I’m going to anoint these guys as experts and accept everything they say as gospel because…why not?

The Bengals are very responsible with their management of the salary cap and dead cap space. They don't sign contracts that they don't have at least a 90% assurance will be played out in their entirety or else structure them such that the last year or two of a contract has little or no dead cap if the player were to be cut.

They don't dabble much in void contracts or converting annual salary cap numbers into bonuses that can be spread out across multiple years to back load contracts with the intention of competing now and dealing with the consequences later.

These are generally accepted facts and admirable on an objective scale.

But I sure wish they'd bend their rules every once in a while just to get that impact player that might push us over the edge.

(02-18-2024, 02:46 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The Bengals are very responsible with their management of the salary cap and dead cap space. They don't sign contracts that they don't have at least a 90% assurance will be played out in their entirety or else structure them such that the last year or two of a contract has little or no dead cap if the player were to be cut.

They don't dabble much in void contracts or converting annual salary cap numbers into bonuses that can be spread out across multiple years to back load contracts with the intention of competing now and dealing with the consequences later.

These are generally accepted facts and admirable on an objective scale.

But I sure wish they'd bend their rules every once in a while just to get that impact player that might push us over the edge.

The combination of Katie Blackburn assuming a larger role and the arrival of Zac has been the difference . But in similar fashion I tell this story. FSU lost Jimbo Fisher to A&M not just because of the huge salary offer but their reluctance to upgrade their football facilities. It was a wake-up call. What’d they do? Improve their football facilities and Mike Norvell and the program rebounded. To a lesser extent Lincoln Riley left Oklahoma for USC because he perceived OU wasn’t ramping up for the SEC. At the Bengals they needed to make some changes. They wanted a young coach with fresh ideas. Duke looks like he may have been neutered under Mike’s thumb. Him and Zac work famously together. Zac had a plan and he wowed them with it in his interview as he did with Arizona & Denver. It was on the culture. Drafting team captains and EXTREMELY high character guys. Told the scouting department to exhaustively look at their mannerisms and interactions with their teammates and coaches. Research their character by asking people about them. It was also the same strategy with FA’s. No more Trey Wayne’s. See Ted Karras. See Orlando Brown.

And then of course Katie was more willing to do whatever it took to be competive but smart.

That being said 75% of this board doesn’t give 2 ______ because they haven’t won a Super Bowl. Or do they buy it. LOL KC has won a zillion SB’s who cares that we are 6-3 vs SF,KC, and the Bills the last 3 years or won an AFC title, played in the SB, or 2 straight AFC title games LOL

(02-18-2024, 04:27 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: That being said 75% of this board doesn’t give 2 ______ because they haven’t won a Super Bowl. Or do they buy it. LOL KC has won a zillion SB’s who cares that we are 6-3 vs SF,KC, and the Bills the last 3 years or won an AFC title, played in the SB, or 2 straight AFC title games LOL

I find it odd you make up a random number of 75% to support your generalization about poster opinions.

I suppose I get get why because you make it a clear in a lot of posts: You're a huge Zac Taylor fan. I assume he's what made you follow the Bengals? I'm glad Taylor or anyone associated with the team brings new fans. I suppose, however, you wouldn't even follow the team without Taylor as coach and that is why you might not understand long time Bengals fans want a Super Bowl above all other measures of success.

(02-18-2024, 04:55 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I find it odd you make up a random number of 75% to support your generalization about poster opinions.

I suppose I get get why because you make it a clear in a lot of posts: You're a huge Zac Taylor fan. I assume he's what made you follow the Bengals? I'm glad Taylor or anyone associated with the team brings new fans. I suppose, however, you wouldn't even follow the team without Taylor as coach and that is why you might not understand long time Bengals fans want a Super Bowl above all other measures of success.

Literally no fan base cares about random records vs 3 random teams in 3 random years. Downplaying the Chiefs' zillion Super Bowl championships right before that sentence is even funnier.

(02-18-2024, 04:55 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I find it odd you make up a random number of 75% to support your generalization about poster opinions.

I suppose I get get why because you make it a clear in a lot of posts: You're a huge Zac Taylor fan. I assume he's what made you follow the Bengals? I'm glad Taylor or anyone associated with the team brings new fans. I suppose, however, you wouldn't even follow the team without Taylor as coach and that is why you might not understand long time Bengals fans want a Super Bowl above all other measures of success.

75% was random I don’t keep tabs. A lot follow from LSU because of Joe and Jamar. I understand the wanting of a Super Bowl. I don’t understand with the great turnaround the I don’t care about any success whatsoever unless it results in a Super Bowl mentality. Big difference. Winning in the NFL is hard on a regular basis. I don’t think Zac gets enough credit on here. He became the head coach late and it inhibited his hiring. Many however are still here and the continuity strong. And he didn’t hit on all of them but he did on quite a few. He was young out the gate and the roster aging and the culture not great. In year 3 he made the Super Bowl. Most predicted the towering inferno when Joe went down but they went 4-3. Yep I think there are a lot on here that really don’t give 2 ______ until a SB is won. Any success short of that is meaningless.

(02-18-2024, 05:13 PM)jason Wrote: Literally no fan base cares about random records vs 3 random teams in 3 random years. Downplaying the Chiefs' zillion Super Bowl championships right before that sentence is even funnier.

I’m not downplaying their SB wins. But I’m not downplaying our successes like they don’t matter like some.

(02-18-2024, 05:24 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: 75% was random I don’t keep tabs. A lot follow from LSU because of Joe and Jamar. I understand the wanting of a Super Bowl. I don’t understand with the great turnaround the I don’t care about any success whatsoever unless it results in a Super Bowl mentality. Big difference. Winning in the NFL is hard on a regular basis. I don’t think Zac gets enough credit on here. He became the head coach late and it inhibited his hiring. Many however are still here and the continuity strong. And he didn’t hit on all of them but he did on quite a few.  He was young out the gate and the roster aging and the culture not great. In year 3 he made the Super Bowl. Most predicted the towering inferno when Joe went down but they went 4-3. Yep I think there are a lot on here that really don’t give 2 ______ until a SB is won. Any success short of that is meaningless.

I think you may be setting the bar too low relative to the team's potential.


Before Joe Burrow, all I wanted was a single playoff win. I didn't even dare hope that we'd be Super Bowl contenders because it felt like the team was not capable of even competing for that level of success since we had not won a playoff game in going on 30 years (my entire lifetime).

So from 2011 to 2019, I just said "let's just win a playoff game. Get over that hump. And then, after we get used to winning playoff games, maybe we can build on that into real success."

We made the playoffs 5 years in a row, and each time I was just praying we'd get that 1 win. 

and we never did.

That's what made 2021 so surreal. We got the first playoff win in 30 years...then we got another...and another....and then we were literal minutes (and 1 penalty) away from winning the first Super Bowl in franchise history.

In 2022, I didn't dare to think that should be the new standard. Despite the success in 2021, we still felt like underdogs, since so much of our success was predicated on big bombs to Chase and the defense inexplicably shutting down Patrick Mahomes in the 2nd half of the AFC CG.

But, as the season went on, we stopped being a chippy under dog and started behaving like a true contender. 

By the time we reached the playoffs, we had not lost a game in almost 3 months. We felt like the favorites rather than the underdogs.

And we played like it in Buffalo (the Baltimore game was a bit iffy, but that's division rivals for you).

The problems occurred when we were entering the AFC CG with half an Oline, and then more injuries followed iirc.

Despite it all, we still only lost by 3 points and should have gone to overtime if not for a horrendous punt and a really bad penalty.

Coming into the 2023 season, why would Bengals fans settle for something less than winning or at least reaching the Super Bowl?

That doesn't really make sense to me. Of course that's the new goal. We've already crushed all the other goals. It's time to get that SB.

Admittedly, some fans go a little crazy, calling for Zac to be fired for this or that. But that's literally every fan base. I don't think having high expectations is equivalent to not appreciating the success we've had.

(02-18-2024, 05:27 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I’m not downplaying their SB wins. But I’m not downplaying our successes like they don’t matter like some.

Our improvements and recent success shouldn't be downplayed, and believe me... We're all happy about it. Some fans just complain to complain. I'm sure they complain about other things in their real lives too. Others just like to be right, and it makes them appear as though they are rooting against our success sometimes.

Nobody outside of our fam base is gonna notice or care until we get the job done though. We're right there. Just have to finish it now.

(02-18-2024, 05:34 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think you may be setting the bar too low relative to the team's potential.


Before Joe Burrow, all I wanted was a single playoff win. I didn't even dare hope that we'd be Super Bowl contenders because it felt like the team was not capable of even competing for that level of success since we had not won a playoff game in going on 30 years (my entire lifetime).

So from 2011 to 2019, I just said "let's just win a playoff game. Get over that hump. And then, after we get used to winning playoff games, maybe we can build on that into real success."

We made the playoffs 5 years in a row, and each time I was just praying we'd get that 1 win. 

and we never did.

That's what made 2021 so surreal. We got the first playoff win in 30 years...then we got another...and another....and then we were literal minutes (and 1 penalty) away from winning the first Super Bowl in franchise history.

In 2022, I didn't dare to think that should be the new standard. Despite the success in 2021, we still felt like underdogs, since so much of our success was predicated on big bombs to Chase and the defense inexplicably shutting down Patrick Mahomes in the 2nd half of the AFC CG.

But, as the season went on, we stopped being a chippy under dog and started behaving like a true contender. 

By the time we reached the playoffs, we had not lost a game in almost 3 months. We felt like the favorites rather than the underdogs.

And we played like it in Buffalo (the Baltimore game was a bit iffy, but that's division rivals for you).

The problems occurred when we were entering the AFC CG with half an Oline, and then more injuries followed iirc.

Despite it all, we still only lost by 3 points and should have gone to overtime if not for a horrendous punt and a really bad penalty.

Coming into the 2023 season, why would Bengals fans settle for something less than winning or at least reaching the Super Bowl?

That doesn't really make sense to me. Of course that's the new goal. We've already crushed all the other goals. It's time to get that SB.

Admittedly, some fans go a little crazy, calling for Zac to be fired for this or that. But that's literally every fan base. I don't think having high expectations is equivalent to not appreciating the success we've had.

Great post. There’s not a thing wrong with having higher expectations as the team is close. There’s no reason to not be upset if they don’t win won soon. I’m not setting the bar too low. I’ve been extremely critical of the run game. Pollack is awful but it’s Zac job to fix it. I’m a lot more objective about Zac than people want to credit me with. I’ve been critical that they didn’t have a better feel for Jake. We should have sat Joe out early. Maybe they’d agree now too but they still missed on that. One more win and we make the playoffs.Should have made the playoffs. That was a failure. But you are right. Kyle Shanahan is getting blistered much more than Zac did losing the SB. Of course I’m looking at Notbiggio and Tony and a few others. Brownshoe was that way for awhile.

But not to derail the thread. The thread by 2 people not Bengal media that have a serious formula and say the Bengals are the smartest AFC franchise and it’s not been the case until about 5 years ago. All the credit does not go to Zac but who arrived 5 years ago?

(02-18-2024, 05:34 PM)jason Wrote: Our improvements and recent success shouldn't be downplayed, and believe me... We're all happy about it. Some fans just complain to complain. I'm sure they complain about other things in their real lives too. Others just like to be right, and it makes them appear as though they are rooting against our success sometimes.

Nobody outside of our fam base is gonna notice or care until we get the job done though. We're right there. Just have to finish it now.

And should be held accountable if they don’t. For those wishing they’d be more aggressive in roster management … since we are so close … after securing Chase they may. I may come across as defensive but Zac and Mixon my 2 guys catch a lot of crap on here. Orlando’s next I’d assume.

(02-18-2024, 05:58 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: I may come across as defensive but Zac and Mixon my 2 guys catch a lot of crap on here. Orlando’s next I’d assume.

You and the Oklahomans versus long time Bengals fans?

Sounds like an award Mike Brown can put on the refrigerator.

Interesting and very simple metrics. Straight data Of course one could add or subtract other pieces of data to change the numbers, but it looks viable.

It's good to see the Bengals getting notice as being well run after 2+ decades of being seen as a bottom 5 FO.

How can the Bengals be so smart? According to Hobson, the Bengals have very little cap space to work with. Hmmmm?

(02-18-2024, 02:46 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The Bengals are very responsible with their management of the salary cap and dead cap space. They don't sign contracts that they don't have at least a 90% assurance will be played out in their entirety or else structure them such that the last year or two of a contract has little or no dead cap if the player were to be cut.

They don't dabble much in void contracts or converting annual salary cap numbers into bonuses that can be spread out across multiple years to back load contracts with the intention of competing now and dealing with the consequences later.

These are generally accepted facts and admirable on an objective scale.

But I sure wish they'd bend their rules every once in a while just to get that impact player that might push us over the edge.

I agree with everything you said. Especially the last part.

Am a big Zac supporter but he has not been perfect and still growing as a HC imo.

Yet to just give him all the credit on the teams turnaround and ignore Katie's contributions is crazy. We've all been around long enough to know the Bengals never spent much money on FA's until she took over.

It seems to be a happy marriage between Zac and Katie. Although who knows, the Giggler may have gotten us there as well if was afforded this much of a monetary leash in FA.

Still believe Zac will grow into a great coach. Yet much like the Bengals fans want a SB win desperately, it will take that SB win for Zac to be considered a great coach when his stories final chapter is written into the books.

Hoping he succeeds but will always credit the FO as well for changing their mentality.

(02-19-2024, 07:38 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Am a big Zac supporter but he has not been perfect and still growing as a HC imo.

Yet to just give him all the credit on the teams turnaround and ignore Katie's contributions is crazy. We've all been around long enough to know the Bengals never spent much money on FA's until she took over.  

It seems to be a happy marriage between Zac and Katie. Although who knows, the Giggler may have gotten us there as well if was afforded this much of a monetary leash in FA.

Still believe Zac will grow into a great coach. Yet much like the Bengals fans want a SB win desperately, it will take that SB win for Zac to be considered a great coach when his stories final chapter is written into the books.

Hoping he succeeds but will always credit the FO as well for changing their mentality.

I agree, Katie isn't getting enough credit, but with outsiders like the guys in this video acknowledging it, maybe people are finally beginning to see. I'm not sure that Katie cares, and probably likes being in the shadows, so to speak, but she deserves some praise. Without her and her daughters, we likely still don't have a Ring of Honor, wouldn't have the stadium upgrades coming, wouldn't have stadium naming rights to generate funds, wouldn't have the fan engagement and social media presence, and Ken Riley likely isn't in the Hall of Fame. They put a lot of effort in behind the scenes and on social media for the push to get him to Canton. 
 

(02-18-2024, 02:46 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: The Bengals are very responsible with their management of the salary cap and dead cap space. They don't sign contracts that they don't have at least a 90% assurance will be played out in their entirety or else structure them such that the last year or two of a contract has little or no dead cap if the player were to be cut.

They don't dabble much in void contracts or converting annual salary cap numbers into bonuses that can be spread out across multiple years to back load contracts with the intention of competing now and dealing with the consequences later.

These are generally accepted facts and admirable on an objective scale.

But I sure wish they'd bend their rules every once in a while just to get that impact player that might push us over the edge.

(02-18-2024, 05:34 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I think you may be setting the bar too low relative to the team's potential.


Before Joe Burrow, all I wanted was a single playoff win. I didn't even dare hope that we'd be Super Bowl contenders because it felt like the team was not capable of even competing for that level of success since we had not won a playoff game in going on 30 years (my entire lifetime).

So from 2011 to 2019, I just said "let's just win a playoff game. Get over that hump. And then, after we get used to winning playoff games, maybe we can build on that into real success."

We made the playoffs 5 years in a row, and each time I was just praying we'd get that 1 win. 

and we never did.

That's what made 2021 so surreal. We got the first playoff win in 30 years...then we got another...and another....and then we were literal minutes (and 1 penalty) away from winning the first Super Bowl in franchise history.

In 2022, I didn't dare to think that should be the new standard. Despite the success in 2021, we still felt like underdogs, since so much of our success was predicated on big bombs to Chase and the defense inexplicably shutting down Patrick Mahomes in the 2nd half of the AFC CG.

But, as the season went on, we stopped being a chippy under dog and started behaving like a true contender. 

By the time we reached the playoffs, we had not lost a game in almost 3 months. We felt like the favorites rather than the underdogs.

And we played like it in Buffalo (the Baltimore game was a bit iffy, but that's division rivals for you).

The problems occurred when we were entering the AFC CG with half an Oline, and then more injuries followed iirc.

Despite it all, we still only lost by 3 points and should have gone to overtime if not for a horrendous punt and a really bad penalty.

Coming into the 2023 season, why would Bengals fans settle for something less than winning or at least reaching the Super Bowl?

That doesn't really make sense to me. Of course that's the new goal. We've already crushed all the other goals. It's time to get that SB.

Admittedly, some fans go a little crazy, calling for Zac to be fired for this or that. But that's literally every fan base. I don't think having high expectations is equivalent to not appreciating the success we've had.

Great posts CJD, you pretty much said everything, it is time to get that SB win no question. Like you said, we have hit on all the other 
goals. I think the team and the coach's feel the same way.

(02-19-2024, 01:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree, Katie isn't getting enough credit, but with outsiders like the guys in this video acknowledging it, maybe people are finally beginning to see. I'm not sure that Katie cares, and probably likes being in the shadows, so to speak, but she deserves some praise. Without her and her daughters, we likely still don't have a Ring of Honor, wouldn't have the stadium upgrades coming, wouldn't have stadium naming rights to generate funds, wouldn't have the fan engagement and social media presence, and Ken Riley likely isn't in the Hall of Fame. They put a lot of effort in behind the scenes and on social media for the push to get him to Canton. 
 

Yep, Katie has done a great job with everything you say here Wyche and doesn't get enough cred.