(03-15-2024, 01:24 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Ian Rapoport
@RapSheet
·
4m
#Bengals FA WR Trenton Irwin is signing back with Cincy, source said, as he gets a shot at being the third WR. He gets a 1-year deal worth $2M.

Happy for him. And glad to have him back. Generally a quite dependable receiver, with some clutch catches. 

Okay. Filling out the WR room makes sense. We usually keep 6 and now five at least are spoken for.

(03-15-2024, 01:34 PM)Nepa Wrote: Happy for him. And glad to have him back. Generally a quite dependable receiver, with some clutch catches. 

I always liked Irwin. He seems pretty sure handed and has good upside. Seems smart and hard-working. He could develop into a very reliable receiver for us.

He earned it.

(03-14-2024, 07:02 PM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: With all this leftover cap space, they should have signed Tee to an extension.

Now he’s tagged and likely pissed off about it. Have a feeling he’s not exactly going to tough out many bumps and bruises next year.

I remember when we were debating whether to extend Jonah or Tee. We got neither.

I'm thinking that ship has sailed.

When you don't even communicate at all for a year and then go right to the tag you've created a relational breach.

I mean I know it's a business.   But - especially with our team culture - the players clearly want to be treated as people not assets.

We did the same with thing Jesse Bates.   For crying out loud keep the pro bowlers in house and stop stringing things out.  How are you supposed to field a championship team when you play Walmart roulette with your best players?

(03-15-2024, 01:44 PM)3wt Wrote: I'm thinking that ship has sailed.

When you don't even communicate at all for a year and then go right to the tag you've created a relational breach.

I mean I know it's a business.   But - especially with our team culture - the players clearly want to be treated as people not assets.

We did the same with thing Jesse Bates.   For crying out loud keep the pro bowlers in house and stop stringing things out.  How are you supposed to field a championship team when you play Walmart roulette with your best players?

I do not believe for a minute that the Bengals went dark with Higgins. If there were no discussions for a year, it’s because that ponce Mulugheta told them not to waste his time. Don’t like our FO, but this accusation flies in the face of their well-established precedent regarding keeping good players here.

(03-15-2024, 01:44 PM)3wt Wrote: I'm thinking that ship has sailed.

When you don't even communicate at all for a year and then go right to the tag you've created a relational breach.

I mean I know it's a business.   But - especially with our team culture - the players clearly want to be treated as people not assets.

We did the same with thing Jesse Bates.   For crying out loud keep the pro bowlers in house and stop stringing things out.  How are you supposed to field a championship team when you play Walmart roulette with your best players?

Sorry but I don't believe David Mulugheta for a minute - he is notorious for lying on social media to push teams to move to his position. 

(03-15-2024, 01:44 PM)3wt Wrote: I'm thinking that ship has sailed.

When you don't even communicate at all for a year and then go right to the tag you've created a relational breach.

I mean I know it's a business.   But - especially with our team culture - the players clearly want to be treated as people not assets.

We did the same with thing Jesse Bates.   For crying out loud keep the pro bowlers in house and stop stringing things out.  How are you supposed to field a championship team when you play Walmart roulette with your best players?

Agreed. With so much cap space, we managed it horribly. Here is $16M right here. You’re telling me we can’t lock up Tee with that (adding to his 21M cap)
? Or, even better, instead of getting rankins for $13 per, give Christian Wilkins $28 with the 13 from Rankin and 15 from These guys below. Are we a better team with Wilkins and Hill at DT, or these guys below and Rankin. And we still have money left over to sign players, so it’s not even an either/or.

Irwin - 2M
sample- 3M
Bell- 1M
Moss- 4M
Geisiki-3M
Gaither - 3M



We were sitting on a pile of cap space and we upgraded at S and TE, and will most likely be losing Tee. Does this even seem possible? Oh forgot to mention we have no RT.

(03-15-2024, 10:55 AM)packerbacker Wrote: Hey Wyche! How you been buddy?

Alright my man, hope you're doing well.

(03-15-2024, 02:14 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Agreed. With so much cap space, we managed it horribly. Here is $16M right here. You’re telling me we can’t lock up Tee with that (adding to his 21M cap)
? Or, even better, instead of getting rankins for $13 per, give Christian Wilkins $28 with the 13 from Rankin and 15 from These guys below. Are we a better team with Wilkins and Hill at DT, or these guys below and Rankin. And we still have money left over to sign players, so it’s not even an either/or.

Irwin - 2M
sample- 3M
Bell- 1M
Moss- 4M
Geisiki-3M
Gaither - 3M



We were sitting on a pile of cap space and we upgraded at S and TE, and will most likely be losing Tee. Does this even seem possible? Oh forgot to mention we have no RT.

I don’t even know where to start. Are you saying you rather have signed Wilkins and no one listed above? Our TE room would be empty, our RB more expensive (tbd on production), and some other veteran contributors/leaders to the team?

In a vacuum I do understand your frustration, but until we see how that money is allocated… hard to say if we have done a good job or not. This FO will never get into a bad cap situation… period. Maybe an extension for tee is going to come, but they need to see what available cap that they have this year. Same goes for Chase, but with him having two years left… much less important to 2024 Cap.

If Christian Wilkins was the end all/be all like some are saying… wouldn’t they have locked him up like the chiefs locked up
Chris jones?

This is getting ridiculous. Obviously they are doing a targeted Free Agency and when you look at ALL the stats on the players signed you see they speak to problem areas that bit us big time last season.

Stone speaks specifically to the constant brain dead secondary play (bad angles, out of alignment, miscommunication) that was THE cause of the defensive collapse. We weren't physically beaten by offenses we just had constant communication and alignment issues causing explosive plays. Bell speaks to this also - the IQ and leadership quotients in the secondary room have gone way up in Free Agency.

Rankins directly addresses the interior pass rush we have lacked since Ogunjobi left. We now have a tandem for inside pass rush (Rankins and Hill) instead of Hill and no one else. When we had Hill and Og they gave us 12.5 sacks from the inside.

For all the love Mixon gets (and deserves in many ways), he does have problems in his game at this stage in his career. He is terrible as a pass blocker and has had balance issues (going down to first contact and not making people miss) his whole career - he has never been a hard to tackle back. Moss again directly speaks to these - he IS a good pass protector and IS hard to tackle and DOES gets good YAC.

Even Gesicki speaks to a need for another mismatch slot receiver. Tart when he comes in is an effective NT and continues the rebuild of the IDL into a unit that has capable players in all phases of the rotation and less injury history.

This approach makes a lot more sense than blowing big bag on a name because it is centered on getting players that have ability and are scheme fits and speak to gaps we had.

(03-15-2024, 02:33 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I don’t even know where to start. Are you saying you rather have signed Wilkins and no one listed above? Our TE room would be empty, our RB more expensive (tbd on production), and some other veteran contributors/leaders to the team?

In a vacuum I do understand your frustration, but until we see how that money is allocated… hard to say if we have done a good job or not. This FO will never get into a bad cap situation… period. Maybe an extension for tee is going to come, but they need to see what available cap that they have this year. Same goes for Chase, but with him having two years left… much less important to 2024 Cap.

If Christian Wilkins was the end all/be all like some are saying… wouldn’t they have locked him up like the chiefs locked up
Chris jones?

Dolphins are still over the Cap, they had no chance to resign him.


But yes, I’m saying I’d rather have Wilkins than all those players. However it wouldn’t even had to have been either or. We still have what, 20M left?


My point more so was, we signed all these cheap players that won’t make the same impact as 1 starting DT who is a force.


We have 10 draft picks? We can fill the roster with those picks. If SB is our goal, especially considering were basically renting Tee for 1 year, we need impact players, not a 3M TE on a 1 year deal, or a 4th safety, or a special teams linebacker. My main complaint is roster management. We’re managing the cap just fine, but I don’t think we’re gearing up for a 1-2 year SB window. Feels like we’re trying to just be competitive again. In which case, do we need a WR for 1 year only at 21M? Either sign him or trade him, at this point. If we went all in, then the franchise tag makes sense. It just seems like we don’t have direction.

But I get it. I’m sure the front office feels with a healthy Burrow, next year will be better. Which it will, no doubt. But making a SB is extremely difficult and you have to build an all star team. Right now we have 4 all stars. Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Hendrickson. I don’t believe that’s enough. I’d rather have 2 more all stars and less “fill the room” guys.

(03-15-2024, 10:38 AM)jj22 Wrote: You don't? How can you say that after the class of 2020 and 2021 for the Bengals (if you choose to ignore the rest of the league).

I can say that because the bengals have been the anomaly. They HAVE been batting at a high clip with free agents they have brought in. An article praising them in this regard was just published.

It’s just not typical that it works out so well. I stand by my comment.

https://fox40.com/sports/sports-illustrated/4eca21d4/the-12-worst-nfl-free-agent-signings-of-2023/

(03-15-2024, 02:45 PM)Joelist Wrote: This is getting ridiculous. Obviously they are doing a targeted Free Agency and when you look at ALL the stats on the players signed you see they speak to problem areas that bit us big time last season.

Stone speaks specifically to the constant brain dead secondary play (bad angles, out of alignment, miscommunication) that was THE cause of the defensive collapse. We weren't physically beaten by offenses we just had constant communication and alignment issues causing explosive plays. Bell speaks to this also - the IQ and leadership quotients in the secondary room have gone way up in Free Agency.

Rankins directly addresses the interior pass rush we have lacked since Ogunjobi left. We now have a tandem for inside pass rush (Rankins and Hill) instead of Hill and no one else. When we had Hill and Og they gave us 12.5 sacks from the inside.

For all the love Mixon gets (and deserves in many ways), he does have problems in his game at this stage in his career. He is terrible as a pass blocker and has had balance issues (going down to first contact and not making people miss) his whole career - he has never been a hard to tackle back. Moss again directly speaks to these - he IS a good pass protector and IS hard to tackle and DOES gets good YAC.

Even Gesicki speaks to a need for another mismatch slot receiver. Tart when he comes in is an effective NT and continues the rebuild of the IDL into a unit that has capable players in all phases of the rotation and less injury history.

This approach makes a lot more sense than blowing big bag on a name because it is centered on getting players that have ability and are scheme fits and speak to gaps we had.

You’re looking at what the added. What about what they didn’t add?

We lost our starting RT and starting CB with no replacement yet. I don’t think any RT they find will be better than Jonah was, and he wasn’t even that good. Do you not think the O line is important? It’s possible we get a better Cb still.

We couldn’t stop the run last year and we lost at the line of scrimmage. Reader was good at that. We needed to retain him AND add a rushing DT like rankins. We didn’t give one of our best players a new contract extension, Tee.

It’s easy to pinpoint the moves we made and say, hey look we improved in those areas. But did we improve at RT, DT, CB? Is S, RB, TE more important to a teams success than DT, OT and CB?

(03-15-2024, 02:48 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: Dolphins are still over the Cap, they had no chance to resign him.


But yes, I’m saying I’d rather have Wilkins than all those players. However it wouldn’t even had to have been either or. We still have what, 20M left?


My point more so was, we signed all these cheap players that won’t make the same impact as 1 starting DT who is a force.


We have 10 draft picks? We can fill the roster with those picks. If SB is our goal, especially considering were basically renting Tee for 1 year, we need impact players, not a 3M TE on a 1 year deal, or a 4th safety, or a special teams linebacker. My main complaint is roster management. We’re managing the cap just fine, but I don’t think we’re gearing up for a 1-2 year SB window. Feels like we’re trying to just be competitive again. In which case, do we need a WR for 1 year only at 21M? Either sign him or trade him, at this point. If we went all in, then the franchise tag makes sense. It just seems like we don’t have direction.

But I get it. I’m sure the front office feels with a healthy Burrow, next year will be better. Which it will, no doubt. But making a SB is extremely difficult and you have to build an all star team. Right now we have 4 all stars. Burrow, Chase, Higgins, Hendrickson. I don’t believe that’s enough. I’d rather have 2 more all stars and less “fill the room” guys.

Bro, outside of the players you listed… the SB roster wasn’t much, if any better. Sure we have downgraded in spots but our OL has brought in Brown, Karras and Cappa.

The chiefs last year had mahomes, jones and kelce. Without looking it up, who caught the GW Super Bowl TD?

Each of the last two years, the “all star teams” fell to a balanced team with the best QB.

(03-15-2024, 02:54 PM)Ell Prez Wrote: You’re looking at what the added. What about what they didn’t add?

We lost our starting RT and starting CB with no replacement yet. I don’t think any RT they find will be better than Jonah was, and he wasn’t even that good. Do you not think the O line is important? It’s possible we get a better Cb still.

We couldn’t stop the run last year and we lost at the line of scrimmage. Reader was good at that. We needed to retain him AND add a rushing DT like rankins. We didn’t give one of our best players a new contract extension, Tee.

It’s easy to pinpoint the moves we made and say, hey look we improved in those areas. But did we improve at RT, DT, CB? Is S, RB, TE more important to a teams success than DT, OT and CB?

RT, unlikely with a FA. But not a serious downgrade, IMO. A rookie may end up being better than Jonah.
DT, TBD. The DT room may be an overall better rotation when all said and done. Reader was great in the +\- 50% snaps he played. But depth is key here.
CB- still many CBs available for 1 year rentals - Stephon Gilmore, Xavier Howard, and tre white. Not sure we will sign any, but the improved safety position allows secondary flexibility already.


You need to Relax.

Browns hire Vrabel.

(03-15-2024, 02:56 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: Bro, outside of the players you listed… the SB roster wasn’t much, if any better. Sure we have downgraded in spots but our OL has brought in Brown, Karras and Cappa.

The chiefs last year had mahomes, jones and kelce. Without looking it up, who caught the GW Super Bowl TD?

Each of the last two years, the “all star teams” fell to a balanced team with the best QB.

I think that roster was better top to bottom. KC has Sneed and Humphreys who are both damn good. And other pieces like Willie gay. And when you have the best QB in the league, you can get by with less.

I believe it was Micole Hardman who caught it. Not sure what that proves. The play design was perfect. He was wide open in the flat. Had nothing to do with the route run or the catcher. Drew sample could have caught that pass for a TD.

I think I understand the Bengals going for good, but second-tier, players in free agency rather than the expensive all-pros. If you invest a lot of money, and that person gets injured, then you have set the franchise back big time. The Bills went all out for Von Miller. He was great until he got injured and then the rest of that season and the entire last season were just a waste of money.

It's hard to see premier players signing elsewhere--especially when entering free agency hoping for those players. But the Bengals are building depth with some pretty good players -- just not the top players.

The one exception of concern for me is the RT. They need to hit on that position, and I wouldn't mind spending money to secure protection for Joe Burrow.

(03-15-2024, 03:00 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: RT, unlikely with a FA. But not a serious downgrade, IMO. A rookie may end up being better than Jonah.
DT, TBD. The DT room may be an overall better rotation when all said and done. Reader was great in the +\- 50% snaps he played. But depth is key here.
CB- still many CBs available for 1 year rentals - Stephon Gilmore, Xavier Howard, and tre white. Not sure we will sign any, but the improved safety position allows secondary flexibility already.


You need to Relax.

Not a serious downgrade at RT? I know we all hate on Jonah, but he’s not better than Jackson Carmen or Cody Ford? Or Bekton? Or not better than the 2 (forget their names) RT who hit free agency? What if there is a run on OT and we miss out at 18. You good rolling with Carmen at RT? What if we decide there’s a can’t miss prospect at 18 and it’s not OT?


CB can possibly get better. DT is not better. We have Hill and Rankins under contract.