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(01-16-2024, 12:35 PM)BengalsBong Wrote: I think you mean we better hope since we are both fans of the Bengals.

True.  Im not as down on them as others, LB play is so impacted by the dline it is difficult to determine the real issues.  Regardless neither had a good 2023 season.

(01-15-2024, 05:51 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Saying our LBs are soft and get trucked simply isnt true.  If you believe this then nothing else you say has any credibility.  If you say they were out of position too much or blocked too easily this season then yes we can all get on board with that.  I could also agree that they missed too many open field tackles.  But they were not run over.  

Being out of position could have been presnap issues with the secondary, but there is no good excuse.
Being blocked always comes down to the dline first.  If the dline is bad then the LB corp is usually bad as well.

Exactly, Pratt and Logan took a lot of bad angles this year and missed too many tackles but they are anything but finesse.

Get the DL shored up and they will look great again I am sure of it. They didn't just forget how to play football.

(01-16-2024, 01:13 PM)casear2727 Wrote: True.  Im not as down on them as others, LB play is so impacted by the dline it is difficult to determine the real issues.  Regardless neither had a good 2023 season.

Yup

I've said this many, many times before. Everybody, well a lot of peeps, want to talk QB's, WR's, CB's and LBers and all the flash and dash, myself included at times. BUTT

It all starts "up front" on both sides of the ball. Joe Burrow shreds opposing D's with another second to throw. CB's look waayyyy better when the opposing QB is running for his life 1.45 seconds into the play and on and on.

My bold move is fix the trenches. If you build it the rest will come.

(01-17-2024, 12:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: My bold move is fix the trenches. If you build it the rest will come.

Agreed, but we all know the counter arguments: Duke can't draft OL and Pollack can ruin a good free agent OL or drafted OL.

Browns fired their OC and 2 assistants, what we doing lol. What is a bold move without firing a coach or two

(01-17-2024, 02:20 PM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Browns fired their OC and 2 assistants, what we doing lol. What is a bold move without firing a coach or two

Browns also fired their DC and Special Teams Coordinator last year as well.  

(01-17-2024, 02:23 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Browns also fired their DC and Special Teams Coordinator last year as well.  

Yeah, I wouldn't be going off of their plan as success. The only smart thing they did was keep Bill Callahan.

I am sure if they fired him we would move on from Pollack in an instant and right to Bill.

(01-17-2024, 04:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, I wouldn't be going off of their plan as success. The only smart thing they did was keep Bill Callahan.

I am sure if they fired him we would move on from Pollack in an instant and right to Bill.

Im not suggesting the Browns are a successful franchise to emulate. But they are not afraid to move on from coaches or pay the money to pick up players.  If we would be just 15% more aggressive we might be way more successful with a new oline coach and taking a swing on big splash free agent or a smart trade. 

(01-17-2024, 04:53 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not suggesting the Browns are a successful franchise to emulate. But they are not afraid to move on from coaches or pay the money to pick up players.  If we would be just 15% more aggressive we might be way more successful with a new oline coach and taking a swing on big splash free agent or a smart trade. 

Agreed. Good leadership always looks for ways to improve. That statement doesn't suggest the Brown family, Duke, and Zac do not embrace continuous improvement, but I've long held the opinion the Bengals organization doesn't make needed moves soon enough. Thus far, Taylor's head coaching tenure has been the same amount of years with the Bengals, 5, as Dave Shula and Bruce Coslet. Shula and Coslet lasted a long time. Their tenure exemplifies change isn't always quick for the Bengals organization.

I'm glad Zac is the coach and would like to trust he's making sound decisions with who he keeps as assistants.

(01-17-2024, 05:08 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Agreed. Good leadership always looks for ways to improve. That statement doesn't suggest the Brown family, Duke, and Zac do not embrace continuous improvement, but I've long held the opinion the Bengals organization doesn't make needed moves soon enough. Thus far, Taylor's head coaching tenure has been the same amount of years with the Bengals, 5, as Dave Shula and Bruce Coslet. Shula and Coslet lasted a long time. Their tenure exemplifies change isn't always quick for the Bengals organization.

I'm glad Zac is the coach and would like to trust he's making sound decisions with who he keeps as assistants.

A question to those who may have a quick right answer:

Since 2019 - What specific Assistants and how many has Zac Fired ?    

Most likely left for better opportunities versus actually being Fired.  

Could Zac be too nice of a guy to Fire Assistants ?  (not saying he is, just asking)

(01-17-2024, 04:53 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Im not suggesting the Browns are a successful franchise to emulate. But they are not afraid to move on from coaches or pay the money to pick up players.  If we would be just 15% more aggressive we might be way more successful with a new oline coach and taking a swing on big splash free agent or a smart trade. 

Yes, being a little more aggressive would definitely be welcome around here.

(01-17-2024, 05:08 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Agreed. Good leadership always looks for ways to improve. That statement doesn't suggest the Brown family, Duke, and Zac do not embrace continuous improvement, but I've long held the opinion the Bengals organization doesn't make needed moves soon enough. Thus far, Taylor's head coaching tenure has been the same amount of years with the Bengals, 5, as Dave Shula and Bruce Coslet. Shula and Coslet lasted a long time. Their tenure exemplifies change isn't always quick for the Bengals organization.

I'm glad Zac is the coach and would like to trust he's making sound decisions with who he keeps as assistants.

Spot on. Now would be the time to be looking at OL coaches and seeing if we can find an upgrade. If we move on from Pollack to a proven
OL coach the entire fan base and the league would take notice. Same with OC even if we gave the job to Walters our really good WR coach
it would be some moves to show we are really trying to improve and not okay with status quo.

Then we can Tag Tee and trade him or keep him, just keep our options open so we can be aggressive in FA to really go after that Lombardi.

(01-17-2024, 07:27 PM)depthchart Wrote: A question to those who may have a quick right answer:

Since 2019 - What specific Assistants and how many has Zac Fired ?    

Most likely left for better opportunities versus actually being Fired.  

Could Zac be too nice of a guy to Fire Assistants ?  (not saying he is, just asking)

Jim Turner, offensive line coach, was fired and replaced with Pollack.

Steve Jackson, defensive backs coach made a lateral move to Atlanta and was replaced by Burks. 

(01-17-2024, 12:21 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yup

I've said this many, many times before. Everybody, well a lot of peeps, want to talk QB's, WR's, CB's and LBers and all the flash and dash, myself included at times. BUTT

It all starts "up front" on both sides of the ball. Joe Burrow shreds opposing D's with another second to throw. CB's look waayyyy better when the opposing QB is running for his life 1.45 seconds into the play and on and on.

My bold move is fix the trenches. If you build it the rest will come.

This x1000. 

My mantra would be Tee + the trenches. But I still love the Derrick Henry move. 

I will say that I do not think BJ Hill is the issue. He is a good player. 67.7 PFF. 33 solo tackles (T-21st), 16 assists (T-13th), 6 sacks (T-29th).

Reader was his usual awesome self at 82.2 PFF. There is no heir apparent to him on the roster. Nor in FA. Maybe Sweat in the draft, but him being there at #49 is unlikely. 

Keep the guys you have that are good and try to upgrade the others. Tufele (45.5, no sacks), Tupou (52.1, no sacks) and Carter (51.2, no sacks) are where the upgrades are needed. 

There isn't a long term A+ RT available in FA. Though midoriced stopgaps are possible. 

Nor a FA WR as good and young and proven as Higgins. 

Bring back Tee & Reader & go big game hunting at DT in FA. Take OT Rd1. Go some combo of WR3 and NT/TE/CB in Rds 2 & 3 & 4. 

Yes, I know that is 1 short. Squeeze enough savings out of restructuringcdeals to fill another need or 2 in FA, likely CB4,, NT2, or TE. 

(01-18-2024, 03:10 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Jim Turner, offensive line coach, was fired and replaced with Pollack.

Steve Jackson, defensive backs coach made a lateral move to Atlanta and was replaced by Burks. 

Interesting that it was an O-line Coach that was Fired given all of the Pollack talk on the Message Board.   

Zac may be satisfied with the Job Pollack is doing.

(01-18-2024, 03:36 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: This x1000. 

My mantra would be Tee + the trenches. But I still love the Derrick Henry move. 

I will say that I do not think BJ Hill is the issue. He is a good player. 67.7 PFF. 33 solo tackles (T-21st), 16 assists (T-13th), 6 sacks (T-29th).

Reader was his usual awesome self at 82.2 PFF. There is no heir apparent to him on the roster. Nor in FA. Maybe Sweat in the draft, but him being there at #49 is unlikely. 

Keep the guys you have that are good and try to upgrade the others. Tufele (45.5, no sacks), Tupou (52.1, no sacks) and Carter (51.2, no sacks) are where the upgrades are needed. 

There isn't a long term A+ RT available in FA. Though midoriced stopgaps are possible. 

Nor a FA WR as good and young and proven as Higgins. 

Bring back Tee & Reader & go big game hunting at DT in FA. Take OT Rd1. Go some combo of WR3 and NT/TE/CB in Rds 2 & 3 & 4. 

Yes, I know that is 1 short. Squeeze enough savings out of restructuringcdeals to fill another need or 2 in FA, likely CB4,, NT2, or TE. 

Nice post Ike, yes sir, keep the good players and upgrade the bad ones. I like this route myself. 

(01-18-2024, 04:07 PM)depthchart Wrote: Interesting that it was an O-line Coach that was Fired given all of the Pollack talk on the Message Board.   

Zac may be satisfied with the Job Pollack is doing.

Hope so and if this is the case maybe they are looking around at OL Coaches and we just don't know anything about it.

Have to have an OL Coach in place before we fire Pollack.

Bring in someone who can stand in for Zacs pressers after losing games to say,  "We just have to execute better!" Zac's not very believable when he says it..  Preferably someone with a loaded pistol and a blindfold.. That'll motivate em!  

(01-17-2024, 05:08 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Agreed. Good leadership always looks for ways to improve. That statement doesn't suggest the Brown family, Duke, and Zac do not embrace continuous improvement, but I've long held the opinion the Bengals organization doesn't make needed moves soon enough. Thus far, Taylor's head coaching tenure has been the same amount of years with the Bengals, 5, as Dave Shula and Bruce Coslet. Shula and Coslet lasted a long time. Their tenure exemplifies change isn't always quick for the Bengals organization.

I'm glad Zac is the coach and would like to trust he's making sound decisions with who he keeps as assistants.

Shula set a record for fastest to 50 losses solely due to the fact that Mike Brown wouldn't fire him. Any other team wouldn't have let that drag on for that long.

Bratkowski lasted 10 years despite average rankings of 17th in yards and 18th in points.

Alexander the Poop lasted 24 years and 1,873 bottles of ketchup.

At best, these guys had some solid years. Nothing amazing. They also had some extreme lows. Overall, they were probably below average coaches at best.

Bratkowski lasted one season with the Jaguars and ranked 29th in yards and 30th in points. Never a OC again.

Alexander lasted exactly 7 games with the Cowboys. He was out of the league after that. Who fires a new position coach after only 7 games?

These guys weren't good, and we kept them around for decades.

(01-20-2024, 02:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Shula set a record for fastest to 50 losses solely due to the fact that Mike Brown wouldn't fire him. Any other team wouldn't have let that drag on for that long.

Bratkowski lasted 10 years despite average rankings of 17th in yards and 18th in points.

Alexander the Poop lasted 24 years and 1,873 bottles of ketchup.

At best, these guys had some solid years. Nothing amazing. They also had some extreme lows. Overall, they were probably below average coaches at best.

Bratkowski lasted one season with the Jaguars and ranked 29th in yards and 30th in points. Never a OC again.

Alexander lasted exactly 7 games with the Cowboys. He was out of the league after that. Who fires a new position coach after only 7 games?

These guys weren't good, and we kept them around for decades.

Mike Brown choosing Shula over Bill Cowher was classic Mike Brown.

(01-20-2024, 03:28 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Mike Brown choosing Shula over Bill Cowher was classic Mike Brown.

Mike's dad Paul may have topped Mike by letting Bill Walsh leave the Organization.

What might the Bengals History have looked like had Bill Walsh stayed in 1976 ?