A lot of talk of Bengals afraid to be aggressive adding free agents for various reasons. It is no secret Bengals hate dead cap money. Other teams like Ravens in our division are very aggressive.

In 2024, Ravens have designated Odell Beckam a post June 1st cap casualty. He was cut, he was not a free agent. They also have a free agent Kevin Zeitler who if not resigned has a lot of dead money.


Beckham originally signed a one-year deal with the Ravens worth up to $18 million during the 2023 NFL offseason.


That said, the team attached four void years to his original contract. That allowed the Ravens to prorate Beckham's $13.835 million signing bonus over five years rather than one year and lowered his cap hit to $4.932 million in 2023.

That said, the Ravens were set to have a dead-cap hit of $11.068 million in 2024 as Beckham became a free agent. Baltimore preferred not to absorb that all at once and negotiated with Beckham to defray that salary cap charge.

$11 million in dead money, they can use 5.5 million in 2024 and then 7.5 million in 2025.

FYI, this 5.5 million is not listed yet in their dead cap space for 2024.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/

Zeitler has a cap hit of 4,3 million in dead money in 2024 and is listed.

As of now, Ravens do not have a lot of cap space and they have 3 holes on their OL. They lost both starting guards in Simpson and Zeitler and traded their RT to create 2024 cap space. Look at Henry's contract and a lot of dead cap space so they leveraged the future banking on Henry being a Raven in 2025.

Will they be the same team or better in 2024? On paper, I would say they have a ton of holes to fill without a lot of cap space to do it.

2 Teams with 2 different methods. I would argue the Bengals have a better plan for not only 2024, but 2025 and beyond.

Those who are panicking in mid-March our roster is in trouble, look around the league and most teams have at least 2 major holes to fill, if not more.

(03-16-2024, 01:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Ravens got back to playoffs last year for first time in last few years. They lost in 1st round of playoffs.

Ravens have been in the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years.

They had a bye in the 1st round of playoffs and beat the Texans in the 2nd round. They lost to the Chiefs in the AFCC.

(03-16-2024, 01:41 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ravens have been in the playoffs 5 of the last 6 years.

They had a bye in the 1st round of playoffs and beat the Texans in the 2nd round. They lost to the Chiefs in the AFCC.

My bad, you are correct. My point though is Ravens have not sniffed a Super Bowl in a long time. Bengals have 1 Super Bowl. 2 teams with 2 different methods achieving similar results.

Also, in 2024 they have a lot of holes to fill, 3 on the OL alone with little to no cap space. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2025/all/cincinnati-bengals//

2025 Free Agents will have some important decisions there also

(03-16-2024, 01:37 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: A lot of talk of Bengals afraid to be aggressive adding free agents for various reasons. It is no secret Bengals hate dead cap money. Other teams like Ravens in our division are very aggressive.

In 2024, Ravens have designated Odell Beckam a post June 1st cap casualty. He was cut, he was not a free agent. They also have a free agent Kevin Zeitler who if not resigned has a lot of dead money.


Beckham originally signed a one-year deal with the Ravens worth up to $18 million during the 2023 NFL offseason.


That said, the team attached four void years to his original contract. That allowed the Ravens to prorate Beckham's $13.835 million signing bonus over five years rather than one year and lowered his cap hit to $4.932 million in 2023.

That said, the Ravens were set to have a dead-cap hit of $11.068 million in 2024 as Beckham became a free agent. Baltimore preferred not to absorb that all at once and negotiated with Beckham to defray that salary cap charge.

$11 million in dead money, they can use 5.5 million in 2024 and then 7.5 million in 2025.

FYI, this 5.5 million is not listed yet in their dead cap space for 2024.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/cap/

Zeitler has a cap hit of 4,3 million in dead money in 2024 and is listed.

As of now, Ravens do not have a lot of cap space and they have 3 holes on their OL. They lost both starting guards in Simpson and Zeitler and traded their RT to create 2024 cap space. Look at Henry's contract and a lot of dead cap space so they leveraged the future banking on Henry being a Raven in 2025.

Ravens got back to playoffs last year for first time in last few years. They lost in 1st round of playoffs. Will they be the same team or better in 2024? On paper, I would say they have a ton of holes to fill without a lot of cap space to do it.

2 Teams with 2 different methods. I would argue the Bengals have a better plan for not only 2024, but 2025 and beyond.

Those who are panicking in mid-March our roster is in trouble, look around the league and most teams have at least 2 major holes to fill, if not more.

My response is reckless like the Bills, Chargers, is stupid. Being ridiculously conservative isn’t good either. They’ve got to realize that nailing the draft is the only way to be able to manage the salary cap with a mega dollar QB. Watching the overpay of Jonah, Mixon, and Reader is going to always happen. You are going to lose key players and pay too much for the really good ones. It’s just not sustainable.

The TE Gesicki one year again? I’m okay with some degree of conservatism but they are heading to having a huge cap space left over.I know they are running scared when Burrow’s contract kicks in and they need to re-sign Chase. I wish they’d gone to a team needing a QB traded Browning and Tee and whatever possible to move up in the draft or add several.

(03-16-2024, 01:54 PM)Goalpost Wrote: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2025/all/cincinnati-bengals//

2025 Free Agents will have some important decisions there also

No doubt, we have decisions to be made. I think in case of Hilton, his replacement is on the roster due to his age he may not be a priority.

Chase is under contract as Bengals exercised his 5th year option.

Trey and others still have to be addressed.

I would say we have a ton of cap space in 2025 right now. Other teams are in the same situation as we will be with free agents, but they do not have the cap space.

The draft and player development are a key to replacing expiring contracts. 

(03-16-2024, 01:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: My bad, you are correct. My point though is Ravens have not sniffed a Super Bowl in a long time. Bengals have 1 Super Bowl. 2 teams with 2 different methods achieving similar results.

Also, in 2024 they have a lot of holes to fill, 3 on the OL alone with little to no cap space. 

1 Super Bowl Loss. I would take a 2012 SB Win over a 2021 SB Loss.

The Ravens have been to the playoffs in 15 of the 28 seasons they've existed, won at least 1 playoff game in 10 of those 15 seasons, and won 2 SBs. 

They also draft very well. The Ravens are a very well-run organization. The Bengals need to change their ways a bit more to actually try to get the most talent on the team they can fit within the rules of the salary cap.

(03-16-2024, 02:00 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: My response is reckless like the Bills, Chargers, is stupid. Being ridiculously conservative isn’t good either. They’ve got to realize that nailing the draft is the only way to be able to manage the salary cap with a mega dollar QB. Watching the overpay of Jonah, Mixon, and Reader is going to always happen. You are going to lose key players and pay too much for the really good ones. It’s just not sustainable.

The TE Gesicki one year again? I’m okay with some degree of conservatism but they are heading to having a huge cap space left over.I know they are running scared when Burrow’s contract kicks in and they need to re-sign Chase. I wish they’d gone to a team needing a QB traded Browning and Tee and whatever possible to move up in the draft or add several.

It is week 1 of FA, it is a long process. It is not just the FA's available now, some teams will have cap casualties. Some teams will have draft casualties (draft a replacement for a vet and then dump him).

I would argue we are not done in 2024 adding players as you are suggesting. 

(03-16-2024, 02:11 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1 Super Bowl Loss. I would take a 2012 SB Win over a 2021 SB Loss.

The Ravens have been to the playoffs in 15 of the 28 seasons they've existed, won at least 1 playoff game in 10 of those 15 seasons, and won 2 SBs. 

They also draft very well. The Ravens are a very well-run organization. The Bengals need to change their ways a bit more to actually try to get the most talent on the team they can fit within the rules of the salary cap.

Agree completely. You have to have some aggressiveness to sustain success. We’re trying to ride a couple of high draft picks on rookie deals to success. They ponied up they cash to Joey B the same way the Reds ponied up to Joey V. They have no problem paying 1 star that will fill the stands and sell hope. But they aren’t going to go spend dollars on a big supporting cast.

Every year we hear about all the Bengals cap space and every year the Bengals somehow turn that into having little money to spend. Then we hear about how team X is gonna really feel that aggressive spending a year or 2 down the line and it never happens. Everyone else is just more creative.

(03-16-2024, 02:53 PM)Billy_Bengal Wrote: Agree completely. You have to have some aggressiveness to sustain success. We’re trying to ride a couple of high draft picks on rookie deals to success. They ponied up they cash to Joey B the same way the Reds ponied up to Joey V. They have no problem paying 1 star that will fill the stands and sell hope. But they aren’t going to go spend dollars on a big supporting cast.

Every year we hear about all the Bengals cap space and every year the Bengals somehow turn that into having little money to spend. Then we hear about how team X is gonna really feel that aggressive spending a year or 2 down the line and it never happens. Everyone else is just more creative.

Everyone else is more creative. What is the end result? Bengals have one of the best playoff and regular season records the past 3 years. 

So, name every team that has had more success with their creativity the past 3 years. I assume you say all since that was what you said in this post. 

(03-16-2024, 02:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: It is week 1 of FA, it is a long process. It is not just the FA's available now, some teams will have cap casualties. Some teams will have draft casualties (draft a replacement for a vet and then dump him).

I would argue we are not done in 2024 adding players as you are suggesting. 

True…. But do you see some solid additions based on what’s out there? I don’t. The Bengals have dug in on absolutely not overpaying for keeping their own players and signing costly free agents that are stars. Orlando Brown fell in their lap. They are like a couple who refuses to go out and eat because since the pandemic restaurant prices are 20% more. When was the last time in the draft we had to find 2 starters? We need a DT ( there’s 1 Sweat) and a RT (we should be good there). We also need a corner possibly. I’m sorry I’m not as positive as normal. I wasn’t critical of releasing Mixon (shocker). I’m okay with finding a RT in the draft. There’s going to be a good one at 18. But losing Reader bothers me. I’ve mentioned I’d like to have seen them trade Tee and Browning for a much better draft. I think they could have moved up and got a second rounder.

(03-16-2024, 03:15 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: True…. But do you see some solid additions based on what’s out there? I don’t. The Bengals have dug in on absolutely not overpaying for keeping their own players and signing costly free agents that are stars. Orlando Brown fell in their lap. They are like a couple who refuses to go out and eat because since the pandemic restaurant prices are 20% more. When was the last time in the draft we had to find 2 starters? We need a DT ( there’s 1 Sweat) and a RT (we should be good there). We also need a corner possibly. I’m sorry I’m not as positive as normal. I wasn’t critical of releasing Mixon (shocker). I’m okay with finding a RT in the draft. There’s going to be a good one at 18. But losing Reader bothers me. I’ve mentioned I’d like to have seen them trade Tee and Browning for a much better draft. I think they could have moved up and got a second rounder.

So, your answer is to trade a very good starting WR, lose our slot receiver and find replacements in the draft.

I don't want to have to find one starter in the draft. I want those drafted to beat out a player on our roster to start.

Irwin or Jonah hopefully replaces Boyd. We trade Higgins and creates a huge hole at WR2. The draft can be a crap shoot, we all know that and not just for us, but most teams. 

I have not seen the Reader contract, but he is guy coming off an injury. I wish him well, but I am glad Bengals are cautious with 30-year-old vet seeking lot of guaranteed money. 

I love DJ, but his pass rushing skills were almost non-existant. 

(03-16-2024, 03:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So, your answer is to trade a very good starting WR, lose our slot receiver and find replacements in the draft.

I don't want to have to find one starter in the draft. I want those drafted to beat out a player on our roster to start.

Irwin or Jonah hopefully replaces Boyd. We trade Higgins and creates a huge hole at WR2. The draft can be a crap shoot, we all know that and not just for us, but most teams. 

I have not seen the Reader contract, but he is guy coming off an injury. I wish him well, but I am glad Bengals are cautious with 30-year-old vet seeking lot of guaranteed money. 

I love DJ, but his pass rushing skills were almost non-existant. 

I believe Reader only got $9 million guaranteed

(03-16-2024, 03:06 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Everyone else is more creative. What is the end result? Bengals have one of the best playoff and regular season records the past 3 years. 

So, name every team that has had more success with their creativity the past 3 years. I assume you say all since that was what you said in this post. 

Last year wasn’t successful. Our success relies completely on #9. A guy they got by being truly unsuccessful.

Who cares what the ravens did. We haven’t been to the superbowl in 2 years and we didn’t win. And we missed the playoffs. We had 70m in cap space and adding Stone, Gesinki, Rankins; while losing Reader, Williams, Chido does not make this team a Super Bowl winning team.

It really simply comes down to that. Do the additions minus the losses make us a superbowl team? If we take off our Bengals blinders, it’s pretty blinding the answer is no.

I agree with many of y'all even if you disagree with each other. There are good points on both sides of the argument. I think it always comes down to a balance. You can't fall off to either extreme lest you cut off your nose to spite your face.

In the end, the only real sustainable strategy is to draft and develop well. Look at the guys we signed this year. I think most (if not all?) are effectively on one-year deals from a cap standpoint. While that may give us flexibility it also portends our being mainstays in the rental market moving forward. As such, the draft is the one thing that needs to undergird that plan, and having the smallest scouting dept in the league does not help. I wish they'd make more of an investment there.

(03-16-2024, 03:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: ...I love DJ, but his pass rushing skills were almost non-existant. 

Reader is a nose tackle.  His job isnt to generate a bunch of sacks.  Even with that being said, if you look at Reader's pass rushing stats they are better than people give him credit for.  He is pretty good in the pass rush department.  Whoever the Bengals get to replace Reader at NT,  dont expect them to come in and have a bunch of sacks either.

(03-16-2024, 03:23 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: So, your answer is to trade a very good starting WR, lose our slot receiver and find replacements in the draft.

I don't want to have to find one starter in the draft. I want those drafted to beat out a player on our roster to start.

Irwin or Jonah hopefully replaces Boyd. We trade Higgins and creates a huge hole at WR2. The draft can be a crap shoot, we all know that and not just for us, but most teams. 

I have not seen the Reader contract, but he is guy coming off an injury. I wish him well, but I am glad Bengals are cautious with 30-year-old vet seeking lot of guaranteed money. 

I love DJ, but his pass rushing skills were almost non-existant. 

(03-16-2024, 04:15 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Reader is a nose tackle.  His job isnt to generate a bunch of sacks.  Even with that being said, if you look at Reader's pass rushing stats they are better than people give him credit for.  He is pretty good in the pass rush department.  Whoever the Bengals get to replace Reader at NT,  dont expect them to come in and have a bunch of sacks either.

007 is right. No I’m not happy with what they’d had to do with keeping Reader. But we won’t be better than they’ve been. Detroit obviously felt comfortable with his health and rehab. But as a former owner you have to keep your talent when competitors come calling at times. If the NT draft was like the OT’s I would have passed. But it’s awful. Reader didn’t want to leave. They should have kept him. He’s A+++++ locker room guy and the absolute most disruptive DT in the league. Immovable

(03-16-2024, 03:52 PM)Billy_Bengal Wrote: Last year wasn’t successful. Our success relies completely on #9. A guy they got by being truly unsuccessful.

Why does it matter how we got #9? How good are the Chiefs without Mahomes, Eagles without Hurt, Dolphins without Tua, Bills without Allen or Ravens without Jackson?

For years are lack of success kept us in mediocrity or flat out bad. Another #9 Palmer changed us until his knee was shredded and he would never be the same. Then, we had a great roster with Dalton, but an average starting NFL quarterback.

Once off their rookie deals, cap space becomes a commodity. for any NFL team. The Chiefs have lost in FA, but won big in the draft. All teams have the same amount of money to spend, Bengals spend most and roll the rest over the following year. 

(03-16-2024, 04:27 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: 007 is right. No I’m not happy with what they’d had to do with keeping Reader. But we won’t be better than they’ve been. Detroit obviously felt comfortable with his health and rehab. But as a former owner you have to keep your talent when competitors come calling at times. If the NT draft was like the OT’s I would have passed. But it’s awful. Reader didn’t want to leave. They should have kept him. He’s A+++++ locker room guy and the absolute most disruptive DT in the league. Immovable

hmmm... this is over the top

Chris Jones, Heyward, Donald, and 2 DT's Pierce and the one they signed to long term contract say otherwise.

You are also speaking of a health DJ, and younger DJ.

I wanted him back, but he has not been available due to injury also. Do you think DJ all of sudden stays healthy and available every game???

I really like DJ, but I trust our FO and coaching staff to build the best roster they can. One guy is never the key to a great roster, it is many guys who play a role.