(03-05-2024, 07:30 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: There are a LOT of FA vet safeties out there. I think a Scott upgrade is incoming. 

I agree, tons of options and any way to get Dax more comfortable is a good move.

(03-06-2024, 12:58 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Bell is simply an older Battle, doesnt really solve our need for a FS.


Hamilton was basically the Ravens slot CB in dime situations and SS in in nickel. 


Lou's comments at the combine regarding Hilton would leave me to believe that cutting Mike isnt even a consideration.


Scott played primarily at FS, though he may be a better SS. Any Safety we bring in would be for FS purposes.

Dax actually had a better stat line in his 1st year starting than Bates did in 2021.  His development seems to be ok physically, but lacking experience or lacking the required thought process.

Yep, using Dax as the Slot at times and SS in the Nickel could really fit his strengths being his speed and the way he can shoot out
of a cannon and play aggressive. I am not saying to bench Hilton, but don't have Hilton on the big TE's, use Dax there who is bigger
and rangier.

(03-06-2024, 01:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree, especially with Hilton still on the roster.  Dax is an every down player IMHO.


Unpopular opinion, I think Dax could be a better NCB than Hilton.  Good team like KC have been targeting Hilton in the passing game for a couple of years now.

Agree, it would be more of a rotation at times with Dax and Mike to help against the bigger players. Mike is about the smallest Corner
in the NFL and no matter how much heart the guy has, it can hurt at times being so undersized.

(03-06-2024, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: How much of a NEED is it really though?

I personally think bailing on Hill already is going to do more harm for him than good.
There isn't a spot for him to get a good amount of snaps otherwise currently, as Hilton is covering slot and Battle covering SS.

What I think they ultimately need is a veteran backup at FS who can maybe help Hill while Hill continues to get the majority of snaps at FS.

Maybe a cheap old veteran like Amos or Gipson that could be ok if delegated to part-time player or backup?
Amos played >300 defensive snaps for HOU and was solid, but he wasn't a true starter. Amos is about to turn 31 years old next month.
Gipson was even better, playing almost 1000 defensive snaps last year with SF and the full-year starter, but he's also gonna turn 34 in August. He may not want to serve as a backup though, but he has played for rather cheap since 2020 ($3.2 mill and less each season).

You're not wrong. I mean, at least in terms of equating NEED with a hole, our needs are DT/NT (Reader), RT (Williams), WR3 (Boyd), and TE (Smith). 

The pass rushing DT, CB4 (Chido) and FS vet are second tier stuff. I mean, the Hill's are here and take 2 of those spots. But that does not mean a quality vet (or top pick) cannot be transformative. 

Beyond BJ we have nada at DT. Reader is a FA and injured. Tupou is a FA. And Carter/Tufele is our depth. One is actually a starter. Frightening. 

Ditto at CB. CTB, Turner, Hilton are the starters. Turner was shaky. Ivey played 24 snaps before having a serious injury. Davis is pure slot. George on PS. We have starters. But we NEED another guy who can play. Maybe two. 

I put S in the same category. Even if we run with Hill & Battle, Scott was atrocious and Anderson did not play one snap on D and is coming off a mid-season serious injury. We NEED another guy there. One who can play at a good level. Plus, FS is the QB of the D. It has to be a vet. 

I do not see it as giving up on Hill, more on Scott. He'll, not sure I cut him unless we need the cap space. As S#4 and a ST guy he is fine, and unless Anderson is healthy, we don't have another S. 

I still think Dax could fill in for Hilton eventually or grow into FS. But I want an older, experienced vet who can still play at a good level. 3rd contract type. The second contract guys usually are looking for a bag. 

(03-06-2024, 01:44 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I dont disagree, especially with Hilton still on the roster.  Dax is an every down player IMHO.


Unpopular opinion, I think Dax could be a better NCB than Hilton.  Good team like KC have been targeting Hilton in the passing game for a couple of years now.

To your second point; one of the reasons why I would move Hill to Nickleback is because he can be an all pro at that position. Vs he being an OK to good safety for his career. 

(03-06-2024, 03:15 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You're not wrong. I mean, at least in terms of equating NEED with a hole, our needs are DT/NT (Reader), RT (Williams), WR3 (Boyd), and TE (Smith). 

The pass rushing DT, CB4 (Chido) and FS vet are second tier stuff. I mean, the Hill's are here and take 2 of those spots. But that does not mean a quality vet (or top pick) cannot be transformative. 

Beyond BJ we have nada at DT. Reader is a FA and injured. Tupou is a FA. And Carter/Tufele is our depth. One is actually a starter. Frightening. 

Ditto at CB. CTB, Turner, Hilton are the starters. Turner was shaky. Ivey played 24 snaps before having a serious injury. Davis is pure slot. George on PS. We have starters. But we NEED another guy who can play. Maybe two. 

I put S in the same category. Even if we run with Hill & Battle, Scott was atrocious and Anderson did not play one snap on D and is coming off a mid-season serious injury. We NEED another guy there. One who can play at a good level. Plus, FS is the QB of the D. It has to be a vet. 

I do not see it as giving up on Hill, more on Scott. He'll, not sure I cut him unless we need the cap space. As S#4 and a ST guy he is fine, and unless Anderson is healthy, we don't have another S. 

I still think Dax could fill in for Hilton eventually or grow into FS. But I want an older, experienced vet who can still play at a good level. 3rd contract type. The second contract guys usually are looking for a bag. 

Upgrades at ALL those things you list will not happen all in this one offseason.
We'll see a few FAs added likely just replacing some departing guys.
The draft will add hopefully a few more immediate contributors.

We may have to settle for what's already in place in some spots and hope they grow further, as much as some may not want to hear that.

(03-06-2024, 01:21 PM)ochocincos Wrote: How much of a NEED is it really though?

I personally think bailing on Hill already is going to do more harm for him than good.
There isn't a spot for him to get a good amount of snaps otherwise currently, as Hilton is covering slot and Battle covering SS.

What I think they ultimately need is a veteran backup at FS who can maybe help Hill while Hill continues to get the majority of snaps at FS.

Maybe a cheap old veteran like Amos or Gipson that could be ok if delegated to part-time player or backup?
Amos played >300 defensive snaps for HOU and was solid, but he wasn't a true starter. Amos is about to turn 31 years old next month.
Gipson was even better, playing almost 1000 defensive snaps last year with SF and the full-year starter, but he's also gonna turn 34 in August. He may not want to serve as a backup though, but he has played for rather cheap since 2020 ($3.2 mill and less each season).

We dont need a backup, we need a starter that can play better than Hill.  We cant worry about hurting Hill's feelings by bringing in someone better.  Its about winning football games.  If Hill isnt getting the job done, we need to find someone that can.   Would it stunt Hill's development?  Maybe, but we cant keep him back there hoping he is going to learn while he is hurting the defense.

(03-06-2024, 04:01 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Upgrades at ALL those things you list will not happen all in this one offseason.
We'll see a few FAs added likely just replacing some departing guys.
The draft will add hopefully a few more immediate contributors.

We may have to settle for what's already in place in some spots and hope they grow further, as much as some may not want to hear that.

You are not wrong there either. We will have to settle in some spots. But we also have $44 mil in cap space. Plus it an extremely deep draft at OT, WR, and CB. At other spots, it is not gonna take much for an upgrade (Irv Smith, Robbins). 

Again, I will lay it out. 

1. FA #1. NT/DT. We bring Reader back. Say it isn't cheap. $10 mil. $34 mil in space. By Thanksgiving he is back to himself. Call it a wash. Again, I think it probably costs less (Y1), but maybe not.

2. FA #2. DT. Go big and bring in Wilkins. $25 mil. This is a huge upgrade to Hill. And Hill is a huge upgrade to Carter/Tupou as the #3 DT once Reader is back and he & Wilkins start. Plus, Wilkins is good enough to hold up vs the run with Hill until DJ gets back. If Reader is MORE expensive, I can always shift to L. Williams instead of Wilkins. $5-$8 mil cheaper, I'd expect. Still a BIG upgrade. $35 mil for DJ +1 DT. I don't think that is unrealistic cost wise.

3. FA #3. $9 mil left. FA safety. A vet in this market should be able to be had for $6 mil (or less). $5 mil left if we cut Scott. 

4. FA: value vet at TE. Hurst, Henry, etc. $5 mil should be more than enough. 

It is tight, but we just upgraded DT, S, and TE. 

#18 is RT. Immediate upgrades if Fuaga or Latham are there. If it is just Guyton or Mims, I try to move down a couple spots for a Day 2 pick. Maybe they are a wash with Jonah year 1 but with tons more upside. I can live with that. 

#49 is CB4 or WR3. #80 the other. IDK if we will get better than Boyd/Chido here, but neither were that good last year, and these guys will be cheaper. Pearsall/R. Wilson/Tampa + Melton/Carson/Hart/Jackson/Newton/J. Wilson/Corley. I will take it. 

Rd4. Take a TE to give you cushion or to take over for Hurst soon. Stover, Sinnott, or Johnson would be fantastic if they fall. Might even reach for Bell or Tip Reiman. 

Take Taylor in the 5th. That is a P upgrade. 

Last 4 picks, whatever I can get: IOL, RB, another DB, NT, LB. I live with the rest. 

I feel comfortable bringing back: Hudson, C. Sample, ADG, Ford, Scharping, Irwin, Tupou, Bailey, Bachie, and T. Williams to fill in holes. 

If I cannot get a stud DT, I shift to Onwenu. And the puck at #18 opens up (JPJ, Bowers, Murphy, CB1, etc). 

(03-06-2024, 05:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are not wrong there either. We will have to settle in some spots. But we also have $44 mil in cap space. Plus it an extremely deep draft at OT, WR, and CB. At other spots, it is not gonna take much for an upgrade (Irv Smith, Robbins). 

Again, I will lay it out. 

1. FA #1. NT/DT. We bring Reader back. Say it isn't cheap. $10 mil. $34 mil in space. By Thanksgiving he is back to himself. Call it a wash. Again, I think it probably costs less (Y1), but maybe not.

2. FA #2. DT. Go big and bring in Wilkins. $25 mil. This is a huge upgrade to Hill. And Hill is a huge upgrade to Carter/Tupou as the #3 DT once Reader is back and he & Wilkins start. Plus, Wilkins is good enough to hold up vs the run with Hill until DJ gets back. If Reader is MORE expensive, I can always shift to L. Williams instead of Wilkins. $5-$8 mil cheaper, I'd expect. Still a BIG upgrade. $35 mil for DJ +1 DT. I don't think that is unrealistic cost wise.

3. FA #3. $9 mil left. FA safety. A vet in this market should be able to be had for $6 mil (or less). $5 mil left if we cut Scott. 

4. FA: value vet at TE. Hurst, Henry, etc. $5 mil should be more than enough. 

It is tight, but we just upgraded DT, S, and TE. 

#18 is RT. Immediate upgrades if Fuaga or Latham are there. If it is just Guyton or Mims, I try to move down a couple spots for a Day 2 pick. Maybe they are a wash with Jonah year 1 but with tons more upside. I can live with that. 

#49 is CB4 or WR3. #80 the other. IDK if we will get better than Boyd/Chido here, but neither were that good last year, and these guys will be cheaper. Pearsall/R. Wilson/Tampa + Melton/Carson/Hart/Jackson/Newton/J. Wilson/Corley. I will take it. 

Rd4. Take a TE to give you cushion or to take over for Hurst soon. Stover, Sinnott, or Johnson would be fantastic if they fall. Might even reach for Bell or Tip Reiman. 

Take Taylor in the 5th. That is a P upgrade. 

Last 4 picks, whatever I can get: IOL, RB, another DB, NT, LB. I live with the rest. 

I feel comfortable bringing back: Hudson, C. Sample, ADG, Ford, Scharping, Irwin, Tupou, Bailey, Bachie, and T. Williams to fill in holes. 

If I cannot get a stud DT, I shift to Onwenu. And the puck at #18 opens up (JPJ, Bowers, Murphy, CB1, etc). 

#1 is a big red flag, from what i read, the expectation is he is not going to be ready for the season, no team is going to be signing him for 10 million without clearing to play... the bengals would be wasting $$ to sign him to 10 million and miss games right off the bat. Now if circumstances change maybe, they have to draft a DT with Reader issue and Hill being a FA in 2025.

Well we want a good veteran Safety, one just come available Poyer from Bills

(03-06-2024, 06:29 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: #1 is a big red flag, from what i read, the expectation is he is not going to be ready for the season, no team is going to be signing him for 10 million without clearing to play... the bengals would be wasting $$ to sign him to 10 million and miss games right off the bat.  Now if circumstances change maybe, they have to draft a DT with Reader issue and Hill being a FA in 2025.

I completely disagree with no one signing Reader. If he has a positive prognosis than someone will pay big money on him.

(03-06-2024, 07:12 PM)J24 Wrote: I completely disagree with no one signing Reader. If he has a positive prognosis than someone will pay big money on him.

If he's medically cleared, then the Bengals should pay big money for him.  However, if it looks like he's going to be out past mid-season, they need to have that position covered.

(03-06-2024, 06:31 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well we want a good veteran Safety, one just come available Poyer from Bills

Bills released a lot of players today:  cornerback Tre-Davious White, Poyer, starting center Mitch Morse, kick returner Deonte Harty, and DB Siran Neal. My concern with Poyer is just his age: 32. He was at one time an all-pro, however. 

(03-06-2024, 07:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If he's medically cleared, then the Bengals should pay big money for him.  However, if it looks like he's going to be out past mid-season, they need to have that position covered.

They need a backup NT even if Reade were able to to play week 1. I'm looking at signing a proven NT and drafting a nose tackle(mid rounds or earlier)+ signing reader this offseason.

(03-06-2024, 07:28 PM)J24 Wrote: They need a backup NT even if Reade were able to to play week 1. I'm looking at signing a proven NT and drafting a nose tackle(mid rounds or earlier)+ signing reader this offseason.

Agreed, and I think that is how many are viewing the situation.

(03-06-2024, 07:19 PM)Nepa Wrote: Bills released a lot of players today:  cornerback Tre-Davious White, Poyer, starting center Mitch Morse, kick returner Deonte Harty, and DB Siran Neal. My concern with Poyer is just his age: 32. He was at one time an all-pro, however. 

Mitch Morse was an All-Pro as well according to Ike, wouldn't mind adding Morse and moving Karras to LG. If White can get healthy by TC I
wouldn't mind bringing him in if somebody signs Chido in FA. Also like Poyer, always been a good Safety IMO.

(03-06-2024, 06:31 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well we want a good veteran Safety, one just come available Poyer from Bills

Man. Another quality option. I would love to add him.

I think this is the year we find our next vet that spends the twilight of his career playing S for the Bengals.

(03-06-2024, 08:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Mitch Morse was an All-Pro as well according to Ike, wouldn't mind adding Morse and moving Karras to LG. If White can get healthy by TC I
wouldn't mind bringing him in if somebody signs Chido in FA. Also like Poyer, always been a good Safety IMO.

Pro-Bowl in 2022. IIRC. 

As for Poyer, I think he is more of a SS at this point. Though someone pisted he played 300 snaps at FS. 

(03-06-2024, 05:42 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: You are not wrong there either. We will have to settle in some spots. But we also have $44 mil in cap space. Plus it an extremely deep draft at OT, WR, and CB. At other spots, it is not gonna take much for an upgrade (Irv Smith, Robbins). 

Again, I will lay it out. 

1. FA #1. NT/DT. We bring Reader back. Say it isn't cheap. $10 mil. $34 mil in space. By Thanksgiving he is back to himself. Call it a wash. Again, I think it probably costs less (Y1), but maybe not.

2. FA #2. DT. Go big and bring in Wilkins. $25 mil. This is a huge upgrade to Hill. And Hill is a huge upgrade to Carter/Tupou as the #3 DT once Reader is back and he & Wilkins start. Plus, Wilkins is good enough to hold up vs the run with Hill until DJ gets back. If Reader is MORE expensive, I can always shift to L. Williams instead of Wilkins. $5-$8 mil cheaper, I'd expect. Still a BIG upgrade. $35 mil for DJ +1 DT. I don't think that is unrealistic cost wise.

3. FA #3. $9 mil left. FA safety. A vet in this market should be able to be had for $6 mil (or less). $5 mil left if we cut Scott. 

4. FA: value vet at TE. Hurst, Henry, etc. $5 mil should be more than enough. 

It is tight, but we just upgraded DT, S, and TE. 

#18 is RT. Immediate upgrades if Fuaga or Latham are there. If it is just Guyton or Mims, I try to move down a couple spots for a Day 2 pick. Maybe they are a wash with Jonah year 1 but with tons more upside. I can live with that. 

#49 is CB4 or WR3. #80 the other. IDK if we will get better than Boyd/Chido here, but neither were that good last year, and these guys will be cheaper. Pearsall/R. Wilson/Tampa + Melton/Carson/Hart/Jackson/Newton/J. Wilson/Corley. I will take it. 

Rd4. Take a TE to give you cushion or to take over for Hurst soon. Stover, Sinnott, or Johnson would be fantastic if they fall. Might even reach for Bell or Tip Reiman. 

Take Taylor in the 5th. That is a P upgrade. 

Last 4 picks, whatever I can get: IOL, RB, another DB, NT, LB. I live with the rest. 

I feel comfortable bringing back: Hudson, C. Sample, ADG, Ford, Scharping, Irwin, Tupou, Bailey, Bachie, and T. Williams to fill in holes. 

If I cannot get a stud DT, I shift to Onwenu. And the puck at #18 opens up (JPJ, Bowers, Murphy, CB1, etc). 

I really don't see them making a big splash in FA on someone outside who costs $20+ mill at this point.
I think Onwenu might be about the most expensive outside FA the team would look to add.
I do think we'll look at 3-4 FAs including internal guys like Reader and then supplement the remaining spots in the draft.

My dream "realistic" FA at this point is probably Onwenu+Noah Fant both on 3-year deals and solidify those two spots for a good chunk of time.
Re-sign Reader on a 1-year or 2-year deal to bridge the gap for a draft pick at NT to be groomed.
Add a cheap veteran safety like Amos to help mentor and cover for Dax Hill if he does struggle some still this season.
If both of those first FAs can't be acquired due to cost, I'd like to prioritize Onwenu and then get someone like Hurst or re-sign Hudson for TE.
For a DT to go along with BJ Hill, I really think that will come in the draft.
Add a punter, another RB, maybe another CB in the draft.
If there's room, draft a WR too if there's not confidence Higgins signs a long-term deal.

Broncos just cut their all pro safety - things are shaping up perfect for us to grab a quality safety in free agency for a decent price.

(03-07-2024, 11:33 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Broncos just cut their all pro safety - things are shaping up perfect for us to grab a quality safety in free agency for a decent price.

Oh man. I'd love Simmons on the Bengals.

Anyone have a list of all the Safeties currently available? We can always edit the list as they become available or get signed by teams.

Edit: Never mind, the current free agent Safeties list is 61 names long..