I've given up on the line. Completely. There is no roster move we can make to fix it. The problem is either Pollack or the system itself. Neither of those are going to change, so I fully expect 50+ sacks and a bad run game in 2024. Regardless of who starts for the team.

(01-12-2024, 04:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: If your 5+ years on various Practice Squads, league minimum making, never played a snap before this year backup QB can come in and post a 98.4 passer rating and have a winning record behind your offensive line, then your #1 overall pick, elite, highest paid QB in the league should have no difficulty operating behind that same offensive line.

This ^

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  There is nothing wrong with the personnel on the OL, it's more in how they are being used/coached that is causing them to fall short.  Part of it is a lack of practice and preseason reps heading into the season, part of it is the fact that Burrow was hobbled and only able to play in a stationary shotgun position for the first month, part of it is the offensive tendency to be pass first, resulting in 'desperate' looking attempts to catch a defense off guard by handing off out of shotgun.

I find it no surprise that the team did well when they varied from the norm in the San Francisco game, and went back to a similar style after the first Steelers game.  This OL is much more effective when operating with a QB under Center more often than back in shotgun.

Great coaches adjust their game plan to the players that they have at their disposal, rather than continuing to make futile attempts at pounding square pegs into round holes.

(01-12-2024, 07:10 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Not really.

Right now, we don't have:
1) A starting WR2 or WR3.
2) A starting NT.
3) A starting RT
4) A starting TE.
5) Much of a pass rush outside of Hendrickson.

Those are the main things we need to solve in FA/Draft.

The inexperienced secondary play that led to all the big plays, at least arguably, has an in house solution. Battle was great & you hope Hill/Battle improve.

Still, I'd rate CB/safety help above getting another OL starter. Brown was fine and much better late, he had an injury midseason that hampered him a bit. Karras and Cappa were both good enough to win SBs (as was Brown). Volson played a ton better as the year progressed.

Upgrading the depth would be welcome, but aside from Jonah's replacement, the OL is not a super high priority.

1) WR (need at least 2).
2) NT/DT (need at least 2).
3) RT: needs starter
4) TE: need starter.
5) CB/S (need 2).
6) Get someone who can help push the pocket/pass rush.
7) Upgrade punter.

1 we do have WR2, we have rights to Higgins if we choose 

(01-12-2024, 08:37 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: 1 we do have WR2, we have rights to Higgins if we choose 

Yeah, if you want to spend over 1/3 of our cap space on a WR who didn't even get 700 yards last year on a one year deal.

Yes, it need fixing. However, this is not a 1 year project.
Free Agency by year: 2024 Jonah Williams; 2025 Karras; 2026 Volson, Cappa; 2027 ABrown
We can advance the timeline for each these positions a year or so if better becomes available.

So this year we must get a RT and a serviceable backup. My preference is to sign an OK tackle and draft a RT starter.
We can move a tackle inside if they don't work out and try again, but not the other way around.
Maybe they move Jaxson up from the practice squad as a guard backup and draft an IOL in the draft.

In a perfect world we sign a passable FA OG and RT and draft a future RT and future potential OG/OC.

The IOL players are smart and savvy but especially with Cappa and Karras (and I hate to say this), they aren't the most athletic guys on the team. In the AFCN, they go against 3 of the toughest defenses and the 2 best defensive players in the NFL They simply aren't strong enough or more importantly quick enough to consistently stand up to the competition. JoeyB covers up a multitude of sins,

They need to go after a different type of lineman than they have in the past in order to see great improvement in line play. They need bigger and stronger not just smart player. It is a rebuild that won't happen in one year

It’s not broken. It needs improvement.

(01-13-2024, 05:05 PM)pally Wrote: The IOL players are smart and savvy but especially with Cappa and Karras (and I hate to say this), they aren't the most athletic guys on the team.  In the AFCN, they go against 3 of the toughest defenses and the 2 best defensive players in the NFL  They simply aren't strong enough or more importantly quick enough to consistently stand up to the competition.  JoeyB covers up a multitude of sins,  

They need to go after a different type of lineman than they have in the past in order to see great improvement in line play.  They need bigger and stronger not just smart player.  It is a rebuild that won't happen in one year

That chart that was circling the internet during the season about the RAS of team's OL was truly shocking. I didn't have any idea it was that big of a gap.


EDIT: Found the chart.



(This was like Week 12 or something I think, so the PFF Grades might be different but the athleticism still applies.)

(01-13-2024, 05:18 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That chart that was circling the internet during the season about the RAS of team's OL was truly shocking. I didn't have any idea it was that big of a gap.


EDIT: Found the chart.



(This was like Week 12 or something I think, so the PFF Grades might be different but the athleticism still applies.)

Duke seeing Pollack get all the blame though…



People act like we brought in a bunch of studs just because they won Super Bowls with Brady and Mahomes.

(01-12-2024, 03:20 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The only other option is to somehow change the scheme or fire Pollack - both of which look like they aren't going to happen.

(01-12-2024, 07:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I've given up on the line. Completely. There is no roster move we can make to fix it. The problem is either Pollack or the system itself. Neither of those are going to change, so I fully expect 50+ sacks and a bad run game in 2024. Regardless of who starts for the team.

I think this is such a compelling offseason in the sense that despite all our needs, using the draft to fill them is a strategy marked with its own holes. The OL is a perfect example. Solid draft class for linemen. But we've had immense trouble developing them under Zac. Far more success signing guys off the street like OBJ, Cappa, Karras, even Reiff in 2021. So would we be wasting our pick? I personally don't think so, and 18 is a prime spot to land a lot of them- you could make a case for Latham, Guyton, Paul, Barton, Mims and others- but at what point do we become self conscious about doing it given our history? It's bound to take years to bring him along (see: Volson, Cordell) so would we missing an opportunity given our wide open current window?

Similar questions with the other groups. We need NT depth but it's not the best year for them imo. There's no Reader available, or anyone even remotely close. In terms of pass rushers, we just spent a Day 1 on an edge, to say nothing of recent investments made in Ossai and Carter. And that's even more true for the secondary, what with the year we just suffered by throwing a bunch of kids into the fire. Do we really wanna get even younger?! You could possibly make a case for a new nickel to develop behind (2025 FA) Hilton, but are you really gonna spend a top pick on that? And might Dax not be better suited for that role anyway? He hardly distinguished himself as a center fielder imo. And for their part Wilson and Prat aren't going anywhere anytime soon. So despite the fact that our defensive stats were putrid this year, will we really use the draft as our primary means to get better? I don't know.

Likewise on offense. We're not picking a QB in the first round. You could make a case for a Tee replacement, although that would be a lateral move at best. You'd be filling a hole that isn't even there yet. RB's possible but it's not 2023; there's no Bijan or Gibbs this year. I'd be surprised if a back went in the first two rounds, to be honest. Solid TE class but we have no propensity for going that route, and I think Zac has even said they don't plan to. So what do they do?

Anyway, this goes far beyond the OL. More a debate on their draft strategy in general as viewed through the lens of the OL. But they're in a really interesting spot. If you asked me I'd say it's a good year to trade down and get some proven vets to help us now, but that's never really our style either. So whatever happens will surprise me one way or another.

It was the full line all year, right? This is what they wanted. Something is wrong.

(01-13-2024, 01:28 AM)Whatever Wrote: Yeah, if you want to spend over 1/3 of our cap space on a WR who didn't even get 700 yards last year on a one year deal.

well look how much we just spent on a QB that played like 5 games healthy

(01-12-2024, 06:38 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Sorry I think you over value Burrow,  it takes more than a very good QB to do what we did in 2021 and 2022 , was he the engine of the team yes but not the only reason. As for oline they has positives this year over last 2 and have too much $$ invested to cut some players. I don't think they need that much change in oline outside of Volson, just hope Pollack can improve rushing and our defense bounces back. In the end this is not 2021 oline

Im not sorry, but you constantly under value Burrow.  

(01-12-2024, 03:43 PM)J24 Wrote: Yes; they need radically change thier IOL in particular.

I would cut Cappa and sign Jon Runyan from Green Bay! Runyan is a better Pass Blocker and a better Athlete than Cappa.

On top of this we need to draft a RT and a C in the early RDs. Also would draft/sign a swing Tackle!

Seriously?   Runyan had multiple games in which his pass block grade was below 30.  Cappa had a down year for him but still had 5 games with a pass block score over 80.  Cutting Cappa makes no sense, Runyan is a terrible run blocker and his overall PFF score is 10 points lower than Cappa.  

Runyan would be an upgrade in pass blocking over Volson, but again Volson is the better run blocker and even he has a better PFF score than Runyan. 

(01-13-2024, 08:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not sorry, but you constantly under value Burrow.  

Burrow derangement syndrome

(01-13-2024, 08:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not sorry, but you constantly under value Burrow.  

in your context you overvalue him, you consistently undervalue other players that also have contributed to our Bengals success. I stated Burrow is the engine that drives this team and is main contributor to our success, but im also realistic that he needs good support on offense and defense to be successful, his rookie year reflects that.. but we added pieces that helped him drive the team.

(01-13-2024, 08:14 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not sorry, but you constantly under value Burrow.  

Wasn't he the giant Justin Herbert fan ??

And yes they have to change/do something with the Oline in my opinion.

Need to get a new OL coach other than Pollack, a new RT to replace Jonah and a LG to compete with Cordell Volson along with a
schematic change in making sure we run our Offense with the QB under Center much more often to make us less predictable.

All of this would help out the OL, the running game and the Offense as a whole. I am sure others have pretty much said this in
this thread already. It isn't that far off honestly, the OL improved, but not nearly enough to keep Pollack IMO.