(01-18-2024, 11:15 AM)jason Wrote: Mike Nugent? I could be making that up though...

Nuge is the only FT'd player to come to terms on a new deal, signing a 2 year deal after being tagged.  K's are a bit different, though, as the mid-range ones like him tend to operate on 1-2 year deals and the Tag amount is so relatively low.  

We are gonna have to do some serious FA work to be able to draft a Rd1 WR (Thomas). Gotta land a Jonah+ RT in FA, and there are one, maybe two possibilities at the moment (though more could open up).

Plus, tagging Tee ($21 mil hit) AND going WR in Rd1 seems way excessive with all our other needs.

As for the move, I have never had a doubt Tee would be back. Certainly we are not gonna let him walk for nothing. He thinks he is worth $25 mil, but the season he had does not back that up. His camp is likely betting on a better season next year AND the Bengals having less leverage/more costly tag.

On our side, the tag hit is probably roughly as high as we'd go on a APY extension. With the year 1 hit vs cap lower. An extension would be better, but likely will take a while. A tag puts Tee on the back burner while the rest of FA plays out.

Plus, if we tag Tee, I suspect we go WR on Day 2 (though TE, DT/NT, and DB are all possible).

The rook WR, Iosivas, & Jones then have a year to bloom. If 2 of them do, we could look at trading Higgins.

The tag is a bit of a hedge from both sides. Tee had a down year and thinks he is worth more. He has a year to prove it.

The Bengals have the cap space & the year buys them a year to let other WR prospects develop.

(01-17-2024, 05:59 PM)casear2727 Wrote: This isnt false, but it is kind of disingenuous.  The franchise tag is part of their contract that they signed.  The players association agreed to it. This isnt something the owners are forcing the players to do.  Contracts can, and have been, written that prevent a franchise tag. 

Players can be mad all they want, but they signed up for the possibility of being tagged.  It is is a very good rule that helps maintain balance.

True - except the college guys didn't have any input on that part of it.

(01-17-2024, 10:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Except every trade is money related. Getting one heck of a receiver at #6 trumps Tee @25 million. For a whole lot less money. True they’d have an 18 but the NFL is getting to be like the NBA. The top 12 picks are pretty sure fire.

I don't see the impossibility of using TEE in a Trade up.

Just a year ago many Analysts, Former GM's etc were saying that they believe TEE could be a #1 wide receiver.

I would bet that many still believe that he can handle a #1 role and/or be a Top #2 receiver on a Team.

It only takes one Team to want TEE and also like a player at pick #18 probably at another position. (They get 2 players TEE & #18)

If TEE becomes an Un-tagged Free Agent wide receiver right now, I believe he would be one of the Top guys. Only 25 years old.

There is Value there that can be used to gain something and there should be a few Teams lining up to pay TEE.  - IMO

Of course Tee would like to stay here and he has no objective reason to say he wouldn't like to be here.

The more important questions is does Tee want to be here so much that he's willing to be a WR2 or take WR 2 money to be here? Because he will certainly have no shortage of suitors in free agency, and he would be a prime candidate to get an absurd contract on the open market to be the WR1 somewhere.

(01-18-2024, 12:32 PM)depthchart Wrote: I don't see the impossibility of using TEE in a Trade up.

Just a year ago many Analysts, Former GM's etc were saying that they believe TEE could be a #1 wide receiver.

I would bet that many still believe that he can handle a #1 role and/or be a Top #2 receiver on a Team.

It only takes one Team to want TEE and also like a player at pick #18 probably at another position. (They get 2 players TEE & #18)

If TEE becomes an Un-tagged Free Agent wide receiver right now, I believe he would be one of the Top guys. Only 25 years old.

There is Value there that can be used to gain something and there should be a few Teams lining up to pay TEE.  - IMO

There is no way we burn Tee in a trade UP. 

The player would have to be worth Higgins + #18. No chance. 

(01-18-2024, 11:15 AM)jason Wrote: Mike Nugent? I could be making that up though...

Ahh I forgot he was tagged in 2012.
I was thinking maybe it was Shayne Graham, but he got tagged in 2009 and then played elsewhere in 2010.
Looks like Nugent is the only one in the past 20 years to get tagged and then signed after.

It's extremely, extremely rare (at least for the Bengals) to see a player get a long-term contract after being tagged.
Typically, they go elsewhere after the tag year.

Hypothetical then for people...
If Higgins is tagged but not signed to a long-term deal and thus really just a 1-year rental at $20+ mill?
Or would they be better served putting $20 mill toward a different position (or two) and maybe getting a WR in the draft?

(01-18-2024, 01:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Ahh I forgot he was tagged in 2012.
I was thinking maybe it was Shayne Graham, but he got tagged in 2009 and then played elsewhere in 2010.
Looks like Nugent is the only one in the past 20 years to get tagged and then signed after.

It's extremely, extremely rare (at least for the Bengals) to see a player get a long-term contract after being tagged.
Typically, they go elsewhere after the tag year.

Hypothetical then for people...
If Higgins is tagged but not signed to a long-term deal and thus really just a 1-year rental at $20+ mill?
Or would they be better served putting $20 mill toward a different position (or two) and maybe getting a WR in the draft?

Bengals depend heavily on their wide receivers as an offense. You're increasing your chance of issues when you throw in 2 first time starters in the same position group. If one is a B-Level cheaper FA there could also be growing pains in a new system getting chemistry with a new QB. 

Even if the Franchise Tag is an overpay Tee Higgins is close enoguh that number that the instant chemistry and scheme fit is worth it in a solid Super Bowl window. Now Tee Higgins after 2024? That's alot less likely.

(01-18-2024, 01:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals depend heavily on their wide receivers as an offense. You're increasing your chance of issues when you throw in 2 first time starters in the same position group. Even if one is a B-Level cheaper FA there could also be growing pains in a new system getting chemistry with a new QB. 

Even if the Franchise Tag is an overpay Tee Higgins is close enoguh that number that the instant chemistry and scheme fit is worth it in a solid Super Bowl window. Now Tee Higgins in after 2024? That's alot less likely.

I can see that logic, but man I hate the tag being so expensive for a WR, especially given Higgins seems to get dinged up some every year.
I guess though if the tag is gonna be used, Higgins is more worthy of it over Reader (which is estimated $20.9 mill) or Jonah (estimated $19.9 mill).

The only "cheap" tags nowadays seem to be K/P, RB, TE.

(01-18-2024, 01:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals depend heavily on their wide receivers as an offense. You're increasing your chance of issues when you throw in 2 first time starters in the same position group. If one is a B-Level cheaper FA there could also be growing pains in a new system getting chemistry with a new QB. 

Even if the Franchise Tag is an overpay Tee Higgins is close enoguh that number that the instant chemistry and scheme fit is worth it in a solid Super Bowl window. Now Tee Higgins after 2024? That's alot less likely.

Higgins averages 931 yards per season.  Plug that into this year and it would make him 33rd in receiving yards.  The 33rd highest paid WR in the league is Adam Thielen, who has a 3 year, $25 mil deal.  So the FT represents an overpay of 150+% based on Higgins production.  Age doesn't really play into it, as we're talking a one year deal.

(01-18-2024, 12:52 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: There is no way we burn Tee in a trade UP. 

The player would have to be worth Higgins + #18. No chance. 

Worth Higgins + #18 plus the Money saved by the Bengals for not having to pay Higgins.

Another player or two can be obtained by the Bengals with the Money saved by not paying TEE

to go along with the player the Bengals Traded up for. 

(01-18-2024, 01:14 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals depend heavily on their wide receivers as an offense. You're increasing your chance of issues when you throw in 2 first time starters in the same position group. If one is a B-Level cheaper FA there could also be growing pains in a new system getting chemistry with a new QB. 

Even if the Franchise Tag is an overpay Tee Higgins is close enoguh that number that the instant chemistry and scheme fit is worth it in a solid Super Bowl window. Now Tee Higgins after 2024? That's alot less likely.

I agree that losing TEE may have BIG negative ramifications for the Offense.

This is why I only want to move on from TEE if he can be used in a Trade that brings in some TOP talent

at some position as TEE leaves.  (Offset his loss somehow)

*Hence my Trade up for Marvin Harrison JR idea -or- a Top OT -or- another Top rookie WR -or- Brock Bowers TE

** It is probably best to keep TEE for 2024 if the Hole he leaves is not offset somewhere hopefully on Offense or at least the Defense.

(01-18-2024, 11:51 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: True - except the college guys didn't have any input on that part of it.

Those college guys don't have to play in the NFL if they don't like the CBA.

(01-18-2024, 01:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: Higgins averages 931 yards per season.  Plug that into this year and it would make him 33rd in receiving yards.  The 33rd highest paid WR in the league is Adam Thielen, who has a 3 year, $25 mil deal.  So the FT represents an overpay of 150+% based on Higgins production.  Age doesn't really play into it, as we're talking a one year deal.

This is 1 case where the tag benefits the player over the franchise. We tag him & he gets hurt again or he does'nt put up 1200 yards on the season & he's completely overpaid. I think Tee is really only worth 20 million a year if we get him for 5 years & 100 million. Numbers don't lie, he's not worth 25 or more a season. Maybe I'm still in shock over how many drops he had this year.

(01-18-2024, 01:20 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I can see that logic, but man I hate the tag being so expensive for a WR, especially given Higgins seems to get dinged up some every year.
I guess though if the tag is gonna be used, Higgins is more worthy of it over Reader (which is estimated $20.9 mill) or Jonah (estimated $19.9 mill).

The only "cheap" tags nowadays seem to be K/P, RB, TE.

2016 flashbacks are tough. 

Tee was the 7th WR selected in the 2020 Draft. In 58 games
Played he is 4th in catches with 257....
4th in yards with 3684
4th in TDs with 24.
3rd in YPC at 14.3

Hes outplayed 3 WRs drafted ahead of him
( Ruggs Jeudy Reagor. His numbers are
Very comparable with Brandon Aiyuk.

Yet there's a narrative that says let Tee walk
He can be replaced easily by drafting another
WR In the 2024. Yeah only if it was that easy.
Replacing Tee with drafting a WR takes you
Down a road of unknowns.
Tee is a sure thing and he WANTS TO BE
BENGAL!!!!.
He is easily the 3rd or 4th best WR out of that 2020
Draft. For every Tee Higgins drafted there is
10 Denzel Mims and 10 Laviska Shenaults that
Go the bust route.

(01-18-2024, 01:38 PM)Whatever Wrote: Higgins averages 931 yards per season.  Plug that into this year and it would make him 33rd in receiving yards.  The 33rd highest paid WR in the league is Adam Thielen, who has a 3 year, $25 mil deal.  So the FT represents an overpay of 150+% based on Higgins production.  Age doesn't really play into it, as we're talking a one year deal.

That seems ligical but misses the point. 

Tee gets less targets because of Chase. The #1 guy on other teams is likely gonna get more targets/yards than any #2. I mean, Curry's PPG went down when the Dubs signed Durant, was Steph less valuable? No. 

Plus, Tee averaged well over 1,000 yards his first 3 years. Over 1,000 the two where Burrow was healthy. And put up 100 per game (close to it) when Chase was out. 

And making Thielen the comparison and then saying age does not matter is flat out silly. He is ancient, HIS contract is certainly affected by it. 

Tee is 20th in the league the last 4 years in receiving yards. 19th amongst WRs (Kelce). And that is sans Burrow for a full year of that time. Plus, of those 19, only 3 have played fewer than Tee's 58 games (Chase, Kupp, Keenan Allen). 

He is a top 15-20 WR. Yeah, the tag is a bit of an overpay (average of top 10), but not a lot. #15 makes $18.3 mil. It starts dropping quickly after that. #19 is $16.1 mil (Hunter Renfrow). 

(01-18-2024, 03:35 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Tee was the 7th WR selected in the 2020 Draft. In 58 games
Played he is 4th in catches with 257....
4th in yards with 3684
4th in TDs with 24.
3rd in YPC at 14.3

Hes outplayed 3 WRs drafted ahead of him
( Ruggs Jeudy Reagor. His numbers are
Very comparable with Brandon Aiyuk.

Yet there's a narrative that says let Tee walk
He can be replaced easily by drafting another
WR In the 2024. Yeah only if it was that easy.
Replacing Tee with drafting a WR takes you
Down a road of unknowns.
Tee is a sure thing and he WANTS TO BE
BENGAL!!!!.
He is easily the 3rd or 4th  best WR out of that 2020
Draft. For every Tee Higgins drafted there is
10 Denzel Mims and 10 Laviska Shenaults that
Go the bust route.

I agree with the side of the coin that you are showing.

This is why I believe the Bengals must be very careful with any decision to Trade TEE.

Marvin Harrison Jr should be a safe replacement. Rome Odunze or Malik Nabers would likely do well. Gets riskier after that.

Could Trade up and get Brock Bowers TE then shift some catches to the Tight ends to help offset TEE leaving.

Could get a Top OT with a Trade up say Olu Fashanu, OT, Penn State then Draft WR later and hit Free Agency for a veteran WR.

This is why I tend to want to either keep TEE for 2024 or use him in a Trade Up to get something of Quality to offset his loss.

I doubt that I would just Trade TEE for say a 2nd round pick just to save Money in 2024.

A TEE departure would need to be carefully Planned or else just keep him for 2024 at the least.

I think Tee is comparable to DK Metcalf and AJ Brown. Stats, stature, and ability.

I’d be happy with a 4 year deal for around what they were paid.. That would put him at 29 when his second contract expires.

Sign me up for the prime years of having a monster mismatch WR to trot out there and put pressure on defenses already worried about one of the best QB-WR combos in the league.