(01-03-2024, 01:27 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: I doubt we see Chase and Tee.

I am afraid we have seen the last of Tee. 

I would rather keep Tee. Chase is a speedster, but like Green, with time or an injury, they get slower and easily covered by the D. Tee is super tall and has good speed and athletism... Chase rn is at his prime though, so
...

(01-02-2024, 07:17 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: I hear you Kev, and I'm there with you.  I fully appreciate the logic and reason of those wanting a loss to improve our draft position because it does makes sense.  But, I never much saw fandom being about logic and reason, not for me at least, so I can't root for a loss, and especially a loss to the Browns.

Same here.....if going out and beating the Browns is good enough for a dinged up Ja'Marr Chase, then it's good enough for me. Let's go Bengals, get the dub, finish with a winning record. Take a little break, then get your asses to work improving. There's a lot of that to do going into 2024.

(01-03-2024, 01:27 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: I doubt we see Chase and Tee.

I am afraid we have seen the last of Tee. 

Chase says he's playing. He's adamant about it. Unless the staff says no, I think he plays. 

(01-05-2024, 12:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: Chase says he's playing. He's adamant about it. Unless the staff says no, I think he plays. 

He needs to get some revenge for that "we lost to some elves" game.  What a fun way to bookend this season, eh?

(01-05-2024, 12:48 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He needs to get some revenge for that "we lost to some elves" game.  What a fun way to bookend this season, eh?

Lmao, hadn't considered that!

(01-05-2024, 12:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: Lmao, hadn't considered that!

You can always count on me to keep track of the stats that really matter.

(01-05-2024, 01:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You can always count on me to keep track of the stats that really matter.

I know that's right broham!

(01-03-2024, 05:19 PM)casear2727 Wrote: It is a statistical fact that players drafted in higher slots have better careers overall.  Sure there will be outliers, but I would have thought that EVERY fan would know this?

I am surely not alone in remembering Frank Ragnow, awesome center for years, being taken immediately before us by the Lions. We settled on Billy Price, if that doesn't convince anyone, nothing will. 

Yeah, Frank Ragnow getting picked right in front of us still hurts and that is why I don't really care if we win this last game.

I am also of course with Ochocincos on this and just saying screw the stealers, don't want them getting in so go Bills and Jags.

The one thing I am rooting for most in this game is Trey Hendrickson and him being the sack leader this season... 

Get at least a couple sacks Trey, make sure Twatt don't get it.

Cannot stand the Browns though, so if we win fine and we have another winning record under Zac and show we can beat these 
bastids even if they are not playing all their starters, neither will we I am sure. I honestly think looking back that if we would of 
started healthy players instead of hurt ones a lot this season (whether they were the best players or not) we would of made the 
Playoffs this year. I was wrong about starting Burrow early in the season and others were right in starting Browning and letting 
Burrow rest up.

(01-03-2024, 09:22 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I would rather keep Tee. Chase is a speedster, but like Green, with time or an injury, they get slower and easily covered by the D. Tee is super tall and has good speed and athletism... Chase rn is at his prime though, so
...

This isnt correct.  Tee's lack of speed and athleticism are what pushed him into the 2nd round.  People comparing him to AJ Brown on Twitter are sorely mistaken when it comes to elite physical attributes.  

(01-03-2024, 05:19 PM)casear2727 Wrote: It is a statistical fact that players drafted in higher slots have better careers overall.  Sure there will be outliers, but I would have thought that EVERY fan would know this?

I am surely not alone in remembering Frank Ragnow, awesome center for years, being taken immediately before us by the Lions. We settled on Billy Price, if that doesn't convince anyone, nothing will. 

Ive never seen any real study that gives a real measurable difference of moving    2 to 3 placements around middle of draft,  and   play the game to win that is what coache's and players do for a living
 I love revisionst history. Look back at draft projections in 2018 and  you will find that price, ragnow and even  Wynn from Georgia were picked by different draft sites as top center ,  bengals wanted ragnow but stated price was right there as a happy 2nd choose. Anyone that says different does not remember the draft projections then.

(01-05-2024, 11:47 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Ive never seen any real study that gives a real measurable difference of moving    2 to 3 placements around middle of draft,  and   play the game to win that is what coache's and players do for a living
 I love revisionst history. Look back at draft projections in 2018 and  you will find that price, ragnow and even  Wynn from Georgia were picked by different draft sites as top center ,  bengals wanted ragnow but stated price was right there as a happy 2nd choose. Anyone that says different does not remember the draft projections then.

The fact that you havent seen any studies is not a quality rebuttal, you often miss on things you haven't seen.   Besides, what random "draft experts" have to say pre-draft doesnt really matter, see Darnell Washington last season.  Also, many mix up their ratings on purpose in order to fill content and attract visitors.

The information is not hard to find nor is it difficult to understand.  There is a reason teams try to trade up for a potentially better prospect.   If it was as random as you and Nepa suggest then it really wouldnt be that big of a deal.  

Im not really interested in debating such a common sense topic.

(01-03-2024, 09:22 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: I would rather keep Tee. Chase is a speedster, but like Green, with time or an injury, they get slower and easily covered by the D. Tee is super tall and has good speed and athletism... Chase rn is at his prime though, so
...

Tee wins with size, length, routes, and usually stong hands. He's an excellent eoute runner that is very good at shielding off defenders on the sideline. In traffic and on the sideline he uses his length and hands to snag balls out of the air. This year Tee's had some issues with drops and a couple mental errors earlier in the season. 

Tee Higgins is a very good receiver whos game translates to most offenses. I don't think he will have any trouble going to most teams and carving out a similar stat line as he has previously in Cincy even as a "#1". I don't see his stats being much more than that 70 1100 range though... maybe more TDs. 

(01-05-2024, 08:38 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This isnt correct.  Tee's lack of speed and athleticism are what pushed him into the 2nd round.  People comparing him to AJ Brown on Twitter are sorely mistaken when it comes to elite physical attributes.  

Yes, crazy talk. Plus saying Chase is just a speedster sure is an insult. Dude can do everything except run the ball like Deebo it seems
which we have tried and teams are on to. Chase has incredible balance, quicks, deep speed, amazing body adjustment and is the most
physical WR in the league besides Deebo IMO. He still reminds me of Steve Smith, the dude that used to be on the Panthers, but Ja'Marr
is bigger with better balance.

Tee is a good, big WR that uses his length well and is great on the sideline and runs great routes for a big WR. But he is not near as 
special of a WR as Ja'Marr is and he is banged up a ton.

Tee's RAS is about as low as an NFL WR can get when it comes to athletic ability. He wins on intangibles that Synric detailed perfectly.

(01-06-2024, 12:17 AM)casear2727 Wrote: The fact that you havent seen any studies is not a quality rebuttal, you often miss on things you haven't seen.   Besides, what random "draft experts" have to say pre-draft doesnt really matter, see Darnell Washington last season.  Also, many mix up their ratings on purpose in order to fill content and attract visitors.

The information is not hard to find nor is it difficult to understand.  There is a reason teams try to trade up for a potentially better prospect.   If it was as random as you and Nepa suggest then it really wouldnt be that big of a deal.  

Im not really interested in debating such a common sense topic.

So where is your stats that back up your point that there is major difference between few spots mid draft.. you cherry pick Price as the holy grail i guess... and since there was a split on top center coming out in that draft some teams might have taken Price over Ragnow in that position, it show more a point of not so much where you pick in the draft but picking the right position players in the draft. Great example in our history is picking Ross two spots in front of Mahomes, so here we had the higher pick and picked wrong

(01-06-2024, 06:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So where is your stats that back up your point that there is major difference between few spots mid draft.. you cherry pick Price as the holy grail i guess... and since there was a split on top center coming out in that draft some teams might have taken Price over Ragnow in that position, it show more a point of not so much where you pick in the draft but picking the right position players in the draft. Great example in our history is picking Ross two spots in front of Mahomes, so here we had the higher pick and picked wrong

Picking the right player is always a good thing but who you have to choose from matter just as much.  Picking the best player of good ones after excellent ones are gone doesnt help.

Thank you for proving my point with John Ross.

Since Ross was drafted these are the WRs taken in the Top 10

Garrett Wilson
Drake London
Chris Olave
Chase
Waddle
Davonta Smith
Corey Davis
Mike Williams
John Ross

Since 2017 teams have 89% chance of drafting a productive to super star WR in the Top 10.  Only 1 player since then was a total bust, and we chose him.  If you do the same with players further down the number of stars drops, and less productive/busts increases.

(01-06-2024, 06:10 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So where is your stats that back up your point that there is major difference between few spots mid draft.. you cherry pick Price as the holy grail i guess... and since there was a split on top center coming out in that draft some teams might have taken Price over Ragnow in that position, it show more a point of not so much where you pick in the draft but picking the right position players in the draft. Great example in our history is picking Ross two spots in front of Mahomes, so here we had the higher pick and picked wrong

Let's focus on one of our biggest issues for years, the Oline.

Over the last 10 years, an average of 6 linemen per year were selected in the first round. Of the 61 first round picks, 10 went on to be First Team All-Pros. While this 16.4% rate of finding an elite lineman might seem low, consider that this is two-thirds of all of the All-Pro linemen drafted in the last decade. Two second-round picks went on to become All-Pros. After that, just 3 players over the final five rounds of the draft became All-Pros.

When the criteria is changed from All-Pros to Pro Bowlers, the results are still weighted heavily towards the first two days of the draft. Of the 32 players that went on to make a Pro Bowl, more than half (18) were first-round picks. The second day of the draft accounted for nearly a third of the Pro Bowlers with 5 each from the second and third rounds. The third day of the draft, rounds 4-7, produced just 4 Pro Bowlers in total.


(Edit) Not sure why attachments are not working, I'll try the embed:









The further back we drop in the first is magnified each round afterwards, the comp picks of each previous round make it so much worse.

As this post has turned into Draft Section, I repeat BEAT BROWNS.

I want to see Bengals WIN this game. I'm tired of Bengals losing so much to the Browns last few years.

I want to see Browning lead this team to one more win and finish with a winning record. I want to see big days by Mixon, Chase and Chase and Higgins and Boyd. Big days by Hendickson and Defense and McPherson

When this game is over, let the Bengal Fans in THE JUNGLE go home with a WIN. Let the Bengals players walk off the field with some PRIDE with a WIN. Instead of Bengals once again watching Browns walk of the field celebrating beating our Bengals.

To those who say out of the play-offs and nothing to play for. This is a Home game in Cincinnati against Cleveland. You forget playing for Pride and Self Respect. The Bengals have lost way too many games to the Browns last few years. Beat Cleveland in Cincinnati and finish with a WIN and a WIINING RECORD...For the Players, but also for the Season Ticket Holding Bengals Fans in THE JUNGLE.

Also avoid the AFC North Sweep...A loss to Cleveland means the Bengals didn't win a division game.

Over the years there have been times Ohio State or Michigan had bad seasons, but they redeemed themselves by winning the Ohio State / Michigan game. So let The Bengals win this Battle of Ohio in Cincinnati to finish the season with some pride.

There is no pride in tanking to move up in draft from 9 wins to 8 wins. That is weak. No pride in that. When Raiders play long time rivals Chiefs, they play them tough. Tanking for the draft is never considered. Cincinnati vs Cleveland is a rival game. BEAT BROWNS

At games end, I want to see Browning walk off the field in victory, having won 4 games and not a bad job in replacing Burrow.

No real Bengals Fan wants to see Cleveland celebrating another win over our Bengals.

Now people, Browning was winning until he had to play at Pittsburgh and at Kansas City, 2 tough road games always. Do not end on a losing streak. Finish with a Win in THE JUNGLE.



GO BENGALS....BEAT CLEVELAND....WE DON'T LIVE IN CLEVELAND-Sam Wyche

I really want this WIN. I didn't like Bengals chances at Kansas City, although Bengals played Chiefs tough. My hope was come back to Cincinnati and BEAT CLEVELAND. I want this WIN.

(01-07-2024, 05:21 AM)kevin Wrote: As this post has turned into Draft Section, I repeat BEAT BROWNS.

I want to see Bengals WIN this game.   I'm tired of Bengals losing so much to the Browns last few years.

I want to see Browning lead this team to one more win and finish with a winning record.  I want to see big days by Mixon, Chase and Chase and Higgins and Boyd. Big days by Hendickson and Defense and McPherson

When this game is over, let the Bengal Fans in THE JUNGLE go home with a WIN.  Let the Bengals players walk off the field with some PRIDE with a WIN.  Instead of Bengals once again watching Browns walk of the field celebrating beating our Bengals.

To those who say out of the play-offs and nothing to play for.  This is a Home game in Cincinnati against Cleveland.  You forget playing for Pride and Self Respect.  The Bengals have lost way too many games to the Browns last few years.  Beat Cleveland in Cincinnati and finish with a WIN and a WIINING RECORD...For the Players, but also for the Season Ticket Holding Bengals Fans in THE JUNGLE.  

Also avoid  the AFC North Sweep...A loss to Cleveland means the Bengals didn't win a division game.

Over the years there have been times Ohio State or Michigan had bad seasons, but they redeemed themselves by winning the Ohio State / Michigan game.  So let The Bengals win this Battle of Ohio in Cincinnati to finish the season with some pride.

There is no pride in tanking to move up in draft from 9 wins to 8 wins.  That is weak.  No pride in that.  When Raiders play long time rivals Chiefs, they play them tough. Tanking for the draft is never considered.  Cincinnati vs Cleveland is a rival game.  BEAT BROWNS

At games end, I want to see Browning walk off the field in victory, having won  4 games and not a bad job in replacing Burrow.

No real Bengals Fan wants to see Cleveland celebrating another win over our Bengals.

Now people, Browning was winning until he had to play at Pittsburgh and at Kansas City, 2 tough road games always. Do not end on a losing streak. Finish with a Win in THE JUNGLE.



GO BENGALS....BEAT CLEVELAND....WE DON'T LIVE IN CLEVELAND-Sam Wyche

I really want this WIN.  I didn't like Bengals chances at Kansas City, although Bengals played Chiefs tough.  My hope was come back to Cincinnati and BEAT CLEVELAND.   I want this WIN.

We get it Kev.  

I agree Kevin. For those prioritizing draft picks, we are not talking about moving into the top five or top ten. We are talking about moving from 17th (assuming the Steelers are eliminated and Bengals win) to realistically perhaps 14th or 15th if the Bengals lose and most other games break favorably. This is the result of the fact that the Bengals lose all the draft tiebreakers, since the Bengals had the strongest SOS. (I know the Bengals mathematically could get to 13, but that seems very unlikely.)

There is so much variety available when you draft in the teens to address the Bengals many needs that a few slots won't make much of a difference, if at all. But it would be big for the Bengals and fan's psyche to end with at least one win in the AFCN and a winning record. It would be especially deflating all off-season to know the Bengals lost to the Browns backups and at home.

I understand the point of view of those who've moved on to the draft once the Bengals were eliminated. But this is the Cleveland Browns we are talking about and the chance to avoid a 0-6 division record and losing season. And at home.