(01-09-2024, 12:22 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: I like the Battle pick at the time & like it even more now.

I guess we were in the minority. I was satisfied with that pick in that round myself.

(01-09-2024, 12:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I'm not ready to throw in the towel on Hill yet either.

Battle sure seems to be a good en in the making. Perhaps our Safety woes aren't quite as bad moving forward as it seems??

Not to mention Tycen Anderson looked pretty good prior to his injury. Everybody is always all doom and gloom around here. (Well, not everybody)

(01-09-2024, 12:12 PM)Sled21 Wrote: It was really his first year getting to play just the safety position. People expect too much. He is going to be a great player.

I don't buy your argument.  

Dax played safety in college.

Jordan Battle's first year playing the safety position in the NFL was a success.   Jessie Bates played well in his first year as an NFL safety.  Neither were first round picks.

Dax is not good.   He has the physical tools, but he makes a lot of mental errors.   That is not easy to fix.

(01-09-2024, 12:56 PM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: I don't buy your argument.  

Dax played safety in college.

Jordan Battle's first year playing the safety position in the NFL was a success.   Jessie Bates played well in his first year as an NFL safety.  Neither were first round picks.

Dax is not good.   He has the physical tools, but he makes a lot of mental errors.   That is not easy to fix.

Dax played a hybrid of S and nickel in college and was lined up in the slot most of the time.  He wasn't a true S.

He also wasn't really done any favors when they had him playing CB.  He could have really done with a year of starting experience next to a quality vet like Bell.  

(01-09-2024, 12:03 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I remember being super disappointed when we picked him over Dawand Jones.

"We don't even need a safety" I said. "We have Nick Scott! This guy is going to ride the bench for at least 2 years!"

This is why I don't take immediate post draft reactions too seriously. None of us know shit.

LOL, I had the same reaction. I wanted Jones or the TE from Georgia. Battle was our best rookie by a mile, and one of the best in the league according to PFF. 

I doubt we give up on Dax. He is learning a new position. But I do wonder if he is better in the box or closer to the line. Just not a CF/QB of the D type like Bates. 

Does anyone have a breakdown of the FS/SS snaps for Dax & Battle? I know Lou initially was talking about the Scott/Hill pairing's versatility in that both guys could play both role's. Did that continue with Hill/Battle? 

(01-09-2024, 01:19 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: LOL, I had the same reaction. I wanted Jones or the TE from Georgia. Battle was our best rookie by a mile, and one of the best in the league according to PFF. 

I doubt we give up on Dax. He is learning a new position. But I do wonder if he is better in the box or closer to the line. Just not a CF/QB of the D type like Bates. 

Does anyone have a breakdown of the FS/SS snaps for Dax & Battle? I know Lou initially was talking about the Scott/Hill pairing's versatility in that both guys could play both role's. Did that continue with Hill/Battle? 

I don't know, Dax looks great on cover 2 plays and he is quite rangey (remember the Arizona PS game last year).

I think something shifted on D in the 2nd half and he started struggling as a result: he was on fire the first half of the year, with his INTs and great blitzes.

Maybe in a few years we can gripe about losing both Dax and Battle as it will feel similar to losing Bell and Bates!

To the OP's point, it was fun watching Battle after the Scott got benched.

(01-09-2024, 12:56 PM)Mgbrown66 Wrote: I don't buy your argument.  

Dax played safety in college.

Jordan Battle's first year playing the safety position in the NFL was a success.   Jessie Bates played well in his first year as an NFL safety.  Neither were first round picks.

Dax is not good.   He has the physical tools, but he makes a lot of mental errors.   That is not easy to fix.

Well shit, you're right, there's absolutely no difference between playing safety in college and playing it in the NFL. What was I thinking...

(01-08-2024, 11:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Not only was he the Bengals' highest graded defender, Jordan Battle had PFF's 5th highest safety grade of any rookie in the last 10 years. pic.twitter.com/veKVT8oxoD

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) January 8, 2024

Jordan Battle received a 90.0 PFF grade in week 18 after collecting 3 tackles, a sack, an INT and allowing 1 catch on 4 targets.

The Bengals rookie ended up being the highest graded defender for Cincinnati (82.5) after playing 524 snaps this year.

Of ALL rookie defenders this… pic.twitter.com/HmNeIfpT96

— Goodberry (@JoeGoodberry) January 8, 2024

I thought Dax was going to be our stud safety, and was kind of lukewarm about this pick tbh. He looks like the real deal though.

(01-08-2024, 11:49 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Jordan Battle in his last 3 games:

66 coverage snaps
7 targets
4 receptions allowed, 29 yards
1 INT
27.4 passer rating allowed

? pic.twitter.com/vep9dgd2uY

— PFF CIN Bengals (@PFF_Bengals) January 8, 2024

Great stuff Nicomo, Jordan Battle is a great tackler with great instincts and I do think Daxton Hill will be a great Safety on down the 
line with the stuff you cannot teach with his athleticism and raw talent. I also like Tycen Anderson, too bad he went down this season 
but he should be back and just get better. Move on from Nick Scott please...

An inside look at what a game week looks like for @JordanMBattle ⬇️ pic.twitter.com/PIkUggaQ2x

— Cincinnati Bengals (@Bengals) January 17, 2024

(01-09-2024, 12:29 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I see what you did there  Yes it is, but my point is they expect too much too quickly from a 2nd year player who did not get to focus in his position in year 1. My expectations for Hill come from his athleticism and intelligence. I have little doubt the light will come on.

It doesn’t help a guy drafted a couple rounds later in his rookie year undoubtedly outplayed hill. I don’t know if it’s expecting too much too quickly when u got a rookie right next to em doing it

(01-17-2024, 02:35 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: It doesn’t  help a guy drafted a couple rounds later in his rookie year undoubtedly outplayed hill.  I don’t know if it’s expecting too much too quickly when u got a rookie right next to em doing it

Daxton Hill got the majority of the post or single high safety reps in the Bengals heavy cover 3 defense. His area of responsibility was alot and the post is also the position Hill played the least in college. Bengals fans were spoiled by Jessie Bates who is the best single high safety in the NFL his vision and instincts for patern recognition are incredible. 

(01-17-2024, 02:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Daxton Hill got the majority of the post or single high safety reps in the Bengals heavy cover 3 defense. His area of responsibility was alot and the post is also the position Hill played the least in college. Bengals fans were spoiled by Jessie Bates who is the best single high safety in the NFL his vision and instincts for patern recognition are incredible. 

Not to mention Battle came out of Alabama, which has a history of putting DB's into the league ready to play.

(01-17-2024, 02:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Daxton Hill got the majority of the post or single high safety reps in the Bengals heavy cover 3 defense. His area of responsibility was alot and the post is also the position Hill played the least in college. Bengals fans were spoiled by Jessie Bates who is the best single high safety in the NFL his vision and instincts for patern recognition are incredible. 

Well said Synric. I gave Bates criticism for his tackling and effort at times here, but as a single high Safety he was as good as there is
and just got better in Atlanta. Dax had so much more on his plate than Jordan, not a fair comparison.

(01-17-2024, 03:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said Synric. I gave Bates criticism for his tackling and effort at times here, but as a single high Safety he was as good as there is
and just got better in Atlanta. Dax had so much more on his plate than Jordan, not a fair comparison.

Truthfully I don't think Dax was supposed to play as much post safety as he did. Nick Scott was the center field post safety for the rams heavy cover 3 defense in 2022. Dax was better early in the season when he was getting more reps underneath with Scott over the top. Nick Scott just took the absolute worst angles I've seen from a safety in a while. 

(01-17-2024, 03:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well said Synric. I gave Bates criticism for his tackling and effort at times here, but as a single high Safety he was as good as there is
and just got better in Atlanta. Dax had so much more on his plate than Jordan, not a fair comparison.

Tackling felt like a week-to-week problem with the defense this year. For example, and mind you I love Logan Wilson, it seemed like he'd aggressively go after a ball carrier and outright miss or bounce off the offensive player. Pratt, Turner, and other DBs seemed to have this issue throughout the season. I don't know if they were over aggressive, had bad angles, or just didn't stick to the fundamentals.

(01-17-2024, 04:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Truthfully I don't think Dax was supposed to play as much post safety as he did. Nick Scott was the center field post safety for the rams heavy cover 3 defense in 2022. Dax was better early in the season when he was getting more reps underneath with Scott over the top. Nick Scott just took the absolute worst angles I've seen from a safety in a while. 

Saw the same thing, we might need to add another Safety with instincts, speed who takes better angles to keep Dax more comfortable
for all I know. But this could be Tycen Anderson next year. Battle is a more in the box Strong Safety type like Bell. Nick Scott was terrible
like you said taking bad angles early in the season.

(01-17-2024, 04:19 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Tackling felt like a week-to-week problem with the defense this year. For example, and mind you I love Logan Wilson, it seemed like he'd aggressively go after a ball carrier and outright miss or bounce off the offensive player. Pratt, Turner, and other DBs seemed to have this issue throughout the season. I don't know if they were over aggressive, had bad angles, or just didn't stick to the fundamentals.

It did. Lou did a poor job having his players stick to the fundamentals this season alright. So many bad angles from the LB's and Secondary
but also the DL just wasn't sealing the Edge either, bad combination all the way around. Logan was hurt clearly as he is going to have surgery
this Offseason, same with Sam. This makes the most sense as he was slow getting to the sideline on tons of plays taking the inside angles 
instead of using the sideline and getting the ball carrier out of bounds.

(01-17-2024, 02:48 PM)Synric Wrote: Daxton Hill got the majority of the post or single high safety reps in the Bengals heavy cover 3 defense. His area of responsibility was alot and the post is also the position Hill played the least in college. Bengals fans were spoiled by Jessie Bates who is the best single high safety in the NFL his vision and instincts for patern recognition are incredible. 

Ok some of that makes sense but How long we supposed to wait? Dude will be going into his 3rd season with massive question marks. He was a first round draft pick. The excuses get exhausting. If dax is all these things I’m ready to see it. Kid wasn’t a 3rd rounder. Just my opinion. Y r we drafting guys in the first round who aren’t nfl ready but then doing it in the 3rd

(01-09-2024, 12:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: I guess we were in the minority. I was satisfied with that pick in that round myself.

He sure looked better than Scott, even if he wasn't great.
Scott was just a horrible fit for the defense.

(01-19-2024, 02:25 PM)JoeyB2023 Wrote: Ok some of that makes sense but How long we supposed to wait?  Dude will be going into his 3rd season with massive question marks.  He was a first round draft pick.  The excuses get exhausting.  If dax is all these things I’m ready to see it.  Kid wasn’t a 3rd rounder. Just my opinion.  Y r we drafting guys in the first round who aren’t nfl ready but then doing it in the 3rd

Battle was a guy that was considered a faller, not necessarily considered a 3rd-round talent.
Most thought he was gonna go in early-mid 2nd.


I agree with you to an extent that a 1st round pick should be expected to start and play decent quickly, but the debate might be "When?"

I've learned to adjust my expectations over the years and not think a 1st rounder has to be a starter as a rookie.
I tend to give players the number of years corresponding to their draft round as years of grooming before I'd like to see them take over into a role where they ideally play as a starter or at least 50% or more snaps.

So if a 1st rounder, I expect they become a real contributor sometime by end of Year 2.
If a 2nd rounder, a real contributor sometime by end of Year 3.
So on and so forth.
My exception to that rule is if you're a Top 10 pick, I do expect you to be an immediate contributor, as you should be a blue chip prospect.

For Hill, he rode the bench as a rookie due to Bates and Bell. That was his grooming year.
In Year 2, he was the starter and played rather well the first half of the year.
For whatever reason, he didn't play as well down the stretch of last year.
Given his talent and now experience, I expect him to play solid-or-better this year.
If he doesn't, I'd be looking for a potential replacement in 2025.

Murphy the same. Year 2 should be the year he really starts making an impact, likely being the first edge off the bench as Hendrickson and Hubbard need rotated.