We lost alot more than people understood at time with bell and bates..yesterday after the interception Pittsburgh faced a third and 6 at our 37 yard line, Lou tired of seeing the tight end kill us in zone played man coverage with dax matched up one on one with friermuth..Pittsburgh lined the tight end up in stack formation with a close alignment meaning dax wouldn't be able to get a jam because of how they aligned him..The tight end ran a simple out route right at the sticks for a 1st down, after watching the replay you could see dax hesitate while the tight end simply ran a speed out..

Dax stayed flat foot before reacting and still got there as soon as the ball got there which shows impressive speed..I want to see these guys develop more awareness from film study,because in that alignment even I would've been guessing out route..just hoping these guys can become more aware as they play more so in the future we can jump plays like that maybe a stop right there could've changed the outcome..

The Bengals have a special player on the rise with Jordan Battle.

Amongst NFL Rookie Safeties, Battle ranks first in:

? PFF Defensive Grade (80.8)
? PFF Run Defense Grade (83.4)
? PFF Tackling Grade (84.4)
? Tackles (22)
? Run Stops (9)
? Pressures (5)

Since becoming… pic.twitter.com/b7pfFe6QZ8

— Willie Lutz (@willie_lutz) November 27, 2023

If Lou can’t work with Dax and Battle that’s on him.

(11-27-2023, 05:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

The Bengals have a special player on the rise with Jordan Battle.

Amongst NFL Rookie Safeties, Battle ranks first in:

? PFF Defensive Grade (80.8)
? PFF Run Defense Grade (83.4)
? PFF Tackling Grade (84.4)
? Tackles (22)
? Run Stops (9)
? Pressures (5)

Since becoming… pic.twitter.com/b7pfFe6QZ8

— Willie Lutz (@willie_lutz) November 27, 2023

If Lou can’t work with Dax and Battle that’s on him.

I agree....but the OP has a point too. They're young, so some recognition isn't there just yet. I believe it will get there. That's what he's pointing out, or that's how I took it. Dax's speed and athleticism allowed him to get out there to defend the pass, had he recognized earlier, that same speed and athleticism may have allowed him to jump the route and potentially get a pick 6. I personally think these two will wind up better than the duo they're replacing. It's great to get them reps as a tandem going forward this year.

(11-27-2023, 05:50 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I agree....but the OP has a point too. They're young, so some recognition isn't there just yet. I believe it will get there. That's what he's pointing out, or that's how I took it. Dax's speed and athleticism allowed him to get out there to defend the pass, had he recognized earlier, that same speed and athleticism may have allowed him to jump the route and potentially get a pick 6. I personally think these two will wind up better than the duo they're replacing. It's great to get them reps as a tandem going forward this year.

Dax had some bad moments yesterday (particularly on the TD) but I don’t buy for 2 seconds that the safeties are one of the main problems with this defense right now. They have no pass rush outside of Trey, and Pratt and Wilson have both been sucking lately.

(11-27-2023, 05:31 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

The Bengals have a special player on the rise with Jordan Battle.

Amongst NFL Rookie Safeties, Battle ranks first in:

? PFF Defensive Grade (80.8)
? PFF Run Defense Grade (83.4)
? PFF Tackling Grade (84.4)
? Tackles (22)
? Run Stops (9)
? Pressures (5)

Since becoming… pic.twitter.com/b7pfFe6QZ8

— Willie Lutz (@willie_lutz) November 27, 2023

If Lou can’t work with Dax and Battle that’s on him.

Well nice to our draft picks on a defense improving and succeeded something we don't see on our oline ... 

I don't have PFF numbers to back this up but just watching the games Battle has improved each and every game. Less mistakes, more reps, better positioning. It will take the rest of the season but he is going to soften the blow of losing Vonn Bell. Kid hits and has fire, they just need to get Hill (or a replacement) up to the point of playing CF like Bates could.

(11-27-2023, 05:50 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree....but the OP has a point too. They're young, so some recognition isn't there just yet. I believe it will get there. That's what he's pointing out, or that's how I took it. Dax's speed and athleticism allowed him to get out there to defend the pass, had he recognized earlier, that same speed and athleticism may have allowed him to jump the route and potentially get a pick 6. I personally think these two will wind up better than the duo they're replacing. It's great to get them reps as a tandem going forward this year.

I am not worried longer term and also believe that than can end up being better or at least equal once they become Veterans.

Wish there was a way to see how Bates and Bell would have performed as rookie/2nd year players with this same 2023 Bengal Team.

Need a Crazy Scientist and a DeLorean to find out. 

They would probably have recognition issues as well. 

Dax & Battle should be much better going into 2024.

(11-27-2023, 05:56 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well nice to our draft picks on a defense improving and succeeded something we don't see on our oline ... 

Volson actually graded out very well this week. Against Cam Heyward of all people.

In my perfect world Dax is our roaming FS and we have a better SS with him. Battle is likely gonna be that guy next season but right NOW he’s not. Nick Scott was a total whiff and for everyone’s sake i think you wanna cut him this offseason

(11-27-2023, 05:57 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I don't have PFF numbers to back this up but just watching the games Battle has improved each and every game. Less mistakes, more reps, better positioning. It will take the rest of the season but he is going to soften the blow of losing Vonn Bell. Kid hits and has fire, they just need to get Hill (or a replacement) up to the point of playing CF like Bates could.

No one can be coached up to be Bates

Bates was a damn near genius back there.

He was able to cover so much ground it was insane.



Letting him walk when we had the money is just insane.


It may have lost the season for us honestly.

(11-27-2023, 06:08 PM)Housh Wrote: No one can be coached up to be Bates

Bates was a damn near genius back there.

He was able to cover so much ground it was insane.



Letting him walk when we had the money is just insane.


It may have lost the season for us honestly.

How did they “have the money” to pay him the $16m a year ATL gave him? They currently have $11.8M in cap space. Even if you subtract Nick Scott’s contract ($2.3M), they couldn’t have matched what he got.

(11-27-2023, 06:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How did they “have the money” to pay him the $16m a year ATL gave him? They currently have $11.8M in cap space. Even if you subtract Nick Scott’s contract ($2.3M), they couldn’t have matched what he got.

Could’ve done whatever moves they had to do to make it work.


They just didn’t think he mattered that much


They were obviously wrong

(11-27-2023, 06:19 PM)Housh Wrote: Could’ve done whatever moves they had to do to make it work.


They just didn’t think he mattered that much


They were obviously wrong

Ok.

I've noticed Dax looks a lot better on his front foot. But he seems to second-guess himself a lot, at least a lot more than Bates. Can't play CF for Lou if you're unsure of yourself, if you're too careful. Gotta impose your will. I'm sure he's learning and he'll come of it the better- and he has the athleticism to do it- but the learning curve has been more painful than I had expected.

(11-27-2023, 05:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Dax had some bad moments yesterday (particularly on the TD) but I don’t buy for 2 seconds that the safeties are one of the main problems with this defense right now. They have no pass rush outside of Trey, and Pratt and Wilson have both been sucking lately.

I'm with you on that. Pratt seems to be ONLY going for the ball, and not the tackle first. Also, I've noticed him having issues shedding blocks. I haven't noticed as much with Wilson, but I haven't been looking that closely either. I guess the INTs have me with the orange colored glasses too much with Logan.

(11-27-2023, 06:16 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How did they “have the money” to pay him the $16m a year ATL gave him? They currently have $11.8M in cap space. Even if you subtract Nick Scott’s contract ($2.3M), they couldn’t have matched what he got.

They could have cut Hilton, Mixon, and not resigned Pratt or use the money on Bates instead of Zeus. Also could have restructured a couple of contracts to fit Bates in. 

Should have signed him in the 21 offseason.

  

Bates was our best defensive player for the past couple of years. We're 100% Missing him on defense.

Everyone in front of them is playing the run worse this year than last year. Most of the secondary is in their first year starting for the Bengals. They are also flipping Dax Hill and Mike Hilton from deep safety and slot corner. I expect the chemistry to be a work in progress.
This year we are letting Higgins and Boyd to hit free agency the same year. I expect the same growing pains at WR next year.

(11-27-2023, 06:33 PM)J24 Wrote: They could have cut Hilton, Mixon, and not resigned Pratt or use the money on Bates instead of Zeus. Also could have restructured a couple of contracts to fit Bates in. 

Should have signed him in the 21 offseason.

  

Mixon is the only player you named I would have been alright without.

(11-27-2023, 06:39 PM)J24 Wrote: Bates was our best defensive player for the past couple of years. We're 100% Missing him on defense.

That’s debatable. Many would probably say Trey or Reader.

Not worried about the safties. More so worried about the coverage from our linebacks recently and the DL (lack of pressure and inability to stop the run).