(02-15-2024, 12:26 PM)Synric Wrote: Bengals defense is heavy single high coverage and Jessie Bates is the best post safety in the NFL.

Fair, but they didn't sign him, did they?
So is it also fair to assume that they didn't want to pay that much for a safety given they were paying so much for other positions?

I'm not saying the position Bates plays wasn't important, I'm just saying I didn't think paying him a bunch was going to happen for the Bengals based on the finances allocated to other positions.

(02-01-2024, 03:09 PM)spazz70 Wrote: I think this would be a good spot for the transition tag

someone explain the diff between a transition tag VS franchise tag

(02-15-2024, 01:02 PM)kalibengal Wrote: someone explain the diff between a transition tag VS franchise tag

Transition tag means we let Tee find a deal he likes elsewhere and then we can match it or let him walk. If we franchise he can't negotiate w/ other teams. 

If Tee signs the Transition Tag then his salary will be average of the top 10. If he signs Franchise it will be average of top 5. 

(02-15-2024, 01:02 PM)kalibengal Wrote: someone explain the diff between a transition tag VS franchise tag

Franchise Tag: Expensive. Tee could negotiate with other teams for a contract but they'd have to give the Bengals two 1st round picks to sign him (will never happen for Tee).

Transition Tag: A little less expensive (still expensive). Tee could negotiate with other teams for a contract but the Bengals would have a chance to match the contract and retain Tee. Unlike the FT, there's no draft compensation attached to it. So if a team offers 4yr/$100m to Tee and the Bengals don't match it, Tee just leaves us for that team and we get nothing.

- - - - -

He's theoretically tradeable under both of them, but he'd have to sign the tag before the Bengals could trade him. So not only would the Bengals then have to hold onto ~$20m of cap space for Tee that they couldn't spend in FA while there's still FAs worth it, it could also stretch to the draft which means the Bengals wouldn't be able to trade him for 2024 draft picks.

The Transition Tag really only makes sense if you don't think any other team is going to offer him a decent contract and he'll be happy to come back and play with essentially a 1-year prove-it deal that's less money than the Franchise Tag. 

So I don't think it really makes sense here as I think it just the same end result as letting him walk, but with an extra step in between. Unless they're really entertaining paying him and think that his market won't be as high as he and his agent think it is so they'll match a contract.

(02-15-2024, 01:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Franchise Tag: Expensive. Tee could negotiate with other teams for a contract but they'd have to give the Bengals two 1st round picks to sign him (will never happen for Tee).

Transition Tag: A little less expensive (still expensive). Tee could negotiate with other teams for a contract but the Bengals would have a chance to match the contract and retain Tee. Unlike the FT, there's no draft compensation attached to it. So if a team offers 4yr/$100m to Tee and the Bengals don't match it, Tee just leaves us for that team and we get nothing.

-***

And then there are two types of franchise tags as well. (Unless this changed since last season and I missed it.) There is the exclusive franchise tag (the most expensive tag), where a team has exclusive negotiating rights, and players have to either play with that team or sit out the entire season. And there is the non-exclusive version, where they can sign with another team and the current team can match or let the player go for two first-round draft picks. 

So, unless something changed, really there are three categories of tags: exclusive franchise, non-exclusive franchise, and transition.

I would think the Bengals would go for the non-exclusive franchise tag, which is what teams most commonly do.

(02-15-2024, 01:43 PM)Nepa Wrote: And then there are two types of franchise tags as well. (Unless this changed since last season and I missed it.) There is the exclusive franchise tag (the most expensive tag), where a team has exclusive negotiating rights, and players have to either play with that team or sit out the entire season. And there is the non-exclusive version, where they can sign with another team and the current team can match or let the player go for two first-round draft picks. 

So, unless something changed, really there are three categories of tags: exclusive franchise, non-exclusive franchise, and transition.

I would think the Bengals would go for the non-exclusive franchise tag, which is what teams most commonly do.

Yeah. Apparently there's only been 4 players in the last 12 years who got the exclusive tag and none in the last 6 years... so when someone just says franchise tag I think it's just generally accepted that they're talking about the non-exclusive variety. 

(02-15-2024, 11:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Didn't we?
Bates also made the 2nd team All Pro by Associated Press back in 2020.
He was pretty consistent to average around 3 INTs, 9 PBUs, and around 100 tackles in a season while in Cincy.
He did even better in ATL this past year with 6 INTs, 11 PBUs, and 132 tackles, but he also was playing in a division with the best QB being Baker Mayfield and not great running games in CAR, NO, and TB.

Personally, I'm not surprised he played well.
I just didn't think it would make sense to pay that much for a DB given all the money the Bengals had tied up in other positions.

Well I didn't think Bates would play THAT good. It was by far his best season after getting that contract. I have always loved his range and 
his ability to cover, but his tackling has always been a bit questionable. The Dax Hill selection shown we were moving on and I agree with 
your last sentence that it wouldn't of made sense to pay Bates what he got with Atlanta. We have to pay big money in the trenches and hope
Dax Hill works out which I think he will and may end up better than Bates in the long run yah never know.

Love Jordan Battle which is a great start at Safety. Tycen Anderson is also a talent, we might be just fine at Safety.

But back to the thread, I think we do the non-exclusive Francise Tag with Tee as Nepa and TLL note is the most likely.

(02-15-2024, 01:54 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yeah. Apparently there's only been 4 players in the last 12 years who got the exclusive tag and none in the last 6 years... so when someone just says franchise tag I think it's just generally accepted that they're talking about the non-exclusive variety. 

Who was the last player to get the exclusive tag? Lev Bell?

(02-15-2024, 08:38 PM)jason Wrote: Who was the last player to get the exclusive tag? Lev Bell?

Yup, him and Kirk Cousins in 2017. Von Miller in 2016 and Drew Brees in 2012.

(02-15-2024, 01:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Franchise Tag: Expensive. Tee could negotiate with other teams for a contract but they'd have to give the Bengals two 1st round picks to sign him (will never happen for Tee).

Transition Tag: A little less expensive (still expensive). Tee could negotiate with other teams for a contract but the Bengals would have a chance to match the contract and retain Tee. Unlike the FT, there's no draft compensation attached to it. So if a team offers 4yr/$100m to Tee and the Bengals don't match it, Tee just leaves us for that team and we get nothing.

- - - - -

He's theoretically tradeable under both of them, but he'd have to sign the tag before the Bengals could trade him. So not only would the Bengals then have to hold onto ~$20m of cap space for Tee that they couldn't spend in FA while there's still FAs worth it, it could also stretch to the draft which means the Bengals wouldn't be able to trade him for 2024 draft picks.

The Transition Tag really only makes sense if you don't think any other team is going to offer him a decent contract and he'll be happy to come back and play with essentially a 1-year prove-it deal that's less money than the Franchise Tag. 

So I don't think it really makes sense here as I think it just the same end result as letting him walk, but with an extra step in between. Unless they're really entertaining paying him and think that his market won't be as high as he and his agent think it is so they'll match a contract.

Yeah the transition tag would be a bad risk.  It takes one desperate team to make too long or to high of a guaranteed deal. The worst part is they likely won't get a comp pick this year since we will be signing one or two larger deals at other positions like DT for example.  Even if they keep Reader and Jonah and no pick offset happens, you lose one year of Tee's chemistry and ability, for a 3rd or 4th next year. 

I think we try these simulators and remember playing Madden and think we can sponsor the 21M better than tagging Tee.  That simulator the gym in the Hobspin thread ran was realistic up until banking on Madubuike being there on the 2nd wave and taking 13M/yr.  I just don't see risking losing Tee for nothing. 

Tag-and-trade speculation about Tee: https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/02/19/tee-higgins-tag-trade-bengals/

(02-21-2024, 10:04 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Tag-and-trade speculation about Tee: https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/02/19/tee-higgins-tag-trade-bengals/

I love Tee and if we could work out an extension for less than what the franchise tag would cost, I'm all for it. But, at this point, I would rather trade him and use that money on other, more essential areas of need.

(02-21-2024, 10:04 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Tag-and-trade speculation about Tee: https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/02/19/tee-higgins-tag-trade-bengals/

If the Bengals could get a first round pick in this year's draft, as the author of that piece speculates, then I am all for trading him. There are quite a few good WRs that will be available in the first round, including some of comparable size. 

The Chiefs traded Tyreek Hill for a first and second round pick, as well as two fourths and a sixth. But I would be content with a first-round pick for Higgins. It would take a lot of financial pressure off signing Chase long-term and the danger of losing Higgins next year for nothing.