(02-28-2024, 10:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Reader is the nose. He'll be back. 

Next December last I checked, we need a NT by Training Camp at the latest. Hopefully we get one in Free Agency.

For smaller NTs all i wanna see is short strong arms. We cant have a small nose who get sswallowed. Thats all bad

(02-28-2024, 11:15 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Next December last I checked, we need a NT by Training Camp at the latest. Hopefully we get one in Free Agency.

Where do you get December from? 

I do think you are right about needing a NT at camp. But we can always bring Tupou back. Davis & Maxwell are both under contract. Tufele is signed and can play some nose.

To be frank, I think he'll be back well before December. Last time, he tore his quad on 10/11/20. Week 5. He played 48 snaps week 1 in 2021, 9/12. That's 11 months. He was in camp, practicing in August. 10 months. He played in the first pre-season game.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/reader-expects-to-play-in-bengals-preseason-opener/7KHVJG4TUVFSRH73NHYR5B4NXA/

This time, he said it is going easier. I'd put 10 months at the outside. He got hurt 12/16. 10 months would be 10/16. That is week 6. Likely sooner. I think opening day is probably fanciful, mid to late September? Early October?  I think that is not only doable, but probable.

Of course, he has a long way to go, but he is 3 months out of surgery and into rehab. We'll have a decent feel for it. If there was gonna be a major issue, I think we'd have seen it already. But he will miss some time. 

Even so, we won't pay big $$$ for a NT in FA. One, because other than DJ, there are not any out there worth the $$$. Two, because if we land a good DT in FA (Williams, Rankins, etc) or draft one, we can scrape by with that + Tupou/Day 3 pick until DJ gets back. Ideal? Certainly not. 

And IF Reader is back, and it sure sounded that way from Duke & ZT talking, we won't spend a high pick on a NT type with all the other holes/needs: RT, DT, WR, TE, CB, S, and P would all be above NT at that point. Maybe IOL too. 

I get the concern, but NT2 is a ways down on my list. Starting NT, high priority. 

1. WR2: Higgins, check. 
---------- 
2. NT: Reader 
3. RT: Most likely #18 but would pursue Smith & Onwenu in FA.  
4. DT-3T disruptor: pursue elite & near elite FAs (Jones, Wilkins, Williams). #18 only if OT solved in FA. Rd2 or Rd3 certainly in play. 
---------- 
5. WR3. Solution could be on team already. Boyd for value in play. Or any cheap FA. Most likely Rd2-Rd3 pick. Deep WR class. 
6. DB help. CB4 or S help. Or both. Depending on space after Reader and what happens at DT/OT in FA, I'd swing for fences here in FA (Johnson, Sneed, Winfield). Success very unlikely. Lot of good S guys in FA, would allow Hill to CB. Chido for value in play for me. 
7. TE1. I bring Sample & Hudson back. Wilcox probably too, at least to camp. I don't like the FA class, and overpaying for Schultz scares me since he is head & shoulders above the rest. Likely Rd2-Rd4 pick. 

That is 7 spots counting CB & S. If big swings connect, I figure we could sign Reader + $20 mil guy (Wilkins, Winfield, Johnson types) + $15 mil guy (Onwenu, Williams types). More if we do some restructuring/creative cap hit stuff. 

Then the top 4 picks write themselves. 

Heck, I'd rather spend big on an IOL FA (VOlson upgrade) or Townsend at P before NT2.

I've run a ton of mocks. The only times I take a NT high & end up liking it have been: 

1) We trade back from #18 to early 20s because Fuaga & Latham are gone to take Guyton or Mims (and it works) & get an extra 2nd or 3rd & I get Sweat or Jackson. 

2) I assume a goldilocks FA scenario where DT is off the board. Along with RT or multiple other slots (Schultz + Chido, Chido & Boyd, Bell & Chido, etc). 

Or both. 

It is not out of the question. I do like Sweat a lot. But him being there at #49 is unlikely and I certainly do not let DJ walk on the chance he will be. Once I make the decision to bring DJ back, then a high NT pick feels like overkill. 

(02-29-2024, 02:18 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Where do you get December from? 

I do think you are right about needing a NT at camp. But we can always bring Tupou back. Davis & Maxwell are both under contract. Tufele is signed and can play some nose.

To be frank, I think he'll be back well before December. Last time, he tore his quad on 10/11/20. Week 5. He played 48 snaps week 1 in 2021, 9/12. That's 11 months. He was in camp, practicing in August. 10 months. He played in the first pre-season game.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/reader-expects-to-play-in-bengals-preseason-opener/7KHVJG4TUVFSRH73NHYR5B4NXA/

This time, he said it is going easier. I'd put 10 months at the outside. He got hurt 12/16. 10 months would be 10/16. That is week 6. Likely sooner. I think opening day is probably fanciful, mid to late September? Early October?  I think that is not only doable, but probable.

Of course, he has a long way to go, but he is 3 months out of surgery and into rehab. We'll have a decent feel for it. If there was gonna be a major issue, I think we'd have seen it already. But he will miss some time. 

Even so, we won't pay big $$$ for a NT in FA. One, because other than DJ, there are not any out there worth the $$$. Two, because if we land a good DT in FA (Williams, Rankins, etc) or draft one, we can scrape by with that + Tupou/Day 3 pick until DJ gets back. Ideal? Certainly not. 

And IF Reader is back, and it sure sounded that way from Duke & ZT talking, we won't spend a high pick on a NT type with all the other holes/needs: RT, DT, WR, TE, CB, S, and P would all be above NT at that point. Maybe IOL too. 

I get the concern, but NT2 is a ways down on my list. Starting NT, high priority. 

1. WR2: Higgins, check. 
---------- 
2. NT: Reader 
3. RT: Most likely #18 but would pursue Smith & Onwenu in FA.  
4. DT-3T disruptor: pursue elite & near elite FAs (Jones, Wilkins, Williams). #18 only if OT solved in FA. Rd2 or Rd3 certainly in play. 
---------- 
5. WR3. Solution could be on team already. Boyd for value in play. Or any cheap FA. Most likely Rd2-Rd3 pick. Deep WR class. 
6. DB help. CB4 or S help. Or both. Depending on space after Reader and what happens at DT/OT in FA, I'd swing for fences here in FA (Johnson, Sneed, Winfield). Success very unlikely. Lot of good S guys in FA, would allow Hill to CB. Chido for value in play for me. 
7. TE1. I bring Sample & Hudson back. Wilcox probably too, at least to camp. I don't like the FA class, and overpaying for Schultz scares me since he is head & shoulders above the rest. Likely Rd2-Rd4 pick. 

That is 7 spots counting CB & S. If big swings connect, I figure we could sign Reader + $20 mil guy (Wilkins, Winfield, Johnson types) + $15 mil guy (Onwenu, Williams types). More if we do some restructuring/creative cap hit stuff. 

Then the top 4 picks write themselves. 

Heck, I'd rather spend big on an IOL FA (VOlson upgrade) or Townsend at P before NT2.

I've run a ton of mocks. The only times I take a NT high & end up liking it have been: 

1) We trade back from #18 to early 20s because Fuaga & Latham are gone to take Guyton or Mims (and it works) & get an extra 2nd or 3rd & I get Sweat or Jackson. 

2) I assume a goldilocks FA scenario where DT is off the board. Along with RT or multiple other slots (Schultz + Chido, Chido & Boyd, Bell & Chido, etc). 

Or both. 

It is not out of the question. I do like Sweat a lot. But him being there at #49 is unlikely and I certainly do not let DJ walk on the chance he will be. Once I make the decision to bring DJ back, then a high NT pick feels like overkill. 

Would be shocked if Bengals were to sign Rankins even though he should be affordable at his age per they just don't go after Louisville players it seems. 

Believe somebody bleeds blue in the FO lol.

Well to be fair they don't target that many Kentucky players either which is odd with two big fanbases not loyal to any NFL team just 100 miles down the road in a state with no NFL teams. Plus many Ky fans are still Browns fans just from the Couch signing and obviously the Cardinal fans are mostly on the Ravens bandwagon per Lamar. 

Not saying they should do it just for that but they've passed on many of Cards that were very good NFL players. Lamar, Jaire Alexander, Bridgewater and YaYa Diaby, to name a few that could have helped. Really thought back in the day they would take Eric Wood since it was a position of need and he was from Cincinnati. 

(02-29-2024, 02:18 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Where do you get December from? 

I do think you are right about needing a NT at camp. But we can always bring Tupou back. Davis & Maxwell are both under contract. Tufele is signed and can play some nose.

To be frank, I think he'll be back well before December. Last time, he tore his quad on 10/11/20. Week 5. He played 48 snaps week 1 in 2021, 9/12. That's 11 months. He was in camp, practicing in August. 10 months. He played in the first pre-season game.

That would be fantastic if he were able to defy the odds for a second time, with pretty much the same injury.  However, every incident is unique in it's own way and might present complications that weren't present the first time he rehabbed a similar injury.  Also worth mentioning that he's now three years older, and has put his body through a lot of battles between then and now, which also might cause him to need the traditional amount of recovery time.

However, he's currently not even under contract.  There are no guarantees that his agent will be willing to have Reader to sign for a "let's see how this rehab goes" type of contract.  The Bengals were needing to think about restocking the NT shelf even before DJ went down with another catastrophic injury, as the guys underneath of him are all pretty much just "bodies".

Bottom line is that if the Bengals are going to improve upon the disastrous year they had in defending the run, they need a serious NT on the roster for training camp.  You know that all three of the teams in our division love to run the ball, right? 

(02-29-2024, 02:18 AM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Where do you get December from? 

I do think you are right about needing a NT at camp. But we can always bring Tupou back. Davis & Maxwell are both under contract. Tufele is signed and can play some nose.

To be frank, I think he'll be back well before December. Last time, he tore his quad on 10/11/20. Week 5. He played 48 snaps week 1 in 2021, 9/12. That's 11 months. He was in camp, practicing in August. 10 months. He played in the first pre-season game.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/reader-expects-to-play-in-bengals-preseason-opener/7KHVJG4TUVFSRH73NHYR5B4NXA/

This time, he said it is going easier. I'd put 10 months at the outside. He got hurt 12/16. 10 months would be 10/16. That is week 6. Likely sooner. I think opening day is probably fanciful, mid to late September? Early October?  I think that is not only doable, but probable.

Of course, he has a long way to go, but he is 3 months out of surgery and into rehab. We'll have a decent feel for it. If there was gonna be a major issue, I think we'd have seen it already. But he will miss some time. 

Even so, we won't pay big $$$ for a NT in FA. One, because other than DJ, there are not any out there worth the $$$. Two, because if we land a good DT in FA (Williams, Rankins, etc) or draft one, we can scrape by with that + Tupou/Day 3 pick until DJ gets back. Ideal? Certainly not. 

And IF Reader is back, and it sure sounded that way from Duke & ZT talking, we won't spend a high pick on a NT type with all the other holes/needs: RT, DT, WR, TE, CB, S, and P would all be above NT at that point. Maybe IOL too. 

I get the concern, but NT2 is a ways down on my list. Starting NT, high priority. 

1. WR2: Higgins, check. 
---------- 
2. NT: Reader 
3. RT: Most likely #18 but would pursue Smith & Onwenu in FA.  
4. DT-3T disruptor: pursue elite & near elite FAs (Jones, Wilkins, Williams). #18 only if OT solved in FA. Rd2 or Rd3 certainly in play. 
---------- 
5. WR3. Solution could be on team already. Boyd for value in play. Or any cheap FA. Most likely Rd2-Rd3 pick. Deep WR class. 
6. DB help. CB4 or S help. Or both. Depending on space after Reader and what happens at DT/OT in FA, I'd swing for fences here in FA (Johnson, Sneed, Winfield). Success very unlikely. Lot of good S guys in FA, would allow Hill to CB. Chido for value in play for me. 
7. TE1. I bring Sample & Hudson back. Wilcox probably too, at least to camp. I don't like the FA class, and overpaying for Schultz scares me since he is head & shoulders above the rest. Likely Rd2-Rd4 pick. 

That is 7 spots counting CB & S. If big swings connect, I figure we could sign Reader + $20 mil guy (Wilkins, Winfield, Johnson types) + $15 mil guy (Onwenu, Williams types). More if we do some restructuring/creative cap hit stuff. 

Then the top 4 picks write themselves. 

Heck, I'd rather spend big on an IOL FA (VOlson upgrade) or Townsend at P before NT2.

I've run a ton of mocks. The only times I take a NT high & end up liking it have been: 

1) We trade back from #18 to early 20s because Fuaga & Latham are gone to take Guyton or Mims (and it works) & get an extra 2nd or 3rd & I get Sweat or Jackson. 

2) I assume a goldilocks FA scenario where DT is off the board. Along with RT or multiple other slots (Schultz + Chido, Chido & Boyd, Bell & Chido, etc). 

Or both. 

It is not out of the question. I do like Sweat a lot. But him being there at #49 is unlikely and I certainly do not let DJ walk on the chance he will be. Once I make the decision to bring DJ back, then a high NT pick feels like overkill. 

KillerGoose in the thread about Burrow, Chase, Hubbard and Reader being at the Suns/Lakers game...

He shown examples that said it might be as late as December before Reader is 100% and ready to go again. I do like that we still have
Davis and especially Maxwell still on the team, Maxwell's numbers in college were staggering in terms of Sacks and pressures. Maybe he 
might be the answer at 3-tech for all we know, but we still need to bring in a couple DT's. I like Tufele, but was disappointed in Tupou 
and Carter last year.

I agree with most of what you say here and hope you are right and KillerGoose's post is wrong and DJ is back way sooner than December.

McKinnley Jackson is my backup in the 2nd round as well if Sweat goes before then. I like your thought of trading back if Fuaga or Latham
are not there at 18.

(02-29-2024, 07:45 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Would be shocked if Bengals were to sign Rankins even though he should be affordable at his age per they just don't go after Louisville players it seems. 

Believe somebody bleeds blue in the FO lol.

Well to be fair they don't target that many Kentucky players either which is odd with two big fanbases not loyal to any NFL team just 100 miles down the road in a state with no NFL teams. Plus many Ky fans are still Browns fans just from the Couch signing and obviously the Cardinal fans are mostly on the Ravens bandwagon per Lamar. 

Not saying they should do it just for that but they've passed on many of Cards that were very good NFL players. Lamar, Jaire Alexander, Bridgewater and YaYa Diaby, to name a few that could have helped. Really thought back in the day they would take Eric Wood since it was a position of need and he was from Cincinnati. 

I don't like the snubbing of Louisville players either. You should never be closed minded about adding good players from any school.

Rankins would be a great grab for us while drafting our future NT in T'Vondre Sweat or McKinnley Jackson.

(02-29-2024, 03:31 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't like the snubbing of Louisville players either. You should never be closed minded about adding good players from any school.

Rankins would be a great grab for us while drafting our future NT in T'Vondre Sweat or McKinnley Jackson.

Not saying they do but it feels that way sometimes to me. 

(02-29-2024, 05:48 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Not saying they do but it feels that way sometimes to me. 

Yeah, it used to feel that way with OSU players as well until we drafted Sam Hubbard.

(02-29-2024, 05:57 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, it used to feel that way with OSU players as well until we drafted Sam Hubbard.

Well to be honest to many OSU homers in here think we should draft a few of there players almost every year and alot of them don't pan out. SO it would be a waste anyways. Their are exceptions but the last few years outside of a few good ones it hasnt been all that great.

(02-29-2024, 06:22 PM)pulses Wrote: Well to be honest to many OSU homers in here think we should draft a few of there players almost every year and alot of them don't pan out. SO it would be a waste anyways. Their are exceptions but the last few years outside of a few good ones it hasnt been all that great.

True enough, I am no OSU fan so I have no bias either way.

(02-29-2024, 06:22 PM)pulses Wrote: Well to be honest to many OSU homers in here think we should draft a few of there players almost every year and alot of them don't pan out. SO it would be a waste anyways. Their are exceptions but the last few years outside of a few good ones it hasnt been all that great.

I'd be optimistic if they took Cade Stover in the 3r/4th round, or even Michael Hall Jr. in either of those rounds.  Most of their good players that had eligibility remaining returned for a final Championship run, next year they will likely have a half dozen drafted in the top 50.

I am an OSU fan, but not a blind homer who cannot see things in their proper perspective.

(02-29-2024, 06:22 PM)pulses Wrote: Well to be honest to many OSU homers in here think we should draft a few of there players almost every year and alot of them don't pan out. SO it would be a waste anyways. There are exceptions but the last few years outside of a few good ones it hasnt been all that great.

I am an OSU fan. Ts, I'm not a blind homer that thinks all Bucks should be Bengals. Occasionally, I think certain Bucks would be good fits in Cincy. I was correct about Hubbard, but wrong about Chase Young.

 I'm not going to debate this in a thread about Tee. All I can suggest is for you go back to 2015 and look up the winners of ROTY award over the past decade. "Outside of a few good ones it hasn't been all that great", is almost laughable. Chances are pretty good that they will have another ROTY after the upcoming season as well.

(02-29-2024, 08:40 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I am an OSU fan. Ts, I'm not a blind homer that thinks all Bucks should be Bengals. Occasionally, I think certain Bucks would be good fits in Cincy. I was correct about Hubbard, but wrong about Chase Young.

 I'm not going to debate this in a thread about Tee. All I can suggest is for you go back to 2015 and look up the winners of ROTY award over the past decade. "Outside of a few good ones it hasn't been all that great", is almost laughable. Chances are pretty good that they will have another ROTY after the upcoming season as well.

I'm not sure that Pulses meant "OSU homers" in any sort of contentious kind of way.

(02-29-2024, 08:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm not sure that Pulses meant "OSU homers" in any sort of contentious kind of way.

No i did not. I knew someone would take it out of context they always do.

(02-29-2024, 08:48 PM)pulses Wrote: No i did not. I knew someone would take it out of context they always do.

I understand what you were saying, and it has merit here.  Ts, this should be expected considering the proximity of C-Bus and Cincy. I just felt that perhaps you used a poor choice of wording when the facts tell a different story. Lots of Bucks in the league having a lot of success. 

They're just not all great fits for our Bengals.

(02-29-2024, 09:21 PM)coachmcneil71 Wrote: I understand what you were saying, and it has merit here.  Ts, this should be expected considering the proximity of C-Bus and Cincy. I just felt that perhaps you used a poor choice of wording when the facts tell a different story. Lots of Bucks in the league having a lot of success. 

They're just not all great fits for our Bengals.

I'm in Indiana but only an hour from Cincy and my best friend is a die hard OSU fan so trust me i know.

(02-29-2024, 07:58 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'd be optimistic if they took Cade Stover in the 3r/4th round, or even Michael Hall Jr. in either of those rounds.  Most of their good players that had eligibility remaining returned for a final Championship run, next year they will likely have a half dozen drafted in the top 50.

I am an OSU fan, but not a blind homer who cannot see things in their proper perspective.

Yeah, would be all for drafting Stover and Hall Jr.

(02-29-2024, 03:26 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: KillerGoose in the thread about Burrow, Chase, Hubbard and Reader being at the Suns/Lakers game...

He shown examples that said it might be as late as December before Reader is 100% and ready to go again. I do like that we still have
Davis and especially Maxwell still on the team, Maxwell's numbers in college were staggering in terms of Sacks and pressures. Maybe he 
might be the answer at 3-tech for all we know, but we still need to bring in a couple DT's. I like Tufele, but was disappointed in Tupou 
and Carter last year.

I agree with most of what you say here and hope you are right and KillerGoose's post is wrong and DJ is back way sooner than December.

McKinnley Jackson is my backup in the 2nd round as well if Sweat goes before then. I like your thought of trading back if Fuaga or Latham
are not there at 18.

Jackson isn't a 2nd rounder more like a 3rd or 4th.

(03-01-2024, 03:46 PM)pulses Wrote: Jackson isn't a 2nd rounder more like a 3rd or 4th.

Might be a 5th or 6th. Smallish at 6-1, poor workout numbers, and he is an older prospect.