(12-30-2015, 06:35 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: So in numerous threads I have discussed many qualities in his game that I am not a fan. Gone over certain plays. Been very critical.

Sure, I'm being critical on a guy who's playing his 2nd ever game. But here's why I'm being extremely critical of him.

We have a small window right now.

This is the most talented team we've had since the Super Bow teams. Everyone is playing very well. We have players setting records. We were off to a 10-2 start with a healthy quarterback. But now we're 11-4 and have a chance to start our first playoff game with our backup quarterback.

After this year, we are losing players. Both to age and contracts expiring. We have 17 players that are going to be free agents.

Adam Jones. Leon Hall. Reggie Nelson. George Iloka. Marvin Jones. Mohamed Sanu. Andre Smith. Wallace Gilberry. Vinny Rey. Emmanuel Lamur.

That's numerous starters and key rotational players. 6 of those free agents are 30 or older.

We are very privileged as fans to go to the playoffs 5 years in a row. That's tough for ANY team to do.

We're almost spoiled as Bengals fans with the quarterback situation lately. We went from Palmer to Dalton. We went from new success to continuous success. We finally reached our potential.

That's why I'm critical on McCarron. People talk about the moments not being too big for him. He needs to prove it. He needs to do well in big time NFL situations. He lost his last SEC Championship game and the next bowl game. He lost to a very daunting defense in the Broncos and struggled against zone read.

"Oh he just needs experience". He has ONE game left to fully get that experience or else this will be like the 2005 season. One big WHAT IF situation. We need a playoff BYE week.

The ironic thing I find about this is that it's a post about McCarron.....but actually has very little to do with McCarron.

Maccaron isn't as good as Andy 100% fact but I have been somewhat impressed by him. He won his first game as a starter and he played well against the #1 defense at their place. We would be better off with Andy but that's not AJs fault.

(12-30-2015, 06:35 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: So in numerous threads I have discussed many qualities in his game that I am not a fan. Gone over certain plays. Been very critical.

Sure, I'm being critical on a guy who's playing his 2nd ever game. But here's why I'm being extremely critical of him.

We have a small window right now.

This is the most talented team we've had since the Super Bow teams. Everyone is playing very well. We have players setting records. We were off to a 10-2 start with a healthy quarterback. But now we're 11-4 and have a chance to start our first playoff game with our backup quarterback.

After this year, we are losing players. Both to age and contracts expiring. We have 17 players that are going to be free agents.

Adam Jones. Leon Hall. Reggie Nelson. George Iloka. Marvin Jones. Mohamed Sanu. Andre Smith. Wallace Gilberry. Vinny Rey. Emmanuel Lamur.

That's numerous starters and key rotational players. 6 of those free agents are 30 or older.

We are very privileged as fans to go to the playoffs 5 years in a row. That's tough for ANY team to do.

We're almost spoiled as Bengals fans with the quarterback situation lately. We went from Palmer to Dalton. We went from new success to continuous success. We finally reached our potential.

That's why I'm critical on McCarron. People talk about the moments not being too big for him. He needs to prove it. He needs to do well in big time NFL situations. He lost his last SEC Championship game and the next bowl game. He lost to a very daunting defense in the Broncos and struggled against zone read.

"Oh he just needs experience". He has ONE game left to fully get that experience or else this will be like the 2005 season. One big WHAT IF situation. We need a playoff BYE week.

We have plenty of cap space available next year to sign all those guys if we want them back.  The window isn't closing.

(12-30-2015, 11:50 PM)J24 Wrote: Maccaron isn't as good as Andy 100% fact but I have been somewhat impressed by him. He won his first game as a starter and he played well against the #1 defense at their place. We would be better off with Andy but that's not AJs fault.

Whoomp there it is 

(12-30-2015, 07:55 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I should be critical of a team that forced a turnover at a crucial time in their territory? Critical of a defense that allowed only 17 points during regulation? One that has it's best defensive player struggling with a sickle cell trait? A defense that isn't used to such altitude? A defense that outside of one run locked down the Broncos run game? A defense that sacked the QB 3 times with an additional 4 QB hurries?

The defense didn't lose us this game. The offense did. They lead the league in points allowed with 17. They did exactly that in regulation. Gave up a field goal, but stopped the Broncos from getting a TD in overtime.

Offense lost the game, not the defense. To believe otherwise is ludicrous.

If you sack the QB 3 times, get 4 more hurries, recover a fumble, and hold the opposing offense to 17 points, you should have an offense that can win that game. We have the talent to beat that defense. We didn't execute. That falls on everyone on offense. Including McCarron.

All you did was make excuses for the defense. They folded against a Denver offense that hadn't scored in the second half in three previous games.  Coming from halftime they gave up a TD drive so don't give me this altitude excuse BS.  

Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Phillip Rivers, and Matthew Stafford...


All QBs that lost to Denver's number 1 defense.  Guess those guys are all quality backups as well.  

Just quit hating on this kid who just lost his first NFL game in his second start against a very loaded defense.  Not to mention just about every excuse you gave, the same can be said about McCarron.  They played in the same damn stadium.  Give it a ***** rest already.

(12-30-2015, 06:35 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: So in numerous threads I have discussed many qualities in his game that I am not a fan. Gone over certain plays. Been very critical.

Sure, I'm being critical on a guy who's playing his 2nd ever game. But here's why I'm being extremely critical of him.

We have a small window right now.

This is the most talented team we've had since the Super Bow teams. Everyone is playing very well. We have players setting records. We were off to a 10-2 start with a healthy quarterback. But now we're 11-4 and have a chance to start our first playoff game with our backup quarterback.

After this year, we are losing players. Both to age and contracts expiring. We have 17 players that are going to be free agents.

Adam Jones. Leon Hall. Reggie Nelson. George Iloka. Marvin Jones. Mohamed Sanu. Andre Smith. Wallace Gilberry. Vinny Rey. Emmanuel Lamur.

That's numerous starters and key rotational players. 6 of those free agents are 30 or older.

We are very privileged as fans to go to the playoffs 5 years in a row. That's tough for ANY team to do.

We're almost spoiled as Bengals fans with the quarterback situation lately. We went from Palmer to Dalton. We went from new success to continuous success. We finally reached our potential.

That's why I'm critical on McCarron. People talk about the moments not being too big for him. He needs to prove it. He needs to do well in big time NFL situations. He lost his last SEC Championship game and the next bowl game. He lost to a very daunting defense in the Broncos and struggled against zone read.

"Oh he just needs experience". He has ONE game left to fully get that experience or else this will be like the 2005 season. One big WHAT IF situation. We need a playoff BYE week.

I agree that there's a window and this team's talent could start to spread to the wind a bit.

BUT NONE OF WHAT YOU ARE CRITICIZING WAS MCCARRON'S DOING.

I hardly feel spoiled with Dalton at QB. Guy has folded under the lights with regularity and is 1-2 in that situation this year.

May I suggest you direct your ire toward the front office or the Marv who knew very well this situation could easily arrive.

(12-30-2015, 08:42 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Meant to put 11-4. Used to posting 11-5. Thanks for noticing my mistake.

What catches did they need to make? One can talk about the contested catch deep down the field to Green. But that's about it. Receivers bailed him out with some amazing catches on the chalk early in the game too.

I've seen this posted a few times and i have to disagree with it. The only pass on the sideline that could be considered 'bailing a QB out' would be one pass that Jones had to overextend for. All the others were placed where only the receiver could get it comfortably. 

(12-30-2015, 08:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What catches?  All of them that were within their catch radius.    I'm not going to hammer any particular players, but I seem to remember at least 3 very catchable balls in the 2nd half that resulted in non-catches, and killed momentum when we could have potentially put the Broncos away.

I couldn't care less about what type of coverage a defense was in or not in, the deep pass that AJ slowed up early on--if he's running the whole time--that's a TD. The contested catch down the middle that was broken up, if he gets his arms extended, it's a catch. All appearance aside, i'm not bashing AJ, just pointing out a fact.

A couple one-on-one broken tackles by a couple other players would have helped as well. 

(12-31-2015, 02:48 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I've seen this posted a few times and i have to disagree with it. The only pass on the sideline that could be considered 'bailing a QB out' would be one pass that Jones had to overextend for. All the others were placed where only the receiver could get it comfortably. 

Agreed.  I felt McCarron actually threw the ball very very well.  

(12-30-2015, 09:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: If that's what you got from it....welp

This Thread look at this.........  We are seriously screwed as fans..........    with this Andy and AJ CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If all people are seeing is Dalton-McCarron comparisons, you're missing a lot.

Dalton is the better QB of the 2, hands down. That's not saying McCarron isn't doing a good job. That's just saying McCarron is a backup and plays like a backup. Some people are already stating that the team should trade Dalton and roll with McCarron. AJ has shown potential, but he hasn't shown anything close to what he would need to do to supplant the current starter. Some fans are just so happy that he's not Dalton that they want to find any excuse to move on from Andy.

Another thing is how people would say you can't use college stats to make an argument for Dalton. His college record showed he won games. So college wins don't matter. Now that McCarron is under center, everyone wants to point to his National Titles and proclaim how that makes him a winner. They mean nothing in the NFL.

The final thing is that the Bengals have a very good starting QB. Unfortunately, fan nitpick him to hell and back. They make up excuses as for why he's not good, when he's actually quite good. When you use stats or anything to back it up, they instantly talk about how the league has changed and his stats are irrelevant. Fans do whatever they can to try and find ways to discredit Dalton and his accomplishments. McCarron steps in and everyone just starts fawning over him. If fans treated Andy like they do AJ, they'd be much happier fans.

(12-30-2015, 09:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm a Dalton fan, and that doesn't make me critical of McCarron.  In fact, I pull for McCarron, in hopes that he doesn't ruin the season that Andy has led us to.

Now, I will say that if Andy hadn't gotten injured on that 1st drive, I feel like we would have beaten Pittsburgh in a close game, would have destroyed SF so badly that AJ McCarron likely would have played the entire 2nd half, and Andy most definitely would have won that game on Monday Night.

Not to mention Dalton got ripped to shreds for his second season.  Hell....he got ripped his first year and we made the damn playoffs after that off-season debacle !

(12-31-2015, 07:33 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: If all people are seeing is Dalton-McCarron comparisons, you're missing a lot.

Dalton is the better QB of the 2, hands down. That's not saying McCarron isn't doing a good job. That's just saying McCarron is a backup and plays like a backup. Some people are already stating that the team should trade Dalton and roll with McCarron. AJ has shown potential, but he hasn't shown anything close to what he would need to do to supplant the current starter. Some fans are just so happy that he's not Dalton that they want to find any excuse to move on from Andy.

Another thing is how people would say you can't use college stats to make an argument for Dalton. His college record showed he won games. So college wins don't matter. Now that McCarron is under center, everyone wants to point to his National Titles and proclaim how that makes him a winner. They mean nothing in the NFL.

The final thing is that the Bengals have a very good starting QB. Unfortunately, fan nitpick him to hell and back. They make up excuses as for why he's not good, when he's actually quite good. When you use stats or anything to back it up, they instantly talk about how the league has changed and his stats are irrelevant. Fans do whatever they can to try and find ways to discredit Dalton and his accomplishments. McCarron steps in and everyone just starts fawning over him. If fans treated Andy like they do AJ, they'd be much happier fans.

That's the gist of it.....

(12-31-2015, 07:33 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: If all people are seeing is Dalton-McCarron comparisons, you're missing a lot.

Dalton is the better QB of the 2, hands down. That's not saying McCarron isn't doing a good job. That's just saying McCarron is a backup and plays like a backup. Some people are already stating that the team should trade Dalton and roll with McCarron. AJ has shown potential, but he hasn't shown anything close to what he would need to do to supplant the current starter. Some fans are just so happy that he's not Dalton that they want to find any excuse to move on from Andy.

Another thing is how people would say you can't use college stats to make an argument for Dalton. His college record showed he won games. So college wins don't matter. Now that McCarron is under center, everyone wants to point to his National Titles and proclaim how that makes him a winner. They mean nothing in the NFL.

The final thing is that the Bengals have a very good starting QB. Unfortunately, fan nitpick him to hell and back. They make up excuses as for why he's not good, when he's actually quite good. When you use stats or anything to back it up, they instantly talk about how the league has changed and his stats are irrelevant. Fans do whatever they can to try and find ways to discredit Dalton and his accomplishments. McCarron steps in and everyone just starts fawning over him. If fans treated Andy like they do AJ, they'd be much happier fans.

This couldn't have been said better. Anyone that cannot see that this is exactly the way it is, is blinded. Blinded by their love for a player, hate for a player, or both. 

(12-31-2015, 10:13 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: This couldn't have been said better. Anyone that cannot see that this is exactly the way it is, is blinded. Blinded by their love for a player, hate for a player, or both. 

I can say it better. Most fans are stupid. This is a me first, instant gratification society.

(12-30-2015, 08:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What catches?  All of them that were within their catch radius.    I'm not going to hammer any particular players, but I seem to remember at least 3 very catchable balls in the 2nd half that resulted in non-catches, and killed momentum when we could have potentially put the Broncos away.

I can think of 3 as well.

Deep pass to AJ where he allowed it to just come to his basket.

Although it was a low throw, Marvin Jones extended and had to slide. Had a hand on it though.

Tyler Kroft dropped a 3rd down pass. Although unsure if that would have been a 1st down.

(12-31-2015, 11:27 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: I can think of 3 as well.

Deep pass to AJ where he allowed it to just come to his basket.

Although it was a low throw, Marvin Jones extended and had to slide. Had a hand on it though.

Tyler Kroft dropped a 3rd down pass. Although unsure if that would have been a 1st down.

If he isn't going to play perfectly he just just retire. Freaking throws the receiver must make a good/great catch, how dare he!

(12-30-2015, 11:59 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: We have plenty of cap space available next year to sign all those guys if we want them back.  The window isn't closing.

Doesn't mean they'll sign back. Doesn't mean they'll continue to play at a high level.

(12-31-2015, 02:17 AM)Stonyhands Wrote: All you did was make excuses for the defense. They folded against a Denver offense that hadn't scored in the second half in three previous games.  Coming from halftime they gave up a TD drive so don't give me this altitude excuse BS.  

Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Jay Cutler, Phillip Rivers, and Matthew Stafford...


All QBs that lost to Denver's number 1 defense.  Guess those guys are all quality backups as well.  

Just quit hating on this kid who just lost his first NFL game in his second start against a very loaded defense.  Not to mention just about every excuse you gave, the same can be said about McCarron.  They played in the same damn stadium.  Give it a ***** rest already.

Folded? They gave up 17 points in regulation. That's extremely hard to do against Denver, in Denver. Only ONE time has Denver been held to 17 points or fewer at home this season. One.

All those QBs lost to Denver, yes. But Denver also scored 17 points or more on all those teams too. 29 on Aaron Rodgers. 30 on Brady.

McCarron lost to the Steelers as well. McCarron did well for a backup QB. But didn't show up when the team needed him the most.

(12-31-2015, 02:51 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I couldn't care less about what type of coverage a defense was in or not in, the deep pass that AJ slowed up early on--if he's running the whole time--that's a TD. The contested catch down the middle that was broken up, if he gets his arms extended, it's a catch. All appearance aside, i'm not bashing AJ, just pointing out a fact.

A couple one-on-one broken tackles by a couple other players would have helped as well. 

If he keeps running that route he's on the other side of the field. He read the play differently than McCarron, even said so. Cover 2 safety, the safety was in the middle of the field but watches Green. If McCarron throws that to the corner of the end zone, it's a TD easy. It was miscommunication by both and they both read the defense differently.

The deep pass that was broken up should have been caught. I agree with that, absolutely.

(12-31-2015, 02:37 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I agree that there's a window and this team's talent could start to spread to the wind a bit.

BUT NONE OF WHAT YOU ARE CRITICIZING WAS MCCARRON'S DOING.

I hardly feel spoiled with Dalton at QB. Guy has folded under the lights with regularity and is 1-2 in that situation this year.

May I suggest you direct your ire toward the front office or the Marv who knew very well this situation could easily arrive.

Andy Dalton was 10-2 this season. Lost to the Texans (bad play by offense overall). Can't put the blame on Dalton against the Cardinals. That's a tough defense and Dalton accounted for over 80% of that offense that game.

The team overall struggles in primetime. That's always been an issue. And "don't feel spoiled with Dalton"? Seriously? We went from Palmer to Dalton. Sometimes it takes teams years to find another franchise QB. We were very lucky. Especially since Mike Brown wanted Mallet and Kaepernick.

Would you prefer either one of those players to Dalton?

(12-31-2015, 11:36 AM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: McCarron did well for a backup QB. But didn't show up when the team needed him the most.

Really?