(03-13-2024, 07:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This has been stated many times already. It's not a pretty similar situation at all....

AJ Brown was still under contract for 1yr/$1m
Tee Higgins is on a franchise tag for 1yr/$22m

If you give both guys 4yr/$100m extensions, AJ Brown is now under control for 5yr/$101m ($20.2m/yr) while Higgins would be under control for 5yr/$122m ($24.4m). That is a HUGE difference in value for a WR that has 1 year of $1m team control left.

The Titans drafted the rookie to be their #1 receiving target. The Bengals would draft a WR to be their #2 WR behind Ja'Marr Chase. One team had nobody else, the other team has a top-10 WR who will carry the majority of the load.

I think you are getting caught up in the numbers a bit.

It's a pretty simple comparison. Both are underutilized WRs looking for a big contract.

(03-13-2024, 06:55 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: The Titans traded AJ Brown for the 18th overall pick in the draft.
AJ Brown didn't do much with the Titans. He didn't really start to ball out until he went to Philly.

This is a pretty similar situation.
The Titans drafted a WR (with the aquired pick) that hasn't really panned out.

I don't blame the Bengals for holding out for more value.
Having Tee is more valuable in their eyes than having a late 1st round pick because of what he can do for the team on the field.
Most would think the 18th overall pick would be great value for Tee right now. 
What will we think if he goes off like AJ Brown did?
He has that potential.
He's never been fully utilized by the coaches, nor has Chase.
This offense should be much more explosive than it is.
It should get to that point (of explosiveness similar to Philly) and then we should be able to talk about trading Tee for much more.

Maybe holding on to him isn't the worst move.
They hit on the draft pick. 
The Bengals don't hit on all of their draft picks.
Maybe it makes sense to try to keep him for a little while.

Bengals missed Burrow (injury) Higgins and Chase. I would love to see these 3 play all 17 regular season games in 2024. It is hard to judge an offense missing a future HOF QB replaced by an undrafted QB (who did well, but he is not Burrow).

(03-13-2024, 07:08 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I think you are getting caught up in the numbers a bit.

It's a pretty simple comparison. Both are underutilized WRs looking for a big contract.

I think you're ignoring that $21m extra dollars isn't something that can be handwaved away with zero loss in trade value. That's a huge amount of extra cap flexibility. Not even adding on Tee coming off a 650 yard season.

(03-13-2024, 07:17 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I think you're ignoring that $21m extra dollars isn't something that can be handwaved away with zero loss in trade value. That's a huge amount of extra cap flexibility. Not even adding on Tee coming off a 650 yard season.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I see these things you mention as very minor and you see them as insurmountable. 

The tag and trade is not a new phenomenon. Davante Adams comes to mind.

Tee having a down year is a good reason not to sell him when his value is low.

(03-13-2024, 06:55 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: What will we think if he goes off like AJ Brown did?
He has that potential.
He's never been fully utilized by the coaches, nor has Chase.
This offense should be much more explosive than it is...

So.... the Bengals offense is holding Higgins back? and Chase too.

(03-13-2024, 07:21 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: I guess we can agree to disagree. I see these things you mention as very minor and you see them as insurmountable. 

The tag and trade is not a new phenomenon. Davante Adams comes to mind.

Tee having a down year is a good reason not to sell him when his value is low.

Pretty sure you really need to look up the meaning up that word if you think I said him being tagged made a trade insurmountable. 

I just said it lowered his value compared to what it could have been if he was traded last offseason, so we won't get as much for Tee as Ten got for AJ Brown, because now their situations are different.

(03-13-2024, 07:25 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: So.... the Bengals offense is holding Higgins back? and Chase too.

I think the offense has under-performed for the talent level on the team, yes. 
It's primarily due to a lack of balance. 
At times Zac calls some great drives and the Bengals move the ball down the field with ease.
It's not consistent enough though.
I see an offense like Philly or KC as what the Bengals are capable of.
We haven't achieved that kind of success in terms of consistently blowing teams out on offense.
On paper the team is better. The Bengals win a lot of close games, and often struggle to put up points.

(03-13-2024, 07:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pretty sure you really need to look up the meaning up that word if you think I said him being tagged made a trade insurmountable. 

I just said it lowered his value compared to what it could have been if he was traded last offseason, so we won't get as much for Tee as Ten got for AJ Brown, because now their situations are different.

Sorry I guess I misunderstood what you were saying. 

If you look at the haul for Davante Adams, it didn't seem like the tag lowered the value the Packers received. They made out pretty well.

I'm just saying maybe it makes sense if his value is lower, he's more valuable on the team than he is in a trade.

(03-11-2024, 01:21 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That $21.8m gets hit with local, state, and federal taxes. 

Sauce Gardner was in the news when he signed his $33.45m rookie deal, and it came out he'd probably only get $17.4m of that after all the various taxes, or 52%.

You need at least $3m over a lifetime for a basic middle class life (which lets be honest, NFL players aren't going to go to a $70k/yr lifestyle) and even that's only quickly increasing with inflation. The ~$13m (we have some less taxes than NY/NJ) that Tee would see out of that isn't enough for his grandchildren to have wealth, so it wouldn't be generational but just a generation.

Yeah, I've given some though to that whole "generational wealth" thing that they only have a "short time" to earn.  I think that's bullshit.  Even the NFL minimum (around $900,000) is about 15X the average ($60,000) salary for a typical American worker.  If a rookie makes it to the NFL and lasts at least 2 seasons, they will have earned as much as the typical American worker over a 30 year career.

You talk about all the billions that the NFL generates, big deal.  Most companies and corporations that most Americans work hard for, for peanuts in comparison, also make absurd amounts of money.  Just like VPs and CEOs make 20-30X what a line worker makes, the NFL provides that for even the average of their employees.  If an athlete completes a rookie contract and isn't set for life?  That sounds like his own problem, and not the league's.  Just like the Superstar who might have a career ending injury, if he made XX million on the year before, he is also set for life.  They all know going in that the NFL is a fleeting thing for most and that if you stick around your body will be not the same.  They also had plenty of education and coaching along the way to let them know to prepare themselves for a life other than football.

(03-13-2024, 08:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I've given some though to that whole "generational wealth" thing that they only have a "short time" to earn.  I think that's bullshit.  Even the NFL minimum (around $900,000) is about 15X the average ($60,000) salary for a typical American worker.  If a rookie makes it to the NFL and lasts at least 2 seasons, they will have earned as much as the typical American worker over a 30 year career.

You talk about all the billions that the NFL generates, big deal.  Most companies and corporations that most Americans work hard for, for peanuts in comparison, also make absurd amounts of money.  Just like VPs and CEOs make 20-30X what a line worker makes, the NFL provides that for even the average of their employees.  If an athlete completes a rookie contract and isn't set for life?  That sounds like his own problem, and not the league's.  Just like the Superstar who might have a career ending injury, if he made XX million on the year before, he is also set for life.  They all know going in that the NFL is a fleeting thing for most and that if you stick around your body will be not the same.  They also had plenty of education and coaching along the way to let them know to prepare themselves for a life other than football.

Tee is getting what 21 million for the tag? Say he gets to keep 60% after taxes. So about 12.6 million.

He could buy 10 million worth of 20 year treasury bonds this year that are sitting at a 4.5% rate with basically no risk. And collect $450,000 every year for the next 20 years. And still get his initial investment back plus some at the end.

That is generational wealth imo.

(03-13-2024, 07:04 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: This has been stated many times already. It's not a pretty similar situation at all....

AJ Brown was still under contract for 1yr/$1m
Tee Higgins is on a franchise tag for 1yr/$22m

If you give both guys 4yr/$100m extensions, AJ Brown is now under control for 5yr/$101m ($20.2m/yr) while Higgins would be under control for 5yr/$122m ($24.4m). That is a HUGE difference in value for a WR that has 1 year of $1m team control left.

The Titans drafted the rookie to be their #1 receiving target. The Bengals would draft a WR to be their #2 WR behind Ja'Marr Chase. One team had nobody else, the other team has a top-10 WR who will carry the majority of the load.

It’s a very similar situation.

(03-13-2024, 08:28 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Tee is getting what 21 million for the tag? Say he gets to keep 60% after taxes. So about 12.6 million.

He could buy 10 million worth of 20 year treasury bonds this year that are sitting at a 4.5% rate with basically no risk. And collect $450,000 every year for the next 20 years. And still get his initial investment back plus some at the end.

That is generational wealth imo.

Not to mention if he accepted say 4 years $80 million, which I’m sure is well below what he wants, that’s generational wealth. I’m not saying he should take less, but let’s not pretend like that kind of money can’t carry on and even get bigger.

(03-13-2024, 08:28 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Tee is getting what 21 million for the tag? Say he gets to keep 60% after taxes. So about 12.6 million.

He could buy 10 million worth of 20 year treasury bonds this year that are sitting at a 4.5% rate with basically no risk. And collect $450,000 every year for the next 20 years. And still get his initial investment back plus some at the end.

That is generational wealth imo.

That’s not generational wealth. That’s just wealth. $450k for 20 years isn’t generational. It’s just good living. $450k/year goes quick with a nice house and kids.

That's way too much to give up.

Tee Higgins wants to be traded by the #Bengals…
Justin Jefferson may not be happy that the #Vikings didn’t retain the services of Kirk Cousins…

Vikings could package picks to move up to get a QB.

Vikings Get:
Tee Higgins
Rd1(18)
Rd2(49)
2025 Rd1

Bengals Get:
Justin Jefferson pic.twitter.com/ME9hTMlHDu

— Ron Johnson (@3RonJohnson) March 13, 2024

(03-13-2024, 07:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Pretty sure you really need to look up the meaning up that word if you think I said him being tagged made a trade insurmountable. 

I just said it lowered his value compared to what it could have been if he was traded last offseason, so we won't get as much for Tee as Ten got for AJ Brown, because now their situations are different.

Pretty sure a huge reason AJ was traded was because he wasn't going to play on that rookie deal. About a minute after he was traded he signed a $100 Mil contract. Imma go out on a limb and say all parties new this was going to happen. 

(03-13-2024, 11:09 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: That’s not generational wealth. That’s just wealth. $450k for 20 years isn’t generational. It’s just good living. $450k/year goes quick with a nice house and kids.

You forget Higgins was already paid 8.6 million, sorry, earned over 5 million after taxes. That house should already be paid for in Cincinnati. Not to mention you cash out the investment after 20 years. Although Ohio may not be the best state for TBills, since you only pay fed taxes, not state or local taxes on them.  Although recent TBill investments are offering up to 5.3%. And you can avoid federal taxes by using money to pay for your or your child's college. Just another benefit for the wealthy 

(03-13-2024, 11:09 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: That’s not generational wealth. That’s just wealth. $450k for 20 years isn’t generational. It’s just good living. $450k/year goes quick with a nice house and kids.

I even left him with 2.6 million just from this year to spend on whatever he wants.

So the house should be bought and paid for.

Don’t blow your money and don’t impregnate 7 different baby mommas and pay child support and any non moron should be loaded for the rest of their life making $450,000 for the next 20 years and then getting a 10+ million lump sum back at the end.

(03-14-2024, 12:04 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Pretty sure a huge reason AJ was traded was because he wasn't going to play on that rookie deal. About a minute after he was traded he signed a $100 Mil contract. Imma go out on a limb and say all parties new this was going to happen. 

Yes, a 4yr/$100m extension.

Which as I showed up above your post...

Quote:If you give both guys 4yr/$100m extensions, AJ Brown is now under control for 5yr/$101m ($20.2m/yr) while Higgins would be under control for 5yr/$122m ($24.4m).

You could give both the exact same contract extension, and Higgins would still on average cost $4.2m/yr more over those 5 years, or almost 21% more. That's a significant amount.

In the case of the Eagles, because of that $1m base salary in 2022 they managed to get a $5.6m cap hit for AJ Brown, which let them add so many guys to that dominant DL that took them to the SB.

(03-14-2024, 12:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Yes, a 4yr/$100m extension.

Which as I showed up above your post...

You could give both the exact same contract extension, and Higgins would still on average cost $4.2m/yr more over those 5 years, or almost 21% more. That's a significant amount.

If you are paying someone $20-$25m/year over 4+ years, you anticipate/expect elite production. I seriously doubt that the trade compensation changes that much.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-willing-trade-tee-higgins

James Rapien posted an article stating that several teams are reporting that the bengals have softened their stance on a trade.

I still don’t think he’s being traded for a day 2 pick. They value their players too much and it has to be a day 1 pick or they find it more valuable to keep him for a title run this year.

(03-24-2024, 01:46 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bengals-willing-trade-tee-higgins

James Rapien posted an article stating that several teams are reporting that the bengals have softened their stance on a trade.

I still don’t think he’s being traded for a day 2 pick. They value their players too much and it has to be a day 1 pick or they find it more valuable to keep him for a title run this year.

Article specifically mentions Patriots as a suitor. They have the 2nd pick in the 2nd round (34th overall). I would take that, see if you can get a 5th or 6th added on, but 34th overall is still a good return for a guy on franchise tag coming off a bad year who doesn't want to be here and has zero chance of a long term deal.

Then bring back Boyd for 1 year with like half of the money opened up by trading Tee so we don't have to see him in a Steelers uniform and so the rookie WR we take isn't crucial to our SB chances.