(01-01-2024, 03:06 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Were we actually winning game 2 before Browning had to come in? The game log says that Joe Burrow threw a 4 yard TD to Mixon to go up 10-7, and then the very next drive the Ravens scored a TD to go up 10-14. Then the next drive Browning came in. Also ignoring the fact that the Ravens lost Andrews even earlier in the game and Lamar got his ankle twisted.

Also the Steelers games can just as easily be "Steelers Game 1: We played Kenny Pickett" and "Steelers Game 2: We played Mason Rudolph".

Browns Game 1: If Burrow played in a hurricane, that means the Browns QB also played in a hurricane, and their QB was Watson who has been terrible for them.

- - - - -

Just seems like trying to make way too many excuses and putting too many asterisks from purely an our side point of view.

I am not ignoring anything, Im just not being a pessimistic whiny ass.  We are absolutely more competitive with a healthy Burrow.  You guys can b!tch and moan all you want, but without Burrow this team isnt doing much.  With Burrow we beat the 49ers and Bills, and we were holding our own vs the Ravens, that tells me we could beat any team even with the bad play of the defense and the coaching mishaps.  There are areas to improve, but Im not going to cry about this season without Burrow, simple as that.

(01-01-2024, 05:14 AM)Ell Prez Wrote: Without doing much research, my plan would be:

-tag and trade Tee (net a 2nd)
-Sign and trade Browning (net a 4th?)

-cut Mixon, save $6M
-cut Hubbard, save $6M (not 100% sure I’d do this, but we need pressure)

That gives us over $70M in cap space. I’d target in FA:

-starting #1 cb ($20M/year). This allows CTB to be #2 and Turner the 3rd and not have to start
-Starting S ($12M/year) so Hill can come off the bench
-edge ($12M) to go along with Murphy
-starting DT ($15M)
-older vet WR or 2 ($6m)

Draft
Round 1 - RT
Round 2 - Guard, DL
Round 3 - RB
Round 4 -7 BPA



I used to be so hard on the must extend Tee train, but after this year, what’s the point. This team sucked with him and chase and burrow all on the field. Give Burrow a stellar D, a run game, and let him do the rest with Chase and a couple talented but speedy receivers.

What happens the year after though? Joe’s contract kicks in. I’m not sure what he’s being paid now, but I thought I saw it was in the 20s somewhere? If so that’s an additional $30 million in 2025. Will there be space for those contracts in 2025?

(01-01-2024, 11:59 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I am not ignoring anything, Im just not being a pessimistic whiny ass.  We are absolutely more competitive with a healthy Burrow.  You guys can b!tch and moan all you want, but without Burrow this team isnt doing much.  With Burrow we beat the 49ers and Bills, and we were holding our own vs the Ravens, that tells me we could beat any team even with the bad play of the defense and the coaching mishaps.  There are areas to improve, but Im not going to cry about this season without Burrow, simple as that.

I've cried every season since Boomer and the gang lost the Super Bowl. 

(01-01-2024, 11:59 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I am not ignoring anything, Im just not being a pessimistic whiny ass.  We are absolutely more competitive with a healthy Burrow.  You guys can b!tch and moan all you want, but without Burrow this team isnt doing much.  With Burrow we beat the 49ers and Bills, and we were holding our own vs the Ravens, that tells me we could beat any team even with the bad play of the defense and the coaching mishaps.  There are areas to improve, but Im not going to cry about this season without Burrow, simple as that.

Well said

(01-01-2024, 12:01 PM)michaelsean Wrote: What happens the year after though? Joe’s contract kicks in. I’m not sure what he’s being paid now, but I thought I saw it was in the 20s somewhere?  If so that’s an additional $30 million in 2025.  Will there be space for those contracts in 2025?

That is the thing many dont get.  No great player wants a one year contract, thus why we didnt pay Bates 16M per for 4 years.  You understand that cap space is going to be depleted by Burrow, Chase and OBjr the next few years, not sure why some dont. 

(01-01-2024, 11:59 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I am not ignoring anything, Im just not being a pessimistic whiny ass.  We are absolutely more competitive with a healthy Burrow.  You guys can b!tch and moan all you want, but without Burrow this team isnt doing much.  With Burrow we beat the 49ers and Bills, and we were holding our own vs the Ravens, that tells me we could beat any team even with the bad play of the defense and the coaching mishaps.  There are areas to improve, but Im not going to cry about this season without Burrow, simple as that.

Im not crying either, i am more hopeful of what we actually did without Burrow helps us with a healthy Burrow on offense,and in the end teams need to be better on both sides of the Ball to have a very legit chance at making SB.. this defense is not playing at the level that helped carry us to SB so even with Burrow this year don;t see it happening. I am chalking it up to just a bad year, never felt the offense with Burrow and the defense of previous two years seemed to click this year to make a real run.

Build the trenches.

Defense - have a (rotating) commanding front-4; it makes the job easier for everyone else on the field behind them; blitzing is minimized; more zone, zone mixes and brackets

Offense - heavy running, let the oline have fun and get to attack the defense; bring in a huge cowbell RB that can get that 1-yard punch; the long-threat will always be there with Burrow under center, but it would be stupid to not take advantage of that threat without a ground game to set that up

Whoever controls the trenches controls the game.

(01-01-2024, 11:59 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I am not ignoring anything, Im just not being a pessimistic whiny ass.  We are absolutely more competitive with a healthy Burrow.  You guys can b!tch and moan all you want, but without Burrow this team isnt doing much.  With Burrow we beat the 49ers and Bills, and we were holding our own vs the Ravens, that tells me we could beat any team even with the bad play of the defense and the coaching mishaps.  There are areas to improve, but Im not going to cry about this season without Burrow, simple as that.

Accepting that this team got manhandled by their division is not the same thing as being a pessimistic whiny ass. It's accepting reality.

Step 1 to solving a problem? Acknowledging there's a problem.

The 49ers are 1-3 against the AFCN this year. The Ravens right now are showing right now that other teams in the NFL aren't built to win AFCN football. We aren't built to win AFCN football either right now. That's not a "crap theory" and admitting it doesn't make one a "pessimistic whiny ass".

(01-01-2024, 01:42 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Accepting that this team got manhandled by their division is not the same thing as being a pessimistic whiny ass. It's accepting reality.

Step 1 to solving a problem? Acknowledging there's a problem.

The 49ers are 1-3 against the AFCN this year. The Ravens right now are showing right now that other teams in the NFL aren't built to win AFCN football. We aren't built to win AFCN football either right now. That's not a "crap theory" and admitting it doesn't make one a "pessimistic whiny ass".

Again, Burrow when healthy, is 8-3 vs the AFCN.  

We need to get better but this talk of a major transition is not reality.  This defense was Top 5 vs the run last season.  We have the youngest secondary in the league by far.  We didnt have our healthy franchise QB in which the entire offense revolves.  We have never had quality depth across the board.

What do you think they can seriously change?

(01-01-2024, 02:00 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Again, Burrow when healthy, is 8-3 vs the AFCN.  

We need to get better but this talk of a major transition is not reality.  This defense was Top 5 vs the run last season.  We have the youngest secondary in the league by far.  We didnt have our healthy franchise QB in which the entire offense revolves.  We have never had quality depth across the board.

What do you think they can seriously change?

  What about a healthy Burrow against a healthy AFCN starting QB if we're going to start slapping qualifiers on it?

The Mitchell Trubisky Steelers and Mason Rudolph Steelers beat the Bengals: Doesn't count! Unfair!
The Ravens beat the Jake Browning Bengals: Doesn't count! Unfair!
We beat the Anthony Brown Ravens, the Tyler Huntley Ravens last year: Counts! We're awesome! Nothing wrong here!

Just seems like a huge double standard.

There's also no way that 8-3 is correct. 2020 alone he lost 4 AFCN games while healthy... both Browns games, first Ravens game, and the first Steelers game. In 2021 he lost to the Browns again (avoided the second game as a backup bowl). In 2022 even if we magically erase the loss to the Steelers because Burrow wasn't 100% he still lost to the Browns and the Ravens.

That's 7 losses even by your strict not-hurt-Burrow standards. More than double your proposed 3.

(01-01-2024, 01:40 PM)Interceptor Wrote: Build the trenches.

Defense - have a (rotating) commanding front-4; it makes the job easier for everyone else on the field behind them; blitzing is minimized; more zone, zone mixes and brackets

Offense - heavy running, let the oline have fun and get to attack the defense; bring in a huge cowbell RB that can get that 1-yard punch; the long-threat will always be there with Burrow under center, but it would be stupid to not take advantage of that threat without a ground game to set that up

Whoever controls the trenches controls the game.

agreed 150%
IMO
you are our new GM
we have weak DT and DEs and our O line needs more strong as OX type of of Beef 
Add to this no legit speed rushers, slow LBs and dumb Safety play
AFC N will be running over this team for a while if they dont start looking at this diffrently

I agree with others, Burrow is not some average starting QB, he is top 5 in the NFL when healthy. To say ZT can't coach is also crazy. For years fans whined about Marvin Lewis winning in the regular season, then losing in the playoffs. ZT got us to a super bowl and also got us to a second AFC championship game, both game on the road at KC where he went 1-1 in 2 highly competitive games.

This year Tobin gambled on 2 young guys in the secondary, both Hill and Turner had bad years. However, I do think they gained experience for 2024. Having said that, Scott was a bad add in free agency, he needs to go and find a better vet safety to go with Hill. Our DL is also an issue, we need to do as the Browns did, add multiple DL through FA (need a couple of starters) and the draft. Our DL did not do any favors for our LB's or defensive backs, way too long for QB's to throw the ball.

As I mentioned earlier, we have 70 million with no cuts in cap space, while the rest of the AFCN has 58 to 82 million less in cap space. Duke has the money to add FA's, he needs to choose wisely. If so, I see us back in the playoffs in 2024.

As of now, we are predicted to have the 15h pick i the draft. If we lose to the Browns, we may have a 12th pick, which likely we can add an impact player in the draft.

(01-01-2024, 02:25 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:   What about a healthy Burrow against a healthy AFCN starting QB if we're going to start slapping qualifiers on it?

The Mitchell Trubisky Steelers and Mason Rudolph Steelers beat the Bengals: Doesn't count! Unfair!
The Ravens beat the Jake Browning Bengals: Doesn't count! Unfair!
We beat the Anthony Brown Ravens, the Tyler Huntley Ravens last year: Counts! We're awesome! Nothing wrong here!

Just seems like a huge double standard.

There's also no way that 8-3 is correct. 2020 alone he lost 4 AFCN games while healthy... both Browns games, first Ravens game, and the first Steelers game. In 2021 he lost to the Browns again (avoided the second game as a backup bowl). In 2022 even if we magically erase the loss to the Steelers because Burrow wasn't 100% he still lost to the Browns and the Ravens.

That's 7 losses even by your strict not-hurt-Burrow standards. More than double your proposed 3.

Since 2021, Burrow is 8-3 when healthy.  Why would I count 2020?  Totally different team.

I dont care about other teams, I just know that Burrow is a Top 3 QB when heathy and he has proven he can beat anyone.  

If you want to be angry and force feed everyone that the team is the same with or without a healthy Burrow go ahead.  It is wrong but go ahead.  They obviously have improvements to make, but the doom and gloomers look dumb to me without a healthy Burrow.

(01-01-2024, 02:00 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Again, Burrow when healthy, is 8-3 vs the AFCN.  

We need to get better but this talk of a major transition is not reality.  This defense was Top 5 vs the run last season.  We have the youngest secondary in the league by far.  We didnt have our healthy franchise QB in which the entire offense revolves.  We have never had quality depth across the board.

What do you think they can seriously change?

Since 2020 I have him at 9-7 healthy enough to win with 4   of those wins against ravens without Lamar,  burrow is 1-2 head to head 

(01-01-2024, 03:07 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Since 2020 I have him at 9-7 healthy enough to win with 4   of those wins against ravens without Lamar,  burrow is 1-2 head to head 

Caesar said since 2021. 2020 we weren’t very roster ready.

(01-01-2024, 02:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Since 2021, Burrow is 8-3 when healthy.  Why would I count 2020?  Totally different team.

I dont care about other teams, I just know that Burrow is a Top 3 QB when heathy and he has proven he can beat anyone.  

If you want to be angry and force feed everyone that the team is the same with or without a healthy Burrow go ahead.  It is wrong but go ahead.  They obviously have improvements to make, but the doom and gloomers look dumb to me without a healthy Burrow.

It’s just a flawed biased mantra I agree.

(01-01-2024, 02:54 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Since 2021, Burrow is 8-3 when healthy.  Why would I count 2020?  Totally different team.

I dont care about other teams, I just know that Burrow is a Top 3 QB when heathy and he has proven he can beat anyone.  

If you want to be angry and force feed everyone that the team is the same with or without a healthy Burrow go ahead.  It is wrong but go ahead.  They obviously have improvements to make, but the doom and gloomers look dumb to me without a healthy Burrow.

On a Tuesday, when the moon is full, and it's not above 83 degrees or below 19 degrees.  

"In 33 of his possible 66 career games..."

That's what your double qualifier equates to. 

I'm not angry, and I am not force feeding that the team is the same with or without Burrow, that's you just projecting there. I'm just saying this team isn't built to dominate other AFCN teams. We can't block their pass rushers and we can't run the ball effectively. The Browns beat the 49ers with PJ Walker at QB and they have been missing their 2nd Team All-Pro RB, All-Pro RT all year, and their LT most of the year. The Ravens almost beat us in the playoffs with Tyler Huntley while we had a healthy Joe Burrow. We need some changes to this team, got too focused on KC that we stopped looking at the AFCN.

(01-01-2024, 03:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: On a Tuesday, when the moon is full, and it's not above 83 degrees or below 19 degrees.  

"In 33 of his possible 66 career games..."

That's what your double qualifier equates to. 

I'm not angry, and I am not force feeding that the team is the same with or without Burrow, that's you just projecting there. I'm just saying this team isn't built to dominate other AFCN teams. We can't block their pass rushers and we can't run the ball effectively. The Browns beat the 49ers with PJ Walker at QB and they have been missing their 2nd Team All-Pro RB, All-Pro RT all year, and their LT most of the year. The Ravens almost beat us in the playoffs with Tyler Huntley while we had a healthy Joe Burrow. We need some changes to this team, got too focused on KC that we stopped looking at the AFCN.

Yes it is my qualifier.  

My reasoning is an 8-3 record since 2021 when Burrow is healthy and 5-2 postseason when Burrow is healthy. 

The Browns have the #1 defense, the Ravens have the #2 defense.  Dont come at me about my qualifiers when you mention "almost beat us" as your qualifier.

"got too focused on KC that we stopped looking at the AFCN", people keep saying this.  How did we become too focused on KC this year and stop looking at the AFCN?  What moves did we make to prove this theory?  

(01-01-2024, 03:35 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Yes it is my qualifier.  

My reasoning is an 8-3 record since 2021 when Burrow is healthy and 5-2 postseason when Burrow is healthy. 

The Browns have the #1 defense, the Ravens have the #2 defense.  Dont come at me about my qualifiers when you mention "almost beat us" as your qualifier.

"got too focused on KC that we stopped looking at the AFCN", people keep saying this.  How did we become too focused on KC this year and stop looking at the AFCN?  What moves did we make to prove this theory?  

I think that the poor running game has hurt in the division. But you can’t use our poor record this year as an indictment all of a sudden. It’s not relevant after winning it the last 2 years

(01-01-2024, 03:56 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I think that the poor running game has hurt in the division. But you can’t use our poor record this year as an indictment all of a sudden. It’s not relevant after winning it the last 2 years

Our running game wasnt good last year either.... take away the Carolina game and it was real bad.