(03-20-2024, 09:18 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Starters for the Super Bowl
LT - Williams - gave up the most sacks for two years before being moved to RT where he was still below average.
LG - Spain - never played again
C - Hopkins - never played again
RG - Adeniji - played a total of 17 Special Team snaps for Minnesota last year, currently a Brown
RT - Prince - didn't play again until 10 Special Team snaps the first two weeks last year for Atlanta before being waived

Plenty of 2021 o-linemen drafted in the 3rd and 4th round that are NFL starters today. Most of those guys above can't even get on a roster.

Really?  

Only ONE olineman drafted in the 3rd Rd of that draft out of 7 has been good.
1 had a decent yr once, 3 have been terrible, 1 has barely played and the other has never played.  The only good one was a Center taken 29 picks AFTER Ossai.

Only 1 drafted in the 4th round has been good. Of the other 3, 2 have been terrible and one never played a down.  The good one was another Center.

We have been ok at Center since then.

Ossai and Sample were NOT the issue that draft.  We missed on:
Carman
Shelvin
Smith
Hill

(03-19-2024, 07:11 PM)Joelist Wrote: Rankins impacts Carter not Hill. Hill and Rankins are the 3T rotation so to speak giving us interior pass rush. NT will likely come to us by draft and a signing.

Once again Joelist knows what's up.

(03-20-2024, 10:24 AM)J24 Wrote: If we're using hindsight then you draft Humphrey over Carmen in the 2nd and Trey Smith over Trey Hill in the 6th.


Ossai was considered a first RD prospect by many and the value was too good to pass up by Duke. Also if we're redrafting the third you probably pick Osa Odighizuwa, Milton Williams, or Alim Mcneil over Ossai.

People forget but Sample actually made a huge play in the Divisional Round that enabled us to beat the Titans  that year.

Also;I will say this! I don't think Lou has used either player right. Sample should be more of a Nickle DT and Ossai should be a Edge. For some reason they have flipped those roles.

Yes, using hindsight that is what you do.

(03-20-2024, 12:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Ossai is now healthy. If he stays that way, he will make a lot of noise this year. You read it here first.

Sure hope so, I said this last year. Ossai did play well against the Browns in the last game, caused an interception and had at 
least a couple of pressures. If he can stay healthy and gain confidence he has the talent to make a lot of noise, even if I think 
this will be Myles Murphy who makes the most noise this year.

The problem with hindsight is that it is hindsight. What if Jackson Carman had been a keeper and a starting LT while Humphrey washed out? To know both that Humphrey would succeed like he has AND that Carman would turn out only to be viable as a LT would require the ability to see the future.

If we're going to fault the team for anything on drafting here it would be more not being sure the lineman fits the system and also the constant flip flop between wide zone and gap. Add in that our offensive system is not exactly OL friendly - granted this is likely changing somewhat (they tried last year before Burrow went out) and you get a recipe for linemen not working out.

(03-20-2024, 10:24 AM)J24 Wrote: Ossai was considered a first RD prospect by many and the value was too good to pass up by Duke.

The o-line needed starters and depth, instead, they drafted backup defensive ends, then missed on Shelvin before drafting project OT D'Ante Smith. I wouldn't have had too much of a problem with either one if they hadn't signed Hendrickson or were intending on letting Hubbard walk but that's not what happened. They were working on an extension with Hubbard before the draft, maybe they wasted two valuable draft choices just to lower the price for Hubbard. I wouldn't put it past Mike Brown.

O-line after the 2020 season with an injured Rookie QB.
LT - Jonah Williams - an underwhelming 10 games in his first season after completely missing his rookie year, missed 22 of his first 32 games
LG - Michael Jordan - sigh - what a waste
C - Trey Hopkins - was on the only NFL roster that he could make and he still started 15 games
RG - Alex Redmond - reminded me of mid 90s RG Ken Blackmon as in he was only good at committing penalties and getting into fights
RT - Bobby Hart - no review needed

All that they had done in FA was sign Reilly Rieff, who actually played damn good until his injury.
So then in the draft, they draft a big Left Tackle and think that they can teach him to be a Right Guard, they draft a project late in the 4th round and a 6th round Center that has looked over matched since he got off of the plane.

Quote:People forget but Sample actually made a huge play in the Divisional Round that enabled us to beat the Titans that year.

The Titans game. The first post season game in NFL history where a QB was sacked 9 times and still won. It would've been 10 sacks, but there was a defensive penalty early in the game that negated a sack. I don't know what Sample did in the Super Bowl, but Burrow was sacked 7 more times and was hurried almost instantly on the last offensive snap of the season.

(03-20-2024, 01:08 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Really?  

Only ONE olineman drafted in the 3rd Rd of that draft out of 7 has been good.
1 had a decent yr once, 3 have been terrible, 1 has barely played and the other has never played.  The only good one was a Center taken 29 picks AFTER Ossai.

Only 1 drafted in the 4th round has been good. Of the other 3, 2 have been terrible and one never played a down.  The good one was another Center.

LOL

Yeah . . . good . . . that's still far better than what was here. Are Ossai and Sample considered ''Good''?

Quote:We have been ok at Center since then.

No. They have been only OK at Center since the following year. Karras didn't get here until 2022.

(03-19-2024, 12:49 PM)Isaac Curtis: The Real #85 Wrote: Sample is mostly a DE. Rankins a DT.

So, no.

He was always a a tweener guy who always gives good effort but all in all is replaceable IMO.
Not enough bulk for DT and not enough speed and quicks for DE...
not sure what trade value there is for him? Wasnt he a 3rd or 4th rounder?

(03-20-2024, 03:31 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: LOL

Yeah . . . good . . . that's still far better than what was here. Are Ossai and Sample considered ''Good''?

No. They have been only OK at Center since the following year. Karras didn't get here until 2022.

The fact is you were wrong in your statement, there wasnt any oline there worth drafting in the 3rd and the 4th.  

We can agree that we have been very bad at drafting the oline and dline for a decade.

(03-20-2024, 04:47 PM)casear2727 Wrote: The fact is you were wrong in your statement, there wasnt any oline there worth drafting in the 3rd and the 4th.  

We can agree that we have been very bad at drafting the oline and dline for a decade.

Your opinion is not a fact.

(03-20-2024, 06:30 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Your opinion is not a fact.

Do I need to list their snap counts, PFF Scores, Pressures, Hurries, Hits, Sacks, and Penalties, or are they just considered an opinion too?

I get the premise of your original thought, it's ok.

At what point do we start looking at the d-line coach?

Pollack draws a lot of shade, and rightfully so.

Shine that same mirror on the d-line, it's better, but not so pretty.

Something to consider.

Even more so if he is benefitting for the "genius" of Lou...

(03-20-2024, 07:53 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Do I need to list their snap counts, PFF Scores, Pressures, Hurries, Hits, Sacks, and Penalties, or are they just considered an opinion too?

I get the premise of your original thought, it's ok.

You can list whatever you want. And a little FYI . . . PFF's 'scores' are nothing but opinions.

Spain had a high PFF score in 2021
That idiot believed his high PFF score and actually thought that he was snubbed for the Pro Bowl
The next season, the Bengals moved on and not one team called the high ranking, Pro Bowl snub because PFF is nothing but just another opinion.

All of those OL drafted in the 3rd or 4th round stuck on rosters where the o-lines that were NOT considered amongst the worst in the league. 60% of the Super Bowl starters Spain, Hopkins and Prince played a grand total of 10 Special Team snaps after the Super Bowl. The Bengals depth is still so bad that all three of the damn near useless OL drafted in 2021, Carman, Smith and Hill are still on the roster.

(03-20-2024, 09:43 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: You can list whatever you want. And a little FYI . . . PFF's 'scores' are nothing but opinions.

Spain had a high PFF score in 2021
That idiot believed his high PFF score and actually thought that he was snubbed for the Pro Bowl
The next season, the Bengals moved on and not one team called the high ranking, Pro Bowl snub because PFF is nothing but just another opinion.

All of those OL drafted in the 3rd or 4th round stuck on rosters where the o-lines that were NOT considered amongst the worst in the league. 60% of the Super Bowl starters Spain, Hopkins and Prince played a grand total of 10 Special Team snaps after the Super Bowl. The Bengals depth is still so bad that all three of the damn near useless OL drafted in 2021, Carman, Smith and Hill are still on the roster.

I listed several stats other than the PFF scores.

What you are saying is so disingenuous, did you just start watching closely during the SB run?  Why did you leave off the starting guard we lost in Week 2?  Why is there no no mention of Riley Reiff?  Stop talking out of your ass.  You obviously are not nearly as informed as you think you are, do better.  

(03-20-2024, 10:22 PM)casear2727 Wrote: I listed several stats other than the PFF scores.

What you are saying is so disingenuous, did you just start watching closely during the SB run? 

No you didn't. You said you would and I said go ahead.

Quote: Why did you leave off the starting guard we lost in Week 2? 

Because listing an injured Guard actually helps my argument for drafting O-line over DE depth in 2021 but felt like more of a reach to prove a point. XSF was solid in Houston, went to Dallas and missed 13 games in two seasons, came to Cincinnati and missed 10 games in 2020.

Quote: Why is there no no mention of Riley Reiff?  Stop talking out of your ass.  You obviously are not nearly as informed as you think you are, do better.  

Irony.

Post #24

(03-20-2024, 11:35 PM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: No you didn't. You said you would and I said go ahead.

Because listing an injured Guard actually helps my argument for drafting O-line over DE depth in 2021 but felt like more of a reach to prove a point. XSF was solid in Houston, went to Dallas and missed 13 games in two seasons, came to Cincinnati and missed 10 games in 2020.

Irony.

Post #24

You have some bad takes and this was one.   I tried to be nice and agree with your premise, but you were factually wrong and now you want to die on this mountain?  You had no idea what olinemen were drafted in rounds 3 & 4.  

(03-20-2024, 08:42 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: At what point do we start looking at the d-line coach?

Pollack draws a lot of shade, and rightfully so.

Shine that same mirror on the d-line, it's better, but not so pretty.

Something to consider.

Even more so if he is benefitting for the "genius" of Lou...

D line coach? Last year Hubbard, Ossai, Hendrickson were all playing hurt. I have zero problem with the D line when healthy.

(03-21-2024, 08:49 AM)Sled21 Wrote: D line coach? Last year Hubbard, Ossai, Hendrickson were all playing hurt. I have zero problem with the D line when healthy.

The starting DL was really good when healthy, but 3/4 of them came to the team via free agency.  I'm just guessing here, but what I think that he was alluding to is that the DL coach should also be scrutinized for failing to develop drafted talent.

(03-21-2024, 09:41 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The starting DL was really good when healthy, but 3/4 of them came to the team via free agency.  I'm just guessing here, but what I think that he was alluding to is that the DL coach should also be scrutinized for failing to develop drafted talent.

Ossai was hurt. Sample has gotten better each year. Carter showed improvement. Who's not developing? They all won't be starting quality.

(03-21-2024, 09:44 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Ossai was hurt. Sample has gotten better each year. Carter showed improvement. Who's not developing? They all won't be starting quality.

Ossai, Sample, Carter, Falele, Tupou. What do they all have in common?  They were all guys selected by the team in recent years, whom many of us were excited for their arrival, yet none have ever developed enough to even have a sniff of being in a conversation about challenging for a starting spot. 

(03-21-2024, 10:14 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Ossai, Sample, Carter, Falele, Tupou. What do they all have in common?  They were all guys selected by the team in recent years, whom many of us were excited for their arrival, yet none have ever developed enough to even have a sniff of being in a conversation about challenging for a starting spot. 

Falele and  Topou were not draft picks ....both were  FA signings. I believe Topou went undrafted and Falele was a 4th rounder from Jags that eventually was cut 

Sample is great

Carter is the one whose likely gonna struggle to make the team

He’s gonna have to make it as a 3T and i don’t think he’s beating out anyone we pick at 18 or 49 if we do go 3T.


Carter only hope is having a great preseason and hoping want to save money and not buy 4th DT