Bell set the tone in the secondary. As did Apple (in a lil brother starting fights because the big brothers will jump in kinda way).

I feel the same way about Perine. In those big games it was Perine setting the tone with stiff arms KC. Tough runs up the middle when they knew it was coming.

Bates, we had long knew they weren’t going to pay. His year in ATL doesn’t change anything. Bell we do miss the intangible.

Not sure we are any closer replacing Bates role on D.

(01-02-2024, 12:53 AM)jj22 Wrote: Bell set the tone in the secondary. As did Apple (in a lil brother starting fights because the big brothers will jump in kinda way).

I feel the same way about Perine. In those big games it was Perine setting the tone with stiff arms KC. Tough runs up the middle when they knew it was coming.

Bates, we had long knew they weren’t going to pay. His year in ATL doesn’t change anything. Bell we do miss the intangible.

Not sure we are any closer replacing Bates role on D.

Depends upon Dax taking the next step, if he doesnt shine next season he could very well take Hiltons role in 2025.  I can see him excelling by being in the box more often.

I think Lou will still get some HC considerations. There will be a good chunk openings coming next Monday. However, I won't be surprised to see him come back. I truly think he was devastated to lose Bates and Bell this past season. Also, losing two good safeties and only adding Nick Scott was definitely a detriment. Plus, Chido was hindered coming back from the ACL. Lou had to do something he doesn't like and that's throw rookies to the fire. I could see things being a little better next year with 4 of the 5 starting spots seemingly locked up with CTB, Turner, Hilton, and Dax. I like Battle, but I'm not ready to just hand him a starting job.

The DL definitely needs help. Trey is our only true pass rusher. Hubbard is okay, but is much better at defending the run. BJ Hill looked better this year than last, but he still has his limitations. Zach Carter has not developed at all and has looked like a liability. Murphy had some flashes, but he's still a question mark. I'm hoping we bring back Reader, but between his age and injury, I can see the team going the Vonn Bell route. Offer a short deal, but he finds more money elsewhere.

The LBs were definitely disappointing this year. It's weird because Pratt and Logan made some great plays, but they also looked out of place and just slower overall at points this year. Just a weird situation all around with them.

(01-01-2024, 01:43 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Still 25 points and 373 yards no matter how it came. Both are above the Chief's season average. They allowed the Chiefs to score on 7 out of their 9 drives.

Those two totals on average would give you the 31st overall and 28th scoring defense for a year.


- - - - -

This year the defense is..

31st Overall
29th Passing
32nd Passing YPA (a HUGE gap between them and 31st)
26th Rushing
31st Rushing YPC
21st Scoring
26th on 3rd Down

The defense is way worse than it has any right to be with that many paid and highly drafted guys on it. This isn't growing pains from young guys, this is just bad.

As bad as the offense has been, it's still better than the defense...
22nd Overall
11th Passing
18th Passing YPA
32nd Rushing
27th Rushing YPC
20th Scoring
18th on 3rd Down

Just curious, how far behind 31st were they in rushing offense? 

(01-02-2024, 04:05 PM)Wyche Wrote: Just curious, how far behind 31st were they in rushing offense? 

They have allowed 8.2 yards per pass attempt. The 31st team is allowing 7.8 yards per pass attempt.

If you took a similar .4 away from the 31st team they'd be tied for 23rd. That's how big of a gap it is. Lol

8.2 is the most allowed by any team since the 2020 Lions, who fired their HC mid-season and then both Coordinators in the offseason and the DC hasn't been a DC since.

(01-02-2024, 12:36 AM)Whacked Wrote: Would it be fair to extend some sort of intangible value to Bates and Von Bell that goes undiscussed?

Maybe they were the leaders of the D?

Perhaps it was them that galvanized the D the last few years. Kind of like Ray Lewis and Ed Reed (or whoever) did with the Rat Turds. They made everyone step up and play better. Maybe Bates and VB were the heart and soul of the D.

Trey seems to be the only one who plays possessed every week.

(01-02-2024, 12:44 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I don't think Trey is considered a major leader, he doesn't talk much.  

With DJ Reader, Hubbard, Wilson and Pratt it would be a crying shame if these men, these professionals, are not performing because a couple of defensive backs are not hyping them up or were considered the heart and soul of the defense... just my humble opinion.

There are serious execution problems.

Just my opinion, but I think where we missed JB and VB was getting proper alignment and assignments on the back end. They had a lot of experience, especially VB. They kind of QB'd the secondary is my thoughts. Apple is an underrated loss too. All that said, you have to hope experience helps these young guys grow, and learn from their mistakes. There have been flashes, but also bad angles and blown coverages. Growing pains....

(01-02-2024, 04:10 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: They are allowed 8.2 yards per pass attempt. The 31st team is allowing 7.8 yards per pass attempt.

If you took a similar .4 away from the 31st team they'd be tied for 23rd. That's how big of a gap it is. Lol

8.2 is the most allowed by any team since the 2020 Lions, who fired their HC mid-season and then both Coordinators in the offseason.

Wow, that's a crazy number. I was looking for our rushing offense at 32nd vs the number 31st rushing offense. Is it as bad as our rush defense?

(01-02-2024, 04:17 PM)Wyche Wrote: Wow, that's a crazy number. I was looking for our rushing offense at 32nd vs the number 31st rushing offense. Is it as bad as our rush defense?

The rushing offense gap isn't big, like 3.3 yards per game behind 31st. Honestly I would consider our rushing offense to be better than the 31st because while we're rushing for a really bad 3.8 yards per carry, they're rushing for an atrocious 3.4 yards per carry.

Our rush offense is worse than our rush defense, but both are terrible. I guess the bright side on defense is at least we're not Denver who is allowing 5.0 yards per rush, just "merely" 4.7 for us. Lol

(01-02-2024, 04:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Just my opinion, but I think where we missed JB and VB was getting proper alignment and assignments on the back end. They had a lot of experience, especially VB. They kind of QB'd the secondary is my thoughts. Apple is an underrated loss too. All that said, you have to hope experience helps these young guys grow, and learn from their mistakes. There have been flashes, but also bad angles and blown coverages. Growing pains....

James Rapien talked to CTB after the Chiefs game about the long pass to Rice. CTB noted that their was a communication error, which isn't unommon, but I guess CTB went further and noted that their have been communication issues all season. It's not too surprising because we don't have that leader in the secondary like Bates and Bell. I still believe in Dax and think he's still our FS of the future, but we need someone else back there. We can't sign people like Nick Scott and expect them to just immediately fill the void in the secondary. 

(01-03-2024, 12:15 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: James Rapien talked to CTB after the Chiefs game about the long pass to Rice. CTB noted that their was a communication error, which isn't unommon, but I guess CTB went further and noted that their have been communication issues all season. It's not too surprising because we don't have that leader in the secondary like Bates and Bell. I still believe in Dax and think he's still our FS of the future, but we need someone else back there. We can't sign people like Nick Scott and expect them to just immediately fill the void in the secondary. 

Yeah, I initially thought CTB just got cooked. However, watching it back, Cincinnati rotated late into a cover two look. Awuzie bailed to deep half and Dax is supposed to cover the other but he bailed to cover the same half that Awuzie did. Rice went right past CTB. And the tough part about it is that Rice wasn't supposed to go deep there. He immediately noticed Dax's mistake and freestyled his route. Mahomes also saw it and connected. 

That touchdown was completely off-script. 

(01-03-2024, 12:15 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: James Rapien talked to CTB after the Chiefs game about the long pass to Rice. CTB noted that their was a communication error, which isn't unommon, but I guess CTB went further and noted that their have been communication issues all season. It's not too surprising because we don't have that leader in the secondary like Bates and Bell. I still believe in Dax and think he's still our FS of the future, but we need someone else back there. We can't sign people like Nick Scott and expect them to just immediately fill the void in the secondary. 

If these are mental issues I have a ton of faith in Dax and Battle, they are young guys but very intelligent. I hope they take a huge step next season.  Dax may be better suited in taking Hilton's role in 2025...

(01-02-2024, 04:22 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The rushing offense gap isn't big, like 3.3 yards per game behind 31st. Honestly I would consider our rushing offense to be better than the 31st because while we're rushing for a really bad 3.8 yards per carry, they're rushing for an atrocious 3.4 yards per carry.

Our rush offense is worse than our rush defense, but both are terrible. I guess the bright side on defense is at least we're not Denver who is allowing 5.0 yards per rush, just "merely" 4.7 for us. Lol

Wow, lol. Thanks for the numbers. 3.4 is really bad, not that ours is great, but damn.

(01-03-2024, 12:15 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: James Rapien talked to CTB after the Chiefs game about the long pass to Rice. CTB noted that their was a communication error, which isn't unommon, but I guess CTB went further and noted that their have been communication issues all season. It's not too surprising because we don't have that leader in the secondary like Bates and Bell. I still believe in Dax and think he's still our FS of the future, but we need someone else back there. We can't sign people like Nick Scott and expect them to just immediately fill the void in the secondary. 

That makes a ton of sense. Agree on guys like Nick Scott. If you're going to sign someone to fill that vet role, they need to at least be decent. Just speculating, but I don't think they thought Bell would leave, and got caught with their pants down there. They had to scramble to find someone.

Man, how absence makes the heart grow fonder. Everybody missing Bates, Bell, Perine and Apple.
When Jesse Bates was here all we heard was he was overpaid and missed too many tackles. During his "head funk" period people were lining up to pull the gallows lever.
Bell will always have a place in my heart for his hit on Shit Schuster that set the tone and put the league on notice that this wasn't your daddy's Bengals. I really wanted him re-signed, but I clearly remember a lot of "He's getting too old" comments.
And Apple, despite his high level of play, more people wanted him gone than Covid.
Perine? Another of my favorites, but there were clearly people after his head for not making a diving catch during the Super Bowl.
But now the team is a bunch of idiots for letting them go.
Of the bunch, if it were up to me and I had to let one go, it would have been Bates, because he did not always play up to his ability. Playoff Jesse and Regular Season Jesse weren't even close to the same player. And that tells me he wasn't giving 100% during the regular season.

Dax Hill will be better than Bates IMO. Give the kid some time, it's just his 2nd year and he was playing numerous positions his first year. Battle will come on strong I think. Chase Brown appears to be the real deal and can break a long run at any given moment he is given the ball. CTB and Awuzie > Apple and Awuzie.

The future is bright.

(01-03-2024, 10:35 AM)Wyche Wrote: Wow, lol. Thanks for the numbers. 3.4 is really bad, not that ours is great, but damn.



That makes a ton of sense. Agree on guys like Nick Scott. If you're going to sign someone to fill that vet role, they need to at least be decent. Just speculating, but I don't think they thought Bell would leave, and got caught with their pants down there. They had to scramble to find someone.

I do believe they expected to keep at least 1 of the 2 Safties.

(01-03-2024, 11:12 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: I do believe they expected to keep at least 1 of the 2 Safties.

They thought they would be able to re-sign Bell. He got offered more than they expected.

(01-03-2024, 01:08 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, I initially thought CTB just got cooked. However, watching it back, Cincinnati rotated late into a cover two look. Awuzie bailed to deep half and Dax is supposed to cover the other but he bailed to cover the same half that Awuzie did. Rice went right past CTB. And the tough part about it is that Rice wasn't supposed to go deep there. He immediately noticed Dax's mistake and freestyled his route. Mahomes also saw it and connected. 

That touchdown was completely off-script. 

Wasn't a touchdown. I know you probably just miss spoke there but we held them to a field goal. The defense wasn't good. But they weren't the reason we lost the game. But I guess the offense gets a pass with Browning. Although it seems that's where we really got out coached.

(01-02-2024, 01:10 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Depends upon Dax taking the next step, if he doesnt shine next season he could very well take Hiltons role in 2025.  I can see him excelling by being in the box more often.

Dax kind of regressed as the year went on.

He doesn't seem like he processes plays fast enough and he's good straight-line, but if he has to adjust he fails.

The long TD that appeared to be CTB's fault, was really Hill's for not reading what was happening and coming over top for instance.

The whole HC discussion is interesting. Teams hire coordinators with good defenses or offenses. But, many times those teams have top players.

So they put that coach on a new team, and as a HC they're not working directly with those units as they have a coordinator. So really skills like communication and leadership come into play.

And they people wonder why so many wash out.

Lou will keep getting interviews if he's viewed as a good leader and communicator.

(01-03-2024, 11:18 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Wasn't a touchdown. I know you probably just miss spoke there but we held them to a field goal. The defense wasn't good. But they weren't the reason we lost the game. But I guess the offense gets a pass with Browning. Although it seems that's where we really got out coached.

Ope, thanks for the correction. 

(01-03-2024, 11:18 AM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: Wasn't a touchdown. I know you probably just miss spoke there but we held them to a field goal. The defense wasn't good. But they weren't the reason we lost the game. But I guess the offense gets a pass with Browning. Although it seems that's where we really got out coached.

I don't think we scored a single point in the 2nd half after scoring what 17 1st half points? That's the reason we lost.

Had we moved the ball better, the defense looks better too.