’s all the way down the draft.  Tee Higgins & Logan Wilson instead of Jackson Carman and Zach Carter.


Teams we could leapfrog in the draft:

Saints
Falcons
Bucs
Colts
Broncos
Chargers
Raiders
Bills
Commanders
Packers
Rams


I do appreciate those that want to win as much as possible, but this season could be the catalyst for a great run next year.  Losing Joe to the ACL was horrendous, but we got Chase and went to the Super Bowl.

Yes, there is a reason to have a divide between Bengals Fans who want to see the Bengals Win, and you people that always want the Bengals to finish last because you love the draft so much.  This garbage of wanting the Bengals to Tank and lose rest of games is weak. 

Also for those who get mad if I make more than a 2 sentence post, I use the OP's post as an example of the marathon posts the rest of you make and adore. 

GO BENGALS and BEAT STEELERS. 

(11-20-2023, 09:47 AM)kevin Wrote: Yes, there is a reason to have a divide between Bengals Fans who want to see the Bengals Win, and you people that always want the Bengals to finish last because you love the draft so much.  This garbage of wanting the Bengals to Tank and lose rest of games is weak. 

Also for those who get mad if I make more than a 2 sentence post, I use this as an example of the marathon posts the rest of you make and adore. 

GO BENGALS and BEAT STEELERS. 

So self righteous against draftniks. Some us like College Football and the Draft it has nothing to do with how the Bengals are doing. I mean some of us watch football all year and some of us move onto their Fantasy Baseball teams.

Outcome: Couch Taylor does his best, the players on the field play hard, and the team loses more games than they win. It's not the pick I'm hoping for, but come the 2024 draft enter Keon Coleman, WR as he Bengals pick to replace TB and Tee.

(11-19-2023, 01:41 PM)casear2727 Wrote: There is no need to have a divide amongst us regarding those that want to win some games and those that are ok with losing out.

I can’t speak for all of us ok with losing the rest of the games, but I can assure you that my thought process has zero to do with any indictment on Zac Taylor as some have suggested.  My outlook is 100% common sense to me.

We were not a great team with Burrow this year, the Wild Card would be difficult to attain having no tie breakers other than Buffalo.  Without Burrow we likely will not be close to being in contention.

The schedule next season is one reason why losing out can be beneficial.

Losing out offers a 4th Round schedule – we know how close the #1 & #2 seeding can be, a single loss could be the difference.  Playing the Giants instead of the Eagles could be a deciding factor.

The draft is the most important benefit of losing out. Assuming we are NOT in contention, any wins could be damaging for years to come.  One more win in 2019 and we likely do not have Burrow.

Some of have argued the draft is a “crapshoot”, which is true overall, but the higher teams draft the more likely they obtain a quality player.

Some have argued that we are not good at drafting, which is true – especially for the trenches, but we do better drafting much higher in each round.


We are currently slated to draft 18th.  We could easily jump 9 spots and possibly 11 to the #7 pick.  


Losing out puts us in contention for major impact players for the next 5 years:

The #1 TE,  Brock Boward, is he a game changer?  Do we have a hole at TE?
The #1 DT, Jer’Zhan Newton, would interior pass rush help? Do we need a Reader replacement?
The #2 WR, is Tee leaving?
A Top 5 OT, we are likely losing Jonah.


It is not just the 1st Rounders, it’s all the way down the draft.  Tee Higgins & Logan Wilson instead of Jackson Carman and Zach Carter.


Teams we could leapfrog in the draft:

Saints
Falcons
Bucs
Colts
Broncos
Chargers
Raiders
Bills
Commanders
Packers
Rams


I do appreciate those that want to win as much as possible, but this season could be the catalyst for a great run next year.  Losing Joe to the ACL was horrendous, but we got Chase and went to the Super Bowl.

Very good post, and I am for getting reps for the young players from here on out. That will likely result in losses due to experience level. On the flip, I don't think you completely shut down the stars yet either. Give Browning a shot to win one or two to boost his confidence. In other words, just beat the Stoolers, lol. 

(11-20-2023, 10:12 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Outcome: Couch Taylor does his best, the players on the field play hard, and the team loses more games than they win. It's not the pick I'm hoping for, but come the 2024 enter Keon Coleman, WR as he Bengals pick to replace TB and Tee.

As a big FSU fan, I'd love to see that! 

(11-20-2023, 11:09 AM)Wyche Wrote: As a big FSU fan, I'd love to see that! 

I like his talent but I'm hoping the 1st round pick is an OL. I just think it's going to be a WR.

(11-20-2023, 11:17 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I like his talent but I'm hoping the 1st round pick is an OL. I just think it's going to be a WR.

I can't disagree with you there, but Coleman plays similar to Tee. If they can't get a deal worked out with him, Keon would be a good replacement, and maybe you can get OL in FA with the dollars.

(11-20-2023, 11:40 AM)Wyche Wrote: I can't disagree with you there, but Coleman plays similar to Tee. If they can't get a deal worked out with him, Keon would be a good replacement, and maybe you can get OL in FA with the dollars.

His style being similar to Tee is why I'm locking in on him as the 1st round pick in 2024. 

(11-20-2023, 10:12 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Outcome: Couch Taylor does his best, the players on the field play hard, and the team loses more games than they win. It's not the pick I'm hoping for, but come the 2024 draft enter Keon Coleman, WR as he Bengals pick to replace TB and Tee.

Rome Odunze reminds me of Tee Higgins not the most explosive guy but physical, good route runner, catches the ball away from his frame with strong hands. The Utah is a fun game to watch if you're checking out Odunze. The Utah corners were draped all over him the entire game hanging off his jersey lol. It was his worst game reception wise on the season with 3 for 111 yards and 2 TDs. 


Then of course you have Xavier Legette. He might be a little shorter (maybe just shy of 6'3) but you can see where the AJ Brown comps are coming from.

(11-19-2023, 06:59 PM)Synric Wrote: I wouldn't go far as to saying they need to tank but I would like to see some Charlie Jones in the slot, Murphy and Ossai since Hendrickson and Hubbard are beat up, let Battle get those post safety reps they have been giving to Nick Scott, DJ Turners should take over as the starter.

I think this is closer to where I'm at.   I also am tempted by the benefits of a higher pick - a good 3T, Improved interior OL, better depth at OT (hopefully keeping Jonah), scary TE, a WR who is scary fast.

But most important we need to become a better, deeper team.  I love the way the Ravens and Steelers roll.  They never tank.  They are always working as hard as possible to improve their performance - not just their roster.  But they do the latter (especially the Ravens) by trading down, picking up more picks (usually focusing on OL or the defensive front 7) with strategic free agents (Roquan Smith).

They maximize their picks, but never stop playing as hard as possible and bringing forward the back of their roster.  The Ravens all but beat us in the first round of the playoff round last year without their marquis QB.  That's a deep team with a winning culture.

I think that has to be our primary goal.  Bring the new kids along in an organized way - and not doing that pre-season thing where they put in all the new players vying for the roster all at once.  But lets get Murphy and Battle more reps and see if they are going to pan out, and get a look at Ivey and see what he has.   And try some new wrinkles in the game plan.   See if Evans can play an entire game without messing up.

I'm not a tank guy.   Let's act like a playoff team that builds from within and makes strategic moves when they are available.  Good teams like SF, KC, , Philly, Baltimore and Pittsburgh do.

If we get high draft picks take full advantage

While tanking may obtain better draft picks for a team it turns off potential free agents. No veteran wants to come to a lousy team.

(11-20-2023, 12:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: While tanking may obtain better draft picks for a team it turns off potential free agents.  No veteran wants to come to a lousy team.

Or more importantly: A team who throws in the towel when a starter goes down. 

(11-20-2023, 09:47 AM)kevin Wrote: Yes, there is a reason to have a divide between Bengals Fans who want to see the Bengals Win, and you people that always want the Bengals to finish last because you love the draft so much.  This garbage of wanting the Bengals to Tank and lose rest of games is weak. 

Also for those who get mad if I make more than a 2 sentence post, I use the OP's post as an example of the marathon posts the rest of you make and adore. 

GO BENGALS and BEAT STEELERS. 

I have said repeatedly that i will not root against the Bengals whatsoever. But you missed that. You missed the entire premise of my comment, not surprising.   

I have said repeatedly I do not want the team to tank, but to play hard, get young guy reps and I'm fine with them losing games as that may be the best result for the next few seasons.  

I've owned 2 sets of season tickets for a long time.  I'd rather not watch them lose any games.  But you go ahead and project about me, but again you will be wrong.
 
Use my post however you want, but know this, no one cares about the length of your posts it is the senseless drivel and inaccurate content that justifies the eye-rolls.  

(11-20-2023, 01:18 AM)Synric Wrote: Watching Samaje Perine check release go 4 for 40 yards  then pick up the DB Blitz on the Sutton TD in the 2 minute drill to put the Broncos up on the Vikings by 1 with a minute left is ugh.

He was awesome last night.   I really wanted us to do what was necessary to keep Bell and Perine.   Battle would have had some amazing training this year Perine is the ultimate backfield professional.


SO ugh

(11-20-2023, 12:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: While tanking may obtain better draft picks for a team it turns off potential free agents.  No veteran wants to come to a lousy team.

Jessie Bates went to the Falcons
Vonn Bell and Hayden Hurst went to the Panthers
Samaje Perine went to the Broncos

Just saying...

(11-20-2023, 12:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: While tanking may obtain better draft picks for a team it turns off potential free agents.  No veteran wants to come to a lousy team.

I want the Bengals to win, but Vonn Bell went to the Carolina Panthers, who have only 1 win this season. Why such a lousy team as the Panthers wanted to pay so much guaranteed money to Vonn Bell is another question. Did they think they would be competitive?

Getting Chase Brown some 3rd down back reps... Throw him into the fire and say go pass block.

(11-20-2023, 12:14 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: While tanking may obtain better draft picks for a team it turns off potential free agents.  No veteran wants to come to a lousy team.

(11-20-2023, 12:16 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Or more importantly: A team who throws in the towel when a starter goes down. 

I do not think for a second that the coaches or players will tank or throw in the towel.  Many of us, at least me, are referring to the mindset of the fanbase.  I'm not going to be as critical and frustrated over losses moving forward as they could end up being positive in the long run.

I absolutely disagree with the free agency take and believe the exact opposite.  Professional players comprehend this situation much better than us, they understand that we are dead in the water, they know we are different team with Burrow.  Why would they NOT want to come with better draft picks and easier schedule to the Super Bowl?

Also, every single one of our good free agents that left went to crap teams this year.