(12-05-2023, 10:25 PM)Tomkat Wrote:

running it a bunch if you're averaging less than 4 yards a pop is futile. If you're averaging 4.5+, yea, keep running.

Frank is right of course, also have to add targeting Ja'Marr Chase over 10 times wins us a lot of games as well.

But yeah, if we can get the running game going with more under Center play with Browning we could win out yah never know.

Give Chase Brown more snaps please...

(12-05-2023, 10:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: running it a bunch if you're averaging less than 4 yards a pop is futile. If you're averaging 4.5+, yea, keep running.

I mean really how naive can people be? He’s just as frustrated as anybody.

(12-05-2023, 10:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: running it a bunch if you're averaging less than 4 yards a pop is futile. If you're averaging 4.5+, yea, keep running.

They look at analytics constantly and efficiency

(12-05-2023, 10:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: running it a bunch if you're averaging less than 4 yards a pop is futile. If you're averaging 4.5+, yea, keep running.

Keep running no matter what. If the defense knows a pass is coming they’ll sit in zone coverage and pick balls out of the air all day. If a run play is even possible it gives the defense pause and causes the secondary to hesitate briefly. That’s why delayed draw plays work so well.

(12-05-2023, 10:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Keep running no matter what.  If the defense knows a pass is coming they’ll sit in zone coverage and pick balls out of the air all day. If a run play is even possible it gives the defense pause and causes the secondary to hesitate briefly.  That’s why delayed draw plays work so well.

This^^^^

(12-05-2023, 10:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Keep running no matter what.  If the defense knows a pass is coming they’ll sit in zone coverage and pick balls out of the air all day. If a run play is even possible it gives the defense pause and causes the secondary to hesitate briefly.  That’s why delayed draw plays work so well.

Yes, even if you aren't averaging good YPC running the ball can still be beneficial.

(12-05-2023, 10:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, even if you aren't averaging good YPC running the ball can still be beneficial.

As long as you're not creating a lot of 3rd and longs because you're getting stonewalled. And I've seen my fill of getting stonewalled.

(12-05-2023, 10:32 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Give Chase Brown more snaps please...

He just came back off IR so I expect to see a whole lot more of him.  He was in beast mode last night, and we need to keep that train rolling.

Running the football will force that safety down into
The box. Chases 76 yd TD catch was made possible
By running the football.
It's not rocket science. A balanced offensive attack
Keeps defenses guessing.

(12-05-2023, 10:29 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: running it a bunch if you're averaging less than 4 yards a pop is futile. If you're averaging 4.5+, yea, keep running.

Very true Frank

I swear people described Zach’s play calling as “run run pass” at one point. What happened?

(12-06-2023, 03:02 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: I swear people described Zach’s play calling as “run run pass” at one point. What happened?

Nah, you are remembering wrong. 

Bratkowski was the "run run pass" offense. Taylor is the "run pass pass" offense.

Andy Dalton's first career game with Zac Taylor, he threw 51 times and they ran it 14 times despite never being down by more than 4 and having a lead 3 different times in the game. Dalton threw 50+ passes 3 times in 13 games that year despite only doing it 3 times in the 120 previous games he played.

I love it when people try to blame Zac's offense on Burrow opting out of runs, but Zac's literally who he has always been, even pre-Burrow. In 2016 with UC he had Hayden Moore, Gunner Kiel, and Ross Trail throw it 452 times in 12 games (almost 38 passes per game). Meanwhile their leading rusher averaging 4.7 yards per carry on just 159 carries and he had a backup RB who averaged 7.4ypc the year before and ended up in the NFL (still is there, Mike Boone). Inherited the 37th scoring offense and in his only year he turned them into the 123rd out of 128.

At some point you just need to accept the scorpion is the scorpion. Can't help it, it's in his nature.

(12-05-2023, 10:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Keep running no matter what.  If the defense knows a pass is coming they’ll sit in zone coverage and pick balls out of the air all day. If a run play is even possible it gives the defense pause and causes the secondary to hesitate briefly.  That’s why delayed draw plays work so well.

Agree. You need some balance on offense, and even if you're not running the ball well you still have to make the defence account for the possibility you might be running the ball. Nobody is saying give Joe Mixon 30 carries if he's going 2 YPC. But you certainly should run it more than the 8 times we managed the other week.

(12-06-2023, 12:21 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: As long as you're not creating a lot of 3rd and longs because you're getting stonewalled. And I've seen my fill of getting stonewalled.

And that's why you DON'T run it even if it isn't effective.

This isn't the 70s.

Chase's 76 yarder was mentioned above: that only worked because it was 3rd and 1 If it was 3rd and 7-10, you can bet he's being doubled.

(12-05-2023, 10:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Keep running no matter what.  If the defense knows a pass is coming they’ll sit in zone coverage and pick balls out of the air all day. If a run play is even possible it gives the defense pause and causes the secondary to hesitate briefly.  That’s why delayed draw plays work so well.

I agree with this. Eventually you will wear down the defense in the 4th quarter and those runs will start to break through. Can't just give up after the first 2 quarters if you aren't averaging 4.5. Backs like Mixon (used to be) get stronger as the game goes on.

(12-06-2023, 03:02 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: I swear people described Zach’s play calling as “run run pass” at one point. What happened?

I thought it was pass, run, pass (those 2nd and 10 runs that drive people crazy). 

(12-06-2023, 05:10 AM)TheCincinnatiKid Wrote: Agree. You need some balance on offense, and even if you're not running the ball well you still have to make the defence account for the possibility you might be running the ball. Nobody is saying give Joe Mixon 30 carries if he's going 2 YPC. But you certainly should run it more than the 8 times we managed the other week.

I think people are getting a little too bent out of shape with the eight carries line. Cincinnati only ran 40 plays, excluding a kneel at the half. They ran the ball 20% of the time, a notable deviation from their standard 34% of the time. In order to get down into that range, you would bump Mixon's carries from eight to 13. The defense has to account for the possibility of running the ball if a RB is on the field. They can't just disregard him, even if the team isn't running the ball often. Those run fits still have to be played. It's why RPOs and playaction just work, whether your running game is performing well or not. 

The Bengals have scored 30 or more points on game days where I eat a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich.