(01-02-2024, 12:05 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: See, I think his production is easily replaceable with a high draft pick...especially if you have a stud lining up next to that high draft pick. 

I just want upgrades on the DL from Hubbard and BJ Hill - I dont think they are worth the 25 million combined they are making. Sign a HIGH quality interior guy in FA, draft Hill's replacement, then give Murphy more snaps next year. 

Hubbard and Hill I could take or leave. 

You may have their deals confused with another players.  Hill's annual cash is $7.5M for next year, and Hubbard's is $8.1M.  I would definitely like to the see the team draft someone with thoughts of him moving into Hill's role after next season.  However, with DJ Reader's deal set to expire, the bigger fire to put out is at NT, as the team hasn't had anyone near capable of filling his shoes on the roster while he's been out injured.

(01-02-2024, 02:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for the numbers Ochocincos. BJ is still very solid, I would keep him and like you say, replace Carter with a much better pass rushing 3-tech.

Chris Jones, Christian Wilkins, Madabuike etc.

There are a lot of good options going to be out there and we can draft a NT like T'vondre Sweat to hopefully replace Reader. That was a rough injury.

Herein lies the problem...

We realistically shouldn't expect anyone taken after Rd 2 to be an immediate contributor as a rookie, even in a rotation.
So if we're wanting a pass rushing DT, they need to be taken early or get someone in FA.


Given the Bengals have to worry about Reader, Higgins, Boyd, Jonah, and the TE potential departures, we might not get the full wish list of upgrades in the draft/FA as we think should be necessary (1T, 3T, RT, WR2, slot WR, RB, TE, and probably a couple others at OL/DB just to upgrade).

(01-02-2024, 02:57 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Herein lies the problem...

We realistically shouldn't expect anyone taken after Rd 2 to be an immediate contributor as a rookie, even in a rotation.
So if we're wanting a pass rushing DT, they need to be taken early or get someone in FA.


Given the Bengals have to worry about Reader, Higgins, Boyd, Jonah, and the TE potential departures, we might not get the full wish list of upgrades in the draft/FA as we think should be necessary (1T, 3T, RT, WR2, slot WR, RB, TE, and probably a couple others at OL/DB just to upgrade).

Yeah, would have to take a DT early either way it seems, even if we get another one in FA. We need a 3-tech and a run stopping NT.

I think Carter and Tupou proven this year they aren't the answers.

(01-02-2024, 03:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, would have to take a DT early either way it seems, even if we get another one in FA. We need a 3-tech and a run stopping NT.

I think Carter and Tupou proven this year they aren't the answers.

If you end up needing a WR, 2 DTs, a RT, and a TE, how many guys you think are going to contribute immediately if all drafted?

Mentioning that because we might have to settle with some budget FAs or re-sign some of the guys they currently have to multi-year deals.
If you just tag or 1-year extension, that won't solve the long-term problem and those positions should still be addressed early ideally.

(01-02-2024, 02:20 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Thanks for the numbers Ochocincos. BJ is still very solid, I would keep him and like you say, replace Carter with a much better pass rushing 3-tech.

Chris Jones, Christian Wilkins, Madabuike etc.

There are a lot of good options going to be out there and we can draft a NT like T'vondre Sweat to hopefully replace Reader. That was a rough injury.

After watching UW essentially "erase" him on some key runs last night, I'm thinking that he may need a year or two to develop at the NFL level.  Anyway you look at it, the Bengals are likely in the market for a capable NT this offseason, as Tupou and Tufele just aren't getting the job done.

(01-02-2024, 11:46 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: What are our thoughts on BJ Hill now?

I think he's had an OK year...but I REALLY think you could use his salary to open up cap space to impact the defensive line in a more substantial way. He's not worth the 11 million he's making.

Hear's my master plan that will never happen:

Cut BJ Hill and sign Chris Jones. Then draft another DT/NT with your first pick in the draft - trade up if you need to get the guy you are targeting.

The entire interior DL room needs to be flipped this off-season.

Rookie DTs rarely excel in their 1st season.  Even with Jones we still need Hill.

Not paying Tee his high request would be the more applicable trade for Jones.

(01-02-2024, 01:41 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: No Reader next year probably, I prefer not losing Hill also.. sign Hill, Reader will not be ready by start of year so no team is signing him to much, we might work out a 1 year less expensive deal with Reader

Yea, we can't afford to completely re-work our IDL position. I really hope we re-sign Reader, but given his injury and his age, I have my doubts it will happen. I'd also really like to draft a defensive tackle early in the draft, but it isn't all that deep this year at IDL, unfortunately. There are a few stars at the top like Johnny Newton and T'Vondre Sweat, but past that there may not be anyone available at our pick. Sweat may fall if NT is devalued in the draft, and if that's the case I'd be hard pressed not to take him as a Reader replacement, but I'm not sure we get a player better than Hill in the 2nd round or later.

The beat guys reported that some within the team were disappointed with Hill's production after the 2022 season. It seemed like it stayed that at points this season. I believe the Bengals would save around $4 million if they cut Hill, but we have so many DTs that are FAs that I don't see them cutting him at any point. They need to find a quality 3T that can help rotate with Hill and try to repeat the 2021 rotation he had with Larry O. Zach Carter has been a disappointment this season, and I'm not seeing him becoming any kind of answer for us.

(01-02-2024, 05:31 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, we can't afford to completely re-work our IDL position. I really hope we re-sign Reader, but given his injury and his age, I have my doubts it will happen. I'd also really like to draft a defensive tackle early in the draft, but it isn't all that deep this year at IDL, unfortunately. There are a few stars at the top like Johnny Newton and T'Vondre Sweat, but past that there may not be anyone available at our pick. Sweat may fall if NT is devalued in the draft, and if that's the case I'd be hard pressed not to take him as a Reader replacement, but I'm not sure we get a player better than Hill in the 2nd round or later.

Newton seems to be legit.  Sweat was exposed terribly by Washington.  

The only other huge NT would be A&M's McKinnley Jackson, but I doubt he is ready out of the gate.  LT3 of Miami and Michigan's Jenkins are bigger DT3s. 

 I hated seeing Pitt take the Wisconsin kid Burton. He has an 80.5 pass rush and overall 77.5 grade as a rookie this season.

(01-03-2024, 02:38 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Newton seems to be legit.  Sweat was exposed terribly by Washington.  

The only other huge NT would be A&M's McKinnley Jackson, but I doubt he is ready out of the gate.  LT3 of Miami and Michigan's Jenkins are bigger DT3s. 

 I hated seeing Pitt take the Wisconsin kid Burton. He has an 80.5 pass rush and overall 77.5 grade as a rookie this season.

I wouldn't say T'Vondre Sweat got "exposed" as much as it told us he's not going to be a great pass rusher especially when they move him out to 3T. Sweat is probably going to be closer to a Michael Pierce.

I'm a McKinnley Jackson fan good size natural leverage decent length. The Senior Bowl is going to be big for him because A&M didn't allow him to rush they rotated him out. As for NFL ready Jackson will be as ready as Sweat and Nazir Stackhouse its just can they become more than a rotational nose tackle?


I will say I'm not excited about any rookie nose tackle to be getting 800+ snaps for the Bengals in 2024...

(01-02-2024, 03:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If you end up needing a WR, 2 DTs, a RT, and a TE, how many guys you think are going to contribute immediately if all drafted?

Mentioning that because we might have to settle with some budget FAs or re-sign some of the guys they currently have to multi-year deals.
If you just tag or 1-year extension, that won't solve the long-term problem and those positions should still be addressed early ideally.

We will have to use Free Agency to fill some of the holes no question. We have been pretty good at drafting WR's so I would go there
in the Draft early along with DT. Bring back Hudson and Sample at TE and draft a TE in the mid rounds etc.

(01-02-2024, 04:10 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: After watching UW essentially "erase" him on some key runs last night, I'm thinking that he may need a year or two to develop at the NFL level.  Anyway you look at it, the Bengals are likely in the market for a capable NT this offseason, as Tupou and Tufele just aren't getting the job done.

I didn't get to watch the game as it was on espn, bastids.

Washington actually has a few OL I like, but erasing Sweat in the biggest of games isn't a good sign for him.

(01-03-2024, 02:38 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Newton seems to be legit.  Sweat was exposed terribly by Washington.  

The only other huge NT would be A&M's McKinnley Jackson, but I doubt he is ready out of the gate.  LT3 of Miami and Michigan's Jenkins are bigger DT3s. 

 I hated seeing Pitt take the Wisconsin kid Burton. He has an 80.5 pass rush and overall 77.5 grade as a rookie this season.

Benton is who I wanted the last Draft myself. Hate it when the stealers grab one of my favorite picks.