(12-11-2023, 08:59 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I still don't get your logic here. I mean I get it for QBs if your saying passing yardage total but I don't really think it applies to RBs ypc. A winning formula is a winning formula. 
But I'm not saying Mixon a top back or even top 10 anymore but he is a solid RB. I know he has limitations and I know we will need to get a more dynamic back in the near future. But we are also gonna need to put forth better effort in utilizing said RB than we have with Mixon throughout his career. 

he's not solid. He's a good receiving back. He's not a good runner. He's inefficient. The fact's and data are there. Anyone fighting this is just deluded  

best thing Mixon can do for the team now is keep Brown's legs fresh and not fumble the ball

(12-11-2023, 09:04 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: he's not solid. He's a good receiving back. He's not a good runner. He's inefficient. The fact's and data are there. Anyone fighting this is just deluded  

best thing Mixon can do for the team now is keep Brown's legs fresh and not fumble the ball

He is solid. You use bad logic. Mic drop!

I think he is mediocre.

The awful Oline these last few years hasn’t exactly helped him either.

Great hands though and is definitely durable.

I disagree with those saying 4.1 YPC is "not good" for a bellcow, who doesn't get replaced in short-yardage/goalline situations.

Emmitt Smith averaged 4.2 throughout his career.

(12-11-2023, 09:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I disagree with those saying 4.1 YPC is "not good" for a bellcow, who doesn't get replaced in short-yardage/goalline situations.

Emmitt Smith averaged 4.2 throughout his career.

There is more going into an average than just the average that is for damn sure. You get the ball at the 1 yard line and punch it in 
you are averaging 1 YPC. Pretty terrible man I know.

Mixon is running hard and he can catch.

Other than that... he still has serious balance issues and gets tackled by his legs/feet way to easily.

If only those issues had been addressed throughout the years, he would be a threat to opposing defenses.

Sadly, he has not improved those at all.

How many times have we heard commentators say "he had a lot of green space ahead of him/if he breaks that arm tackle it's 6"?

I'm just glad he stopped dancing and has decided to hit the holes quicker the past two seasons.

Before that happened, I wanted him to be sent packing. For sure. 100%

(12-11-2023, 09:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I disagree with those saying 4.1 YPC is "not good" for a bellcow, who doesn't get replaced in short-yardage/goalline situations.

Emmitt Smith averaged 4.2 throughout his career.

Emmitt Smith averaged 4.4 through his age 27 season, which is where Mixon is currently at in his career.

Emmitt Smith was .5 higher than the league average of that time of 3.9. 
Mixon's 4.1 is .2 LOWER than the league average of 4.3 of that time.

(12-11-2023, 10:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Emmitt Smith averaged 4.4 through his age 27 season, which is where Mixon is currently at in his career.

Emmitt Smith was .5 higher than the league average of that time of 3.9. 
Mixon's 4.1 is .2 LOWER than the league average of 4.3 of that time.

Sure. I just disagree that a Bellcow averaging over 4.0 YPC is "not good". FWIW Chris Evans is 2.7 ABOVE  the league average. But I also like Ced Benson more than the vast majority of this board. 

(12-11-2023, 10:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Emmitt Smith averaged 4.4 through his age 27 season, which is where Mixon is currently at in his career.

Emmitt Smith was .5 higher than the league average of that time of 3.9. 
Mixon's 4.1 is .2 LOWER than the league average of 4.3 of that time.

I get it. Maybe this is where the disconnect is. People in support of Mixon are concerned about winning football and say 4 ypc is good for a back as concerned about winning football. The people saying 4 ypc isn't good enough are more concerned with how that stacks up to the rest of the league to determine if that is good. Which I'm not saying is wrong but and I've said we need to get more dynamic at RB in the near future. But when looked at thru the lense of winning football 4ypc is good. Look at this last game. We didn't run great our ypc at the end wasn't good of 3.5 ypc. But it was still a winning formula. I think it really hinges on that 4 ypc mark as Mixon was right there until the end and really only fell off running late. The only thing we were missing was Browns explosive runs if we would've had any of those we really would've blown it up.

Doesn't do enough for how much he gets paid. Whether that's been on him or the O-line has always been the story.

However he is never going to break one and that's always been a sore spot for me. He just can't take it to the house.

The real issue for people is we think a rookie or Vet can have similar production for way less cash.

Because Joe Mixon doesn’t have a flashy playstyle. He has enough speed to turn the corner but not enough speed to consistently break 40 yard runs. He has enough power to break tackles, but he won’t run through the entire defense like Derrick Henry.

Joe Mixon is a jack of all trades and master of none. He’s run behind some horrible o-lines and made something out of nothing his entire career.

There’s a strong possibility that Joe Mixon will be the Bengals second most rushing yards all time. He’s easily the best Bengals running back of my lifetime. If Mixon had a better line and a coach willing to stick with the run he’d probably have a 5.0 YPC average.

(12-11-2023, 11:09 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: Because Joe Mixon doesn’t have a flashy playstyle. He has enough speed to turn the corner but not enough speed to consistently break 40 yard runs. He has enough power to break tackles, but he won’t run through the entire defense like Derrick Henry.

Joe Mixon is a jack of all trades and master of none. He’s run behind some horrible o-lines and made something out of nothing his entire career.

There’s a strong possibility that Joe Mixon will be the Bengals second most rushing yards all time. He’s easily the best Bengals running back of my lifetime. If Mixon had a better line and a coach willing to stick with the run he’d probably have a 5.0 YPC average.

You must be pretty young.

(12-11-2023, 11:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: You must be pretty young.

I meant to say my time as a Bengals fan. Corey Dillon is the best Bengals RB of my lifetime.

(12-11-2023, 11:23 PM)C0de_M0nkey Wrote: I meant to say my time as a Bengals fan. Corey Dillon is the best Bengals RB of my lifetime.

Ah gotcha. Probably the same for me tbh. I got really hardcore into the team in 05.

This thread is missing someone. Seems like a trap.

(12-11-2023, 10:35 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Emmitt Smith averaged 4.4 through his age 27 season, which is where Mixon is currently at in his career.

Emmitt Smith was .5 higher than the league average of that time of 3.9. 
Mixon's 4.1 is .2 LOWER than the league average of 4.3 of that time.

How was Emmitt Smith's o-line during that time? I remember that they were considered the best o-line in the league for those Super Bowl years.

(12-11-2023, 11:32 PM)Destro Wrote: This thread is missing someone. Seems like a trap.

This thread should have triggered some type of Sooner bat signal for him.

(12-11-2023, 10:51 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: I get it. Maybe this is where the disconnect is. People in support of Mixon are concerned about winning football and say 4 ypc is good for a back as concerned about winning football. The people saying 4 ypc isn't good enough are more concerned with how that stacks up to the rest of the league to determine if that is good. Which I'm not saying is wrong but and I've said we need to get more dynamic at RB in the near future. But when looked at thru the lense of winning football 4ypc is good. Look at this last game. We didn't run great our ypc at the end wasn't good of 3.5 ypc. But it was still a winning formula. I think it really hinges on that 4 ypc mark as Mixon was right there until the end and really only fell off running late. The only thing we were missing was Browns explosive runs if we would've had any of those we really would've blown it up.

That makes zero sense, though. How is being happy about 4 ypc some magical caring about winning metric and wanting to be over 4 ypc means you don't actually care about winning? That's just some no true scotsman nonsense. Next you'll tell me that Joe Burrow having a 59.8 QB Rating is good because they beat the Rams when he did that, so that's a winning formula and if you're concerned about winning football, then 59.8 QB Rating is good and if you want a higher QB Rating than that then you clearly just don't care about winning.

3.5ypc is only a winning football formula when you hold a team to just 14 points and have a QB with a 122.7 QB Rating, sure... but that's just because holding a team to 14 points and having a QB who does amazing is always a winning formula regardless of rushing. Browning was averaging 11.5 yards per ATTEMPT.

Top 10 Teams in YPC 2023:
Dolphins
Ravens
Cardinals
49ers
Lions
Commanders
Bears
Bills
Chiefs
Broncos
(7 winning teams)

Bottom 5 Teams in YPC 2023:
Raiders
Buccaneers
Jaguars
Texans
Saints
Chargers
Bengals
Giants
Vikings
Patriots
(4 winning teams)

So seriously, how can wanting to have a better YPC be considered not caring about winning? The Patriots are the only team in the bottom 10 with at least a 4.0ypc, and they're at exactly 4.0ypc.

Again, even if 4.0 was some magical number, Mixon has been below it in 3 of the last 4 years and each of the last 2. That's BAD.

- - - - - - -

This all feels suspiciously like a thread awhile back on here where someone was swearing that 60% completion would ALWAYS be considered good and enough to consider a QB to be accurate, because it was considered good 20 years ago.

Just completely refused to accept that you'd be considered inaccurate in today's NFL. The times change, and what was good enough to win games back then, aren't now.

(12-11-2023, 11:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That makes zero sense, though. How is being happy about 4 ypc some magical caring about winning metric and wanting to be over 4 ypc means you don't actually care about winning? That's just some no true scotsman nonsense. Next you'll tell me that Joe Burrow having a 59.8 QB Rating is good because they beat the Rams when he did that, so that's a winning formula and if you're concerned about winning football, then 59.8 QB Rating is good and if you want a higher QB Rating than that then you clearly just don't care about winning.

3.5ypc is only a winning football formula when you hold a team to just 14 points and have a QB with a 122.7 QB Rating, sure... but that's just because holding a team to 14 points and having a QB who does amazing is always a winning formula regardless of rushing. Browning was averaging 11.5 yards per ATTEMPT.

Top 10 Teams in YPC 2023:
Dolphins
Ravens
Cardinals
49ers
Lions
Commanders
Bears
Bills
Chiefs
Broncos
(7 winning teams)

Bottom 5 Teams in YPC 2023:
Raiders
Buccaneers
Jaguars
Texans
Saints
Chargers
Bengals
Giants
Vikings
Patriots
(4 winning teams)

So seriously, how can wanting to have a better YPC be considered not caring about winning? The Patriots are the only team in the bottom 10 with at least a 4.0ypc, and they're at exactly 4.0ypc.

Again, even if 4.0 was some magical number, Mixon has been below it in 3 of the last 4 years and each of the last 2. That's BAD.

- - - - - - -

This all feels suspiciously like a thread awhile back on here where someone was swearing that 60% completion would ALWAYS be considered good and enough to consider a QB to be accurate, because it was considered good 20 years ago.

Just completely refused to accept that you'd be considered inaccurate in today's NFL. The times change, and what was good enough to win games back then, aren't now.

It’s impossible to argue with that guy lol. You tell him Mixon’s ypa is below average, and that 4ypc is not good, and he agrees. But then he says 4 yards per carry is good..

There’s no getting through

(12-11-2023, 11:32 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: How was Emmitt Smith's o-line during that time? I remember that they were considered the best o-line in the league for those Super Bowl years.

Well if your rushing ypa is .5 higher than the league average, you most likely have the best rushing attack in the league. So yea, the o-line was definitely impressive