It's deep enough into season to say this. In Super Bowl year Bengals had Uzomah making big plays. He killed The Ravens. Last year Bengals went to AFC Championship with Hurst playing great TE. Bengals went with yet another TE in 2023, and he never panned out. This Irv Smith isn't cutting it. You watch how Chiefs use Kelce, or how Bills use there TE, or 49ers, or how last week the Steelers big playmaker was their TE. Bengals just don't have that in 2023. Yes, others have tried to step up instead of Smith, but none of them are as good as Uzomah or Hurst.

Not having that TE play as in last 2 Championship years has really hurt Bengals running game and passing game. That TE play forces the defense to not cover the RBs and WR's so tight. The TE plays are sweet bread and butter plays. The Bengals had something like a Kelce last 2 years, and nothing like a Kelce this year. Defenses can stuff the run and cover Chase tighter because of lack of a top TE this year.

I had a good high school coach who won city championship in Dayton with a TE Option play years ago. He called it the Gangster Right. The QB takes the snap and rolls right. If the LB comes after the QB, he throws it to the open TE. If the LB stays with the TE, the QB runs for free open yards. I have seen with Bengals last 2 years how Uzomah or Hurst really would burn defenses, and that made defenses cover TE more which helped Bengals RBs and WR's and Burrow.

For Bengals to win again in 2024, they need to dump Smith and bring in a good TE, and that will make the rest of the playbook work better if the D has to respect Bengals TE more. Just look at Chiefs, 49ers, Bills and other teams to see how a good TE really sets up the rest of the playbook to open up. A basic play is the TE button hook, do defenses respect Bengals on this play ? Not in 2023 and defenses can focus more on Bengals RB's and WR's.

(11-30-2023, 01:53 PM)kevin Wrote: It's deep enough into season to say this.  In Super Bowl year Bengals had Uzomah making big plays. He killed The Ravens. Last year Bengals went to AFC Championship with Hurst playing great TE.  Bengals went with yet another TE in 2023, and he never panned out.  This Irv Smith isn't cutting it.  You watch how Chiefs use Kelce, or how Bills use there TE, or 49ers, or how last week the Steelers big playmaker was their TE.  Bengals just don't have that in 2023.  Yes, others have tried to step up instead of Smith, but none of them are as good as Uzomah or Hurst.

Not having that TE play as in last 2 Championship years has really hurt Bengals running game and passing game. That TE play forces the defense to not cover the RBs and WR's so tight.  The TE plays are sweet bread and butter plays.  The Bengals had something like a Kelce last 2 years, and nothing like a Kelce this year.  Defenses can stuff the run and cover Chase tighter because of lack of a top TE this year.  

For Bengals to win again in 2024, they need to dump Smith and bring in a good TE, and that will make the rest of the playbook work better if the D has to respect Bengals TE more.

The QB throwing to them hasn't been as good either.  It is EVERY Bengals receiver falling short of previous stats not just the TEs

If our TEs got to play against our defense, they'd be killin' it.

(11-30-2023, 01:55 PM)jason Wrote: If our TEs got to play against our defense, they'd be killin' it.

No, Bengals D would easily stop Bengals TE's.    Irv Smith has been awful, and the others have tried to step up, but Bengals TE's stink in 2023.  That needs corrected in 2024 for this offense to be like last 2 Championship years.  This team really misses what Uzomah or Hurst brought to this team.

Zach Ertz is being waived by Arizona. Maybe Bengals should think about it.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/11/cardinals-to-waive-te-zach-ertz

(11-30-2023, 03:06 PM)cinci4life Wrote: Zach Ertz is being waived by Arizona. Maybe Bengals should think about it.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/11/cardinals-to-waive-te-zach-ertz

Might not be bad for the rest of the year if he'll come in cheap, but he's 33 and we're better off drafting someone for the future.

(11-30-2023, 01:54 PM)pally Wrote: The QB throwing to them hasn't been as good either.  It is EVERY Bengals receiver falling short of previous stats not just the TEs

Not their fault. Everyone knows that if a defense plays Cover 2, you can't possibly do anything against it other than only throwing passes around the line of scrimmage to become the dinkiest of dunkers.  

I think Hudson might be able to do what Uzomah/Hurst did for the offense. This is never going to be a TE first offense with Chase on the team.
The Bengals beat two of the teams you listed this season so maybe not the best examples. Kelce is a HOF talent with an all time great QB. Bengals are strong at WR (with healthy Higgins) so TE will only be the 4th or 5th option for them.

I agree Smith stinks but bad TE play is not at the top of the list for things holding this team back. O line is the #1 thing they need to fix.

(11-30-2023, 02:14 PM)kevin Wrote: No, Bengals D would easily stop Bengals TE's.    Irv Smith has been awful, and the others have tried to step up, but Bengals TE's stink in 2023.  That needs corrected in 2024 for this offense to be like last 2 Championship years.  This team really misses what Uzomah or Hurst brought to this team.

Yeah... Let me know when we contain a TE... Engram is about to have a big game Monday night.

(11-30-2023, 05:54 PM)jason Wrote: Yeah... Let me know when we contain a TE... Engram is about to have a big game Monday night.

So far this year:

Mark Andrews (GM 1)

David Njoku 

The Bengals offensive gameplan
Rarely calls for the TEs to threaten the
2nd and 3rd levels of the defense.
Rewind the film to when CJ torched the Ravens
In that SB year. He was getting upfield in that 12 to 20
Yard range. Have not seen that since.
Kinda easy for a opposing defense to defend the Bengals
TEs when all they run on the route tree are checkdowns
In the flats or underneath hole routes at 4 yds

QB has not bee as good as last 2 years.
RB has not bee as good as last 2 years.
WR has not bee as good as last 2 years.
LB has not bee as good as last 2 years.
S has not bee as good as last 2 years.


But let's focus on the 5th option in our passing game.....

Actually the TEs are playing almost exactly like they did last year, except Hurst isn't playing for the Bengals. And Hudson is playing better than Hurst last year, but our coaches are bleeping idiots and continue to play Irv Smith instead.

we know. thats not the problem with the team

I hope they draft a guy in the middle rounds this year with actual upside. No more Irv Smiths. No more 1-year Band-Aids. Had this been a year where Burrow doesn't get hurt and we truly had a chance at a deep playoff run (or playoffs at all), I would be all for dropping an earlyish pick on a TE, but this team clearly has holes (possible new RT, G/C, Pass Rush) that those first few rounds need covered ahead of TE. I get Zac's love of 11 personnel but having the ability to use 2TE and big sets and be able to pass out of them would be a huge boon to this offense. Lessen the predictability. Attack the seams more often. Help the run game and under-center play action.



Sent from my SM-A146U using Tapatalk

(11-30-2023, 06:31 PM)casear2727 Wrote: QB has not bee as good as last 2 years.
RB has not bee as good as last 2 years.
WR has not bee as good as last 2 years.
LB has not bee as good as last 2 years.
S has not bee as good as last 2 years.


But let's focus on the 5th option in our passing game.....

This.

I bet that if you look at receiving yards our WR production has fallen off more from last year than our TE production.

And anyonw who thinks defenses were pulling coverage off Chase/Higins/Boyd for help double Hurts/Uzomah are crazy.

I hope people don't think Joe Burrow is out there going #1 Chase #2 Tee #3 Boyd.. because he's not. Tight End is apart of the primary read alot that's why they target the position with regularity.

Hayden Hurst was the best TE in the offense so far. Poor blocker which showed up but he could win in man and zone and convert 1st downs physically with YAC. In a pass heavy 5 wide any person that catches balls and can make plays is important.


Right now I see a bunch of TEs on the roster that are mediocre are very few things a peice. Hudson can win against zone he's a smart receiver but in man coverage he gets pushed around by smaller DBs. Also adds zero blocking including check release or any chip releases (which is important). Drew Sample the "blocking" Tight End well he can block DEs with a backside or be the first side TE in a duo where he goes 1 on 1 with the DE. Sample can also run and pass block from thr RB/FB spot. What he's not good at doing blocking wise is climbing to linebackers and blocking in space on screens. He's also not really a receiver yes he has a couple passes off check releases where rhe linebacker has left him wide open in coverage. Irv Smith and Mitchell Wilcox are in thr same boat neither do anything well but they use them blocking for rhe screens and getting to the linebackers because they are better at it than Hudson and Sample.

(12-01-2023, 07:34 AM)Synric Wrote: I hope people don't think Joe Burrow is out there going #1 Chase #2 Tee #3 Boyd.. because he's not. Tight End is apart of the primary read alot that's why they target the position with regularity.

Hayden Hurst was the best TE in the offense so far. Poor blocker which showed up but he could win in man and zone and convert 1st downs physically with YAC. In a pass heavy 5 wide any person that catches balls and can make plays is important.


Right now I see a bunch of TEs on the roster that are mediocre are very few things a peice. Hudson can win against zone he's a smart receiver but in man coverage he gets pushed around by smaller DBs. Also adds zero blocking including check release or any chip releases (which is important). Drew Sample the "blocking" Tight End well he can block DEs with a backside or be the first side TE in a duo where he goes 1 on 1 with the DE. Sample can also run and pass block from thr RB/FB spot. What he's not good at doing blocking wise is climbing to linebackers and blocking in space on screens. He's also not really a receiver yes he has a couple passes off check releases where rhe linebacker has left him wide open in coverage. Irv Smith and Mitchell Wilcox are in thr same boat neither do anything well but they use them blocking for rhe screens and getting to the linebackers because they are better at it than Hudson and Sample.

I see all the current SB contenders as having a legit TE on their teams...
SF-Kittle
Detroit- awsome Rookie TE LaPorta
Dallas - Ferguson ( 4th rounder looks good) 
Philly - Goedert and Albert A
Balt - Andrews
KC - Taylors BF
Jax - Engram
Miami - Tyler Kroft!? lol ...actually only team that doesnt have a upper tier TE...but Tyreek, Waddle

but Bengals say we are so talented every where else that "we dont need that" a major headscratcher

(11-30-2023, 03:06 PM)cinci4life Wrote: Zach Ertz is being waived by Arizona. Maybe Bengals should think about it.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/11/cardinals-to-waive-te-zach-ertz

(11-30-2023, 03:26 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: Might not be bad for the rest of the year if he'll come in cheap, but he's 33 and we're better off drafting someone for the future.

He wants to go play for a contender and get a 2nd ring, per reports.  He isn't coming here.

(12-01-2023, 12:06 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Miami - Tyler Kroft!? lol ...actually only team that doesnt have a upper tier TE...but Tyreek, Waddle

but Bengals say we are so talented every where else that "we dont need that" a major headscratcher

Not a "head scratcher" at all.  In fact you just posted another example of a team that does not need a great TE because they use their WRs so much.

I agree that we could use an upgrade over what we have right now at TE, but it would only be a minor upgrade.  It would not be the game changer that so many here claim.