I wouldn't hate Elumenor being our RT. I'd definitely rather get a tackle in round 1, but they could do worse that him.

It's unlikely unfold this way, but if singing Elumenor in FA meant they might consider an interior OL like JPJ in round 1. I would like this outcome very much.

We all know there's only so much money to go around, and that the team needs a few things badly. I'd still err on the side of signing defensive FAs and drafting young offensive talent. It's a great year to do it with really solid WR and OT crops. Spend big on a DT, then reload on offense in the draft.

(02-10-2024, 12:59 PM)bfine32 Wrote: If this dude is an average NFL starter now, just imagine what Pollack can do with him.

(02-10-2024, 01:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Trent Brown is a top-5 RT and top-10 OT. I'd imagine Pollack could make him serviceable 

(02-10-2024, 04:41 PM)samhain Wrote: I wouldn't hate Elumenor being our RT.  I'd definitely rather get a tackle in round 1, but they could do worse that him.  

It's unlikely unfold this way, but if singing Elumenor in FA meant they might consider an interior OL like JPJ in round 1.  I would like this outcome very much.

We all know there's only so much money to go around, and that the team needs a few things badly.  I'd still err on the side of signing defensive FAs and drafting young offensive talent.  It's a great year to do it with really solid WR and OT crops.  Spend big on a DT, then reload on offense in the draft.

Why cant they sign FAs and draft players at the same position.  You guys are crazy risking an open spot to a rookie, especially with our draft history. 

(02-10-2024, 05:43 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Why cant they sign FAs and draft players at the same position.  You guys are crazy risking an open spot to a rookie, especially with our draft history. 

If it is Alt, Fashanu, Fuaga, Latham, or Morris, I am comfortable. 

If it is Guyton or Mims, less so. 

In either case, I am uncomfortable with Ford as our primary OT backup. 

The last tackle we drafted (Rd1) was perfectly fine (Jonah). 

(02-11-2024, 03:44 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: If it is Alt, Fashanu, Fuaga, Latham, or Morris, I am comfortable. 

If it is Guyton or Mims, less so. 

In either case, I am uncomfortable with Ford as our primary OT backup. 

The last tackle we drafted (Rd1) was perfectly fine (Jonah).

Not really. He only played 10 games over his first 2 seasons, and when he did finally start for a full season he led the league in sacks allowed.

(02-11-2024, 03:44 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: The last tackle we drafted (Rd1) was perfectly fine (Jonah). 

(02-11-2024, 03:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not really. He only played 10 games over his first 2 seasons, and when he did finally start for a full season he led the league in sacks allowed.

We knew he was out Y1 when we drafted him. We picked up his 5th year option, kinda weird if he sucked. He is projected to make $15 mil on FA. Kind of weird if he sucks. Had two PFF years over 70 and gutted out another year on one leg and switched positions adequately this year. 

70.1, 77.1, 61.2 (on one leg), 58.3 (new position).

And mind you, he plays 2x a year vs Watt, Garrett, and Baltimore. This ain't the NFC South.

Jonah was hardly a dumpster fire. Your silly little cartoons notwithstanding. Now, the elite DEs eat his lunch. And leaving him on islands against them is baffling.

No way do i want the mindset that since it did not work out in the past, that means don't draft what you believe will be your starting RT for 5 to 10 years... That is a losing mind set and I do hope the Bengals organization is not thinking that way.

(02-11-2024, 04:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We knew he was out Y1 when we drafted him. We picked up his 5th year option, kinda weird if he sucked. He is projected to make $15 mil on FA. Kind of weird if he sucks. Had two PFF years over 70 and gutted out another year on one leg and switched positions adequately this year. 

70.1, 77.1, 61.2 (on one leg), 58.3 (new position).

And mind you, he plays 2x a year vs Watt, Garrett, and Baltimore. This ain't the NFC South.

Jonah was hardly a dumpster fire. Your silly little cartoons notwithstanding. Now, the elite DEs eat his lunch. And leaving him on islands against them is baffling.

I didn’t post any cartoons…

But if you’re happy with what they got out of Jonah as a 1st round pick (1st OL off the board in fact) more power to you. Personally I think he’s been fairly disappointing all things considered.

If they want a plug and play RT in the draft they should probably consider trading up. But we all know that won’t happen.

They might be able to get one at 18, but given their drafting history at the position it’s definitely a concern. Volson is already a weak link. Two could really sink them.

(02-11-2024, 04:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We knew he was out Y1 when we drafted him. We picked up his 5th year option, kinda weird if he sucked. He is projected to make $15 mil on FA. Kind of weird if he sucks. Had two PFF years over 70 and gutted out another year on one leg and switched positions adequately this year. 

70.1, 77.1, 61.2 (on one leg), 58.3 (new position).

And mind you, he plays 2x a year vs Watt, Garrett, and Baltimore. This ain't the NFC South.

Jonah was hardly a dumpster fire. Your silly little cartoons notwithstanding. Now, the elite DEs eat his lunch. And leaving him on islands against them is baffling.

Oh look...a bunch of excuses. 

You know what good players don't need?


Excuses.

(02-10-2024, 04:41 PM)samhain Wrote: I wouldn't hate Elumenor being our RT.  I'd definitely rather get a tackle in round 1, but they could do worse that him.  

It's unlikely unfold this way, but if singing Elumenor in FA meant they might consider an interior OL like JPJ in round 1.  I would like this outcome very much.

We all know there's only so much money to go around, and that the team needs a few things badly.  I'd still err on the side of signing defensive FAs and drafting young offensive talent.  It's a great year to do it with really solid WR and OT crops.  Spend big on a DT, then reload on offense in the draft.

I think we can get Elumenour for 6 or 7 mill a season. IF we let Mixon go that alone almost pays Elumenoiur's first season.

(02-11-2024, 04:26 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: We knew he was out Y1 when we drafted him. We picked up his 5th year option, kinda weird if he sucked. He is projected to make $15 mil on FA. Kind of weird if he sucks. Had two PFF years over 70 and gutted out another year on one leg and switched positions adequately this year. 

70.1, 77.1, 61.2 (on one leg), 58.3 (new position).

And mind you, he plays 2x a year vs Watt, Garrett, and Baltimore. This ain't the NFC South.

Jonah was hardly a dumpster fire. Your silly little cartoons notwithstanding. Now, the elite DEs eat his lunch. And leaving him on islands against them is baffling.

It is crazy that we now believe that our Top 11 draft pick is a success when the 5 years he is on the roster he were injured for 1.5 of them, led the league in sacks in another, and wasnt great this past season.

So maybe 2 decent years for a 5 year contract is what we want?  Im afraid to ask what you would expect out of the #18 pick?  1 good year out of 5?

I am not a Jonah hater but our expectations should be higher for top tier draft picks.  These are not the quality of grades of an ascending player drafted so high should be at entering his 6th NFL season, in my opinion:

(02-12-2024, 03:20 AM)casear2727 Wrote: It is crazy that we now believe that our Top 11 draft pick is a success when the 5 years he is on the roster he were injured for 1.5 of them, led the league in sacks in another, and wasnt great this past season.

So maybe 2 decent years for a 5 year contract is what we want?  Im afraid to ask what you would expect out of the #18 pick?  1 good year out of 5?

I am not a Jonah hater but our expectations should be higher for top tier draft picks.  These are not the quality of grades of an ascending player drafted so high should be at entering his 6th NFL season, in my opinion:

If you can draft a RT at 18 and he gets similar pff grades to what Jonah had, I don’t think that’s a bust. Maybe disappointing, but not a bust

(02-12-2024, 03:37 AM)Frank Booth Wrote: If you can draft a RT at 18 and he gets similar pff grades to what Jonah had, I don’t think that’s a bust. Maybe disappointing, but not a bust

I never said bust but those grades after year 5 are surely disappointing considering he was the #11 draft pick, in my opinion.  

Relying on a rookie to be very solid in year one is extremely difficult.  Alt may be the only sure thing in this draft at OT.

(02-12-2024, 10:31 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Relying on a rookie to be very solid in year one is extremely difficult.  Alt may be the only sure thing in this draft at OT.

I agree about relying on a rookie as a gamble. Tristan Wirfs I suppose exemplifies a solid rookie season from an OL on a contending team when TB won the Super Bowl. He was picked 13 though which maaaaaaybe suggests the Bengals would need to move up in the draft so get a sure-thing for the OL.

(02-12-2024, 10:31 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I never said bust but those grades after year 5 are surely disappointing considering he was the #11 draft pick, in my opinion.  

Relying on a rookie to be very solid in year one is extremely difficult.  Alt may be the only sure thing in this draft at OT.

You posted a little cartoon of the dog & the fire. It is pretty intellectually dishonest to say you were not saying he was a dum0ster fire/bust. 

Just like it is intellectually dishonest to focus on 1 year out of 5 evaluating a player. 

Just like it is intellectually dishonest to say I said Jonah was a sucess. I didn't. I just said he wasn't a bust/failure. 

Sorry that the two good years and the injury 2 years ago don't help your argument. Nor the fact that we throw a ton vs some of the best rushers in the league. Those are facts, not excuses. 

People on this board go on for pages about Pollack & how offensive lineman we get here never grade out as well as before. Well, no duh. They were not playing Pitt/Cle/Bal 2x a year in a spread offense. It is not rocket science. 

Now, having said all that, I certainly don't think Jonah is worth $15 mil. We need to get more athletic on the OL. That means drafting a higher quality of player. 

Overpaying for ANOTHER  OK-ish, average level starter is not a fix, it is a band aid. We are probably picking as high as we will with Prime Burrow AND simultaneously having the strongest OT class in memory. Gotta take advantage. 

Top tier Cs & Gs can be had late first or second regularly. Or even 3rd. But late first gor a top tier OT is rare. It has to be now. 

If you wanna pay a band-aid too, that is fine. But it is a band-aid. Not a fix. 

So what if we have to depend on a rookie? It's not THAT bad if you plan for it. And we've been "planning" for it the past five years having to have Sample help out. So do that one more year, while the rookie gets acclimated? Or sign a guy like Jermaine to a two year deal and have some patience as the rookie develops into the heir apparent? The only guy I really worry about us drafting is Guyton. I know he has this supposedly high ceiling, but he's super raw. We need a guy who has some seasoning to him, in my opinion. I'd be completely fine w Latham or Mims (love Alt but doubt he falls that far) starting between Cappa and Sample. I'd also be completely fine w either of those two playing swing tackle / 6th lineman for a year. You can NEVER have too many good, smart, offensive linemen rostered, let's hope Duke and Co. don't overthink this, start trading back and missing out on a good player like they did when they traded back and selected Jackson Charmin. We have a lot of picks this year, if there's any trading to be had, let it be **UP, TO GET A GUY YOU WANT** rather than **DOWN, AND PRAY HE'S STILL THERE (or take the next best)**

We passed on a TE last year, when we really needed one, in a supposed DEEP tight end class. And how'd that turn out? They'd be stupid to pass on an OT in another supposed deep class. I don't want to hear "the right guy just didn't fall to us" this year. If they take a DT in round 1 (or any non-Oline prospect, really) and the guy they have targeted for Rnd 2 is the OT prospect they want, then trade up into the upper parts of R2 to get him! Don't wait around for your turn to pick or you may be left out in the cold holding the bag.

(02-12-2024, 11:35 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Top tier Cs & Gs can be had late first or second regularly. Or even 3rd. 

I agree

but do you really trust Tobin and his staff to hit on 1st/2nd round guards? I dont. 

(02-12-2024, 12:10 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I agree

but do you really trust Tobin and his staff to hit on 1st/2nd round guards? I dont. 

No, probably not. But you can just take the consensus top guy at that point. You don't have to uncover a hidden gem. 

But the overall point was that this is a unusual opportunity to really get a quality OT for cheap. It might not come again. You can do G/C later in the draft, or another year, regardless of when we pick. 

I mean, Bowers or Newton or DeJean or Mitchell or Murphy are all tempting to me at #18, especially if Fuaga & Latham are gone. 

I'd explore trading down a bit and then nabbing Guyton, Mims, Morris, or Suamataia. Those guys are kinda in a tier for me.